[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] The Expanse on SyFy

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I liked the show, but definitely think it's dragged at points. They could have done the first book in 13 40 minute episodes, but instead opt for half the book in 10.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

Can someone point out to me why people think this series is so great? I am enjoying it and I think it's good but im just not seeing why this series is great and i've watched each episode, some more than once to see if I missed something special.

The book may be clouding my judgement but I'd still say there's a lot going for it. It's different from other sci-fi shows in that it's solar-system based and actually considers gravity. I also like all the fun angles they go for with the ships launching/moving too. Interesting characters and strong acting. The production values are good too.

I guess it wins because there isn't another space-based show on at the moment too. But it's no better or worse than Walking Dead,for example, as a genre show. It's actually a lot more consistent than that show's first season.

[sifth]

I liked the show, but definitely think it's dragged at points. They could have done the first book in 13 40 minute episodes, but instead opt for half the book in 10.

It feels like they did a little more than half the book.

I agree though, season 1 should have been the first book.

[Red Tiger]

51 minutes ago, red snow said:

The book may be clouding my judgement but I'd still say there's a lot going for it. It's different from other sci-fi shows in that it's solar-system based and actually considers gravity. I also like all the fun angles they go for with the ships launching/moving too. Interesting characters and strong acting. The production values are good too.

I guess it wins because there isn't another space-based show on at the moment too. But it's no better or worse than Walking Dead,for example, as a genre show. It's actually a lot more consistent than that show's first season.

Could never get into Walking Dead

[Werthead]

So, with 9 novels in the series does that mean the TV show is going to go for 18 seasons? Or are they going to ramp up the pacing massively? I'm guessing they chose this pace so they could:

Have more of Thomas Jane as an active protagonist before turning into HeadMiller.

I like the slow-burn pace and it's gone down well in some quarters, but reading reviews across the net it looks like it's put a hell of a lot of people off (not to mention that SyFy's marketing for the show has been lamentably, insanely poor and their failure to get significant international distribution is a huge problem).

Quote

Can someone point out to me why people think this series is so great? I am enjoying it and I think it's good but im just not seeing why this series is great and i've watched each episode, some more than once to see if I missed something special.

The original fascination with the books I think began because Daniel (and occasionally Ty) posts on the board, both are part of the greater GRRM fan/writing community and because Daniel, certainly, was under-recognised in the genre after writing one of the best fantasy series of the last decade. And the Expanse books are good. Not outstanding, not brilliant, but very solid with some good characters and a fairly unusual, original structure for a space opera.

The TV show, to my mind, is much better than the books (and the books are pretty decent to begin with) with some very clever juggling of the plot ingredients from the books to make the story work better as an ongoing TV series. In particular, they've done some clever stuff with overlapping elements and characters formerly restricted to just one novel to open up the universe more. Also, we haven't really had a decent space opera TV show since BSG ended in 2009 (and the way it ended with pretty shitty), and certainly not one that nods to real-life physics as much as this since at least Babylon 5 ended in 1998. That makes it a reasonably big deal.

There are a few more space operas coming down the pipe, most notably the Foundation series on HBO, so we'll see how The Expanse stacks up over the long run.

[Arkash]

I really hope many people will binge-watch through the season now it's over (and that SyFy will do a better job at the promotion). I think the "casual viewer" will benefit from having the entire season to watch in a row.

Myself, havent read the books but planning on starting them in the coming months, I loved it, rewatched it quite a lot, and sure as hell look forward to next season !

[red snow]

10 minutes ago, Arkash said:

I really hope many people will binge-watch through the season now it's over (and that SyFy will do a better job at the promotion). I think the "casual viewer" will benefit from having the entire season to watch in a row.

Myself, havent read the books but planning on starting them in the coming months, I loved it, rewatched it quite a lot, and sure as hell look forward to next season !

It's good to have some insight from someone who hasn't read the books.

With regards to comments on whether each book is going to be two seasons I doubt it will be so arbitrary. For one season one spent a fair amount of time handling new material, obviously with Avasarala but there were a lot of other little diversions. I don't recall the book covering the haulers being pulled over by martian cops (given the POV structure of the books I'm almost certain this didn't happen) which i felt added a lot to the belter perspective. Similarly there was Fred's backstory.

This season probably had to be a bit slower to do the world-building. Now that's done they can probably move faster. Season 2 is 13 episodes - I think they could manage to close book 1 and book 2. It all depends on how whether they'll include additional stories. We still don't know if the plan is to follow the books religiously or diverge as the show moves along (like GOT did) either. I think book 2 could be tweaked and streamlined for TV. If they reach Cibola Burn I think they'll make changes there as I'm unsure there's a full season's worth of TV there (this can be made up for with some stories featuring other core characters).

I was left scratching my head at how the last episode was called "Leviathan wakes". I always felt that was a reference to the Nauvoo but I guess it could also be a reference to the protomolecule.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Speaking of promotion...I saw an ad on Syfy that said this is like "Game of Thrones in space".. 

