Assuming R+L=J, has Tyrion worked out Jon's parentage?

[Curled Finger]

Tyrion is smart.   Moreover he's cunning.   If he thought for 1 second that Jon could be a weapon he might wield against Tywin or Cersei he would have never allowed Jon to escape his influence.   He certainly wouldn't have allowed the relationship to fall out of touch.   

[Nevets]

I would expect that LF and Varys,and probably quite a few others, have deduced the possibility that Jon is Rhaegar's son with Lyanna.  But Ned, through his steadfast silence, has created sufficient plausible deniability that taking any action is effectively impossible.  As far as they know, he really could be Jon's father, and there is no hard evidence to the contrary.  There may be suspicion, but there is no proof, or even anything they could use, such as proof that any named mother isn't really Jon's mother.  

 

[Free folk Daemon]

 

Hard to say, don't have much to go on.  Many of the clues that Aegon is fake are from Tyrions interactions with Ilyrio and the time spent at his mansion, so Tyrion may at least suspect it.  He did tell him he looked good for a dead boy, possibly suggesting he didn't buy it.

Tyrion's doubts and I think other foreshadowing of Daenerys' vision in the House of the Undying, of "A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd." (chapter 48, Daenerys IV, ACOK) seem to provide at least reasonable hints towards Aegon not being a Targaryen.

There is I think a more pointed foreshadowing of the possibility of Aegon being fake when Dany asks Ser Jorah about some of the things she saw in the House:

“A dead man in the prow of a ship, a blue rose, a banquet of blood . . . what does any of it mean, Khaleesi? A mummer’s dragon, you said. What is a mummer’s dragon, pray?”
“A cloth dragon on poles,” Dany explained. “Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight.” (chapter 63, Daenerys V, ACOK).

The references to Varys as a mummer and his support of Aegon's claim may link to this vision. There are some people whose theories hint towards Aegon being a Blackfyre through his mother, or both of his parents.

I more interesting question would be whether or not he thinks Aegon is really Rhaegars son, especially since Dany may hear of his existence from Tyrion first.

If Dany may hear about Aegon from Tyrion first, I wonder if she will think of that cloth dragon in the vision.....

[good girl]

Tyrion doesn't know he himself is a secret Targ, he has no clue about Jon Snow.

[Swordofmorning]

Tyrion doesn't know he himself is a secret Targ, he has no clue about Jon Snow.

He is not....really not.

[7-KG]

Tyrion doesn't know he himself is a secret Targ, he has no clue about Jon Snow.

He. Is. Not. A. Targaryen.  

[7-KG]

No. As much as Tyrion is smart, he is not THAT smart. Plus, Tyrion has been speaking about ambition, being above his family, something Jon, as highborn bastard, could easily relate to.

It wouldn't take a genius to figure out R+L=J, truth be told. Just some decent research regarding Lyanna, Rhaegar and Ned and BAM, you have a secret prince before you.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

He is not....really not.

He. Is. Not. A. Targaryen.  

I guess technically he's a Hill.

[Swordofmorning]

 

I guess technically he's a Hill.

Ummm, technically, he is a lannister.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Ummm, technically, he is a lannister.

You may be right. On second thought, the name Hill would be reserved only for an acknowledged bastard, and Aerys certainly never acknowledged him.

And we do have the precedent of Addam of Hull and his brother Alyn of Hull, bastards who were adopted by Corlys Velaryon, and thereafter were Addam Velaryon and Alyn Velaryon.

There certainly is a strong case to be made for Tyrion actually being Tyrion Lannister. Good call.

[Swordofmorning]

You may be right. On second thought, the name Hill would be reserved only for an acknowledged bastard, and Aerys certainly never acknowledged him.

And we do have the precedent of Addam of Hull and his brother Alyn of Hull, bastards who were adopted by Corlys Velaryon, and thereafter were Addam Velaryon and Alyn Velaryon.

There certainly is a strong case to be made for Tyrion actually being Tyrion Lannister. Good call.

Yes, thank you.

Actually, there's a thing in Westeros that people take their father's last name. And as Tywin's last name is lannister, Tyrion is a lannister.

Its fairly simple, you know.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Yes, thank you.

Actually, there's a thing in Westeros that people take their father's last name. And as Tywin's last name is lannister, Tyrion is a lannister.

Its fairly simple, you know.

I completely agree. Tywin was more of a father to Tyrion than Aerys ever was.

[Swordofmorning]

I completely agree. Tywin was more of a father to Tyrion than Aerys ever was.

