Free folk Daemon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Hey all, do you think that Tyrion has worked out Jon's parentage? When I read this:"Don't look at me that way, bastard. I know your secret. You've dreamt the same kind of dreams.""No," Jon Snow, said, horrified. "I wouldn't ..."(chapter 13, Tyrion II, AGOT)I thought that, obviously, he was referring directly to dragon dreams, but also to the secret of Jon's Targaryen father. Now, Tyrion could be only teasing Jon that he may also have dreamt of dragons, and that in itself is not an indication of Targaryen or Old Valyrian blood, but to me, there is something in the way GRRM includes "bastard", "secret" and an indirect reference to dragons in Tyrion's line and has Jon's reaction being one of horror and, in my view, denial, that adds more to this part of their conversation than Jon simply being horrified that Tyrion has had dreams of riding a dragon and burning his father and sister. What did you make of this conversation? Also, if anyone has any Tyrion quotes from elsewhere in the books which may point to the idea that he has guessed who Jon's parents are, please fire them over (the dragons would love that...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 No. As much as Tyrion is smart, he is not THAT smart. Plus, Tyrion has been speaking about ambition, being above his family, something Jon, as highborn bastard, could easily relate to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Yeah, doubtful. But I guess anything's possible. It is fantasy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonnyscouse Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Sorry but taking that quote in context it's pretty clear Tyrion was asking Jon whether he ever dreamt of hurting his family, not whether he has dragon dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Tyrion's smart. He's not clairvoyant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJK79 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I am going to say no. He states that who ever was his mother was she left none of her in him. I don't think he even has a thought that Jon's mother is/could be Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Tyrion is referring to dreams about hurting his family. George is referring Jon's dragon dreams.Kinda like in Maester Aemon's 'love is the death of duty' speech when he says "And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms," it's actually George talking about Ned and Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 No.He may figure it out later though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordofmorning Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Nope."The boy absorbed all that in silence. He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away. Whoever his mother had been, she had left little of herself in her son." -Tyrion, AGOT If he knew , he wouldn't have thought this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I think you may be reading too much into this one. Tyrion is just talking about the hidden desire of Jon to be a lord, which would only come about to the detriment of his family members. How could Tyrion know. All of the people who were at the Tower of Joy are dead with exception of Ned & Howland Reed. Ned wouldn't tell Tyrion. So unless Tyrion came upon Reed on his way up To Winterfell when and the Reed actually told him. While this would be a GRRM thing to do, there's no evidence of it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmane Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Tyrion reads a lot. Maybe he reads this forum too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free folk Daemon Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Thanks, yeah, I see that I might have interpreted Tyrion's line before remembering the context. I agree that he wouldn't have thought the quote below if he had guessed that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, and Tyrion seems pretty honest with himself in what he is thinking, hence telling Jon about his dreams about harming Tywin and Cersei.I am going to say no. He states that who ever was his mother was she left none of her in him. I don't think he even has a thought that Jon's mother is/could be Lyanna.Nope."The boy absorbed all that in silence. He had the Stark face if not the name: long, solemn, guarded, a face that gave nothing away. Whoever his mother had been, she had left little of herself in her son." -Tyrion, AGOT If he knew , he wouldn't have thought this.I agree with the link to Aemon's speech.Tyrion is referring to dreams about hurting his family. George is referring Jon's dragon dreams.Kinda like in Maester Aemon's 'love is the death of duty' speech when he says "And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms," it's actually George talking about Ned and Jon.Which book is it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It's at the end of AGoT after Jon runs away and comes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free folk Daemon Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 Tyrion is referring to dreams about hurting his family. George is referring Jon's dragon dreams.Kinda like in Maester Aemon's 'love is the death of duty' speech when he says "And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms," it's actually George talking about Ned and Jon.Found it (chapter 60, Jon VIII, AGOT). Thanks Victarion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think most people suspect that Jon is Lyanna's daughter, there was a thread before the reset that pointed out all the commonly-known facts that any well-connected noble would be aware of that strongly hint as to his parentage. Someone wrote a really funny scene where Howland Reed is announcing that Jon is really a Targaryan and everybody is like "Yeah, we kind of suspected this and knew it when he was sent to the Wall at 14". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I more interesting question would be whether or not he thinks Aegon is really Rhaegars son, especially since Dany may hear of his existence from Tyrion first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't think anyone in Westeros, who wasn't at TOJ, knows of Jon's parentage. Not Varys, not LF, not Tyrion, nor anyone else. The only possible exception, the only one who had any way of learning the secret is the first place - would be Bloodraven using his weirnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free folk Daemon Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 I more interesting question would be whether or not he thinks Aegon is really Rhaegars son, especially since Dany may hear of his existence from Tyrion first.Thanks Arya, any thoughts? Like to hear your theory on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Thanks Arya, any thoughts? Like to hear your theory on this.Hard to say, don't have much to go on. Many of the clues that Aegon is fake are from Tyrions interactions with Ilyrio and the time spent at his mansion, so Tyrion may at least suspect it. He did tell him he looked good for a dead boy, possibly suggesting he didn't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Ok Tyrion may be smart at some things but I don't believe for one second that he is smart enough to get something like that. For example I would be more curious how LF didn't suspected that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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