Yep, you're right. Tywin is Tyrion's biological father which Aerys isn't i.e. Aerys is not Tyrion's father.

Well done.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Yep, you're right. Tywin is Tyrion's biological father which Aerys isn't i.e. Aerys is not Tyrion's father.

Well done.

I think you may be a bit confused about what we were agreeing on.

[Butterfreak]

I think if Tyrion was in a place where he had to give it much thought he probably would figure it out, or at least suspect something. Same for Littlefinger and Varys.  

They obviously can't for story purposes.

[Swordofmorning]

I think you may be a bit confused about what we were agreeing on.

Do enlighten me... 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

What is there to "work out" about Jon's parentage? As far as the miniscule number of people in Westeros who are even aware of Jon Snow's existence are concerned, there's nothing there to work out. He's a nonentity to pretty much everyone outside his immediate family and the Night's Watch (who are a bunch of nobodies on the edge of the world). There's nothing about him that causes anybody to even think about his origins, much less question them.

We readers know there's a big fat mystery there, but your average Westerosi doesn't know - nor care.

 

[Free folk Daemon]

What is there to "work out" about Jon's parentage? As far as the miniscule number of people in Westeros who are even aware of Jon Snow's existence are concerned, there's nothing there to work out. He's a nonentity to pretty much everyone outside his immediate family and the Night's Watch (who are a bunch of nobodies on the edge of the world). There's nothing about him that causes anybody to even think about his origins, much less question them.

We readers know there's a big fat mystery there, but your average Westerosi doesn't know - nor care.

 

 

Yeah, don't think the average Westerosi would care about who Jon's parents were or would care if they knew. Some of the nobility, perhaps. Maybe some in Essos. It makes me think of Ser Jorah's speech to Daenerys in AGOT about the people of Westeros:

'The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are.' (chapter 23, Daenerys III, AGOT)

I think they may care about what Jon did, rather than who he is, if they hear in the future in Westeros that a threat of permanent winter is coming and that helped in preventing it. Then again, it may be that his actions will never be sung about or recorded within Westeros, which would be an interesting development. This is assuming GRRM resurrects him and he does have a part to play in checking the advance of the white walkers.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

What is there to "work out" about Jon's parentage? As far as the miniscule number of people in Westeros who are even aware of Jon Snow's existence are concerned, there's nothing there to work out. He's a nonentity to pretty much everyone outside his immediate family and the Night's Watch (who are a bunch of nobodies on the edge of the world). There's nothing about him that causes anybody to even think about his origins, much less question them.

We readers know there's a big fat mystery there, but your average Westerosi doesn't know - nor care.

Exactly.

A lord had a bastard. Nothing remarkable about that. Why would anyone care about him? And what would ever prompt Tyrion into questioning Jon's origins? Why on earth would he ever doubt that he's Eddard's? He's got no clue nor incentive to do that. Not Tyrion, nor anyone else in-story so far.

[Taenqyrhae]

What is there to "work out" about Jon's parentage? As far as the miniscule number of people in Westeros who are even aware of Jon Snow's existence are concerned, there's nothing there to work out. He's a nonentity to pretty much everyone outside his immediate family and the Night's Watch (who are a bunch of nobodies on the edge of the world). There's nothing about him that causes anybody to even think about his origins, much less question them.

We readers know there's a big fat mystery there, but your average Westerosi doesn't know - nor care.

 

Why don't people gossip about the nobility in Westeros?  All kinds of strange details about the aristocracy have been known, made up, and imagined throughout history.  If the King of England had a bastard in his court whose mother's identity was a mystery to everyone, it would have been speculated about endlessly - especially if that king's young sister had been abducted and held captive for a year by another ruler and died under mysterious circumstances about the time this bastard would have been born.  There would be multiple theories regarding who the mother might be and at least some people would consider it was Lyanna - but you can't have the people who have guessed correctly thinking about it in their POV if you want to keep that under wraps.

I think GRRM has omitted many POV characters thinking about Jon's parentage for literary reasons, to keep the surprise from the reader - I think he left out a character's thoughts a couple of other places to hide a secret - re-read Tyrion's conversation with the mercenary paymaster with the assumption that the paymaster is Tyrion's long lost uncle and they both recognize each other immediately - the odd conversation about his name makes much more sense if you realize both characters know the other is using an assumed name and are agreeing to keep each other's secret in a way that wouldn't reveal it to any eavesdroppers.  This may have happened also with the omission of Septa Lemore's eye color in an otherwise very detailed physical description.