[red snow]

24 minutes ago, Jack Bauer 24 said:

Speaking of promotion...I saw an ad on Syfy that said this is like "Game of Thrones is space".. 

It's the easiest and most sensible comparison if you want to grab attention. Even if it's lazy and not really accurate. Luckily "lost" isn't popular any more

 

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

It's good to have some insight from someone who hasn't read the books.

With regards to comments on whether each book is going to be two seasons I doubt it will be so arbitrary. For one season one spent a fair amount of time handling new material, obviously with Avasarala but there were a lot of other little diversions. I don't recall the book covering the haulers being pulled over by martian cops (given the POV structure of the books I'm almost certain this didn't happen) which i felt added a lot to the belter perspective. Similarly there was Fred's backstory.

This season probably had to be a bit slower to do the world-building. Now that's done they can probably move faster. Season 2 is 13 episodes - I think they could manage to close book 1 and book 2. It all depends on how whether they'll include additional stories. We still don't know if the plan is to follow the books religiously or diverge as the show moves along (like GOT did) either. I think book 2 could be tweaked and streamlined for TV. If they reach Cibola Burn I think they'll make changes there as I'm unsure there's a full season's worth of TV there (this can be made up for with some stories featuring other core characters).

I was left scratching my head at how the last episode was called "Leviathan wakes". I always felt that was a reference to the Nauvoo but I guess it could also be a reference to the protomolecule.

I agree about the possible direction of the show. While the crew of the Roci have their little adventure as in Cibola Burn, they could do a POV of one of the Belter extremists setting up things in motion for what's coming in Nemesis Games.

"Leviathan Wakes" phrase has always been, for me, about the protomolecule taking over Eros, and becoming sentient in a way, which was the last shot of the episode.

[Steinman]

2 hours ago, red snow said:

It's good to have some insight from someone who hasn't read the books.

With regards to comments on whether each book is going to be two seasons I doubt it will be so arbitrary. For one season one spent a fair amount of time handling new material, obviously with Avasarala but there were a lot of other little diversions. I don't recall the book covering the haulers being pulled over by martian cops (given the POV structure of the books I'm almost certain this didn't happen) which i felt added a lot to the belter perspective. Similarly there was Fred's backstory.

This season probably had to be a bit slower to do the world-building. Now that's done they can probably move faster. Season 2 is 13 episodes - I think they could manage to close book 1 and book 2. It all depends on how whether they'll include additional stories. We still don't know if the plan is to follow the books religiously or diverge as the show moves along (like GOT did) either. I think book 2 could be tweaked and streamlined for TV. If they reach Cibola Burn I think they'll make changes there as I'm unsure there's a full season's worth of TV there (this can be made up for with some stories featuring other core characters).

I was left scratching my head at how the last episode was called "Leviathan wakes". I always felt that was a reference to the Nauvoo but I guess it could also be a reference to the protomolecule.

I agree very much with this. During the 10 episodes of this season they pulled in Avasarala and did a lot of worldbuilding. They also set up Jules Pierre Mao as the main villain so we're not going to have them chasing both Protogen and then Mao-Kwik as a separate mystery. I think the planet-altering stuff will happen around episode 3 of S2 and then Caliban's War will take place over the remaining episodes. Most books released thus far would probably fit in a 10-12 episode season.

[Mack Kilimaro]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

I like the slow-burn pace and it's gone down well in some quarters, but reading reviews across the net it looks like it's put a hell of a lot of people off (not to mention that SyFy's marketing for the show has been lamentably, insanely poor and their failure to get significant international distribution is a huge problem).

Of course it's different strokes for different folks and all, but I find those reviews complaining about the pace of the show to be frustrating. The guy who has been reviewing the show for the AV Club for instance continually brings up the pace stuff, and maybe he has a point about some of it, but his reviews have been sprinkled with statements that suggest he hasn't really been paying much attention to some subtle or not-so-subtle things that are going on.

Then again, at least that site is reviewing it at all. My other go-to for low-level thoughts on a show with occasionally insightful or interesting discussion by commenters is Previously.TV (the descendant of TWOP of old) hasn't been bothering to have review/recap pages for The Expanse.

What can ya do? I think the show deserves more attention than it's gotten but that's the way it goes. Hopefully Season 2 is able to attract a bigger audience and we can keep getting more of this show.

[Astromech]

I was very pleased with Julie Mao flashbacks. They were almost necessary considering the first two episodes were available before Christmas. Having read the fist two books in the series, I had no problem following the show, but I can imagine non-readers being a bit confused.

The Eros Incident was handled quite well. I was hoping for a Proto-Julie/Miller conversation, but I'm confident it will be handled next season. Miller's rampage on Eros was one of my favorite parts of LW. I felt the show handled it perfectly. I also really loved seeing Naomi, Amos and Alex's escape which wasn't covered in the novel. Amos just gets better and better.

Like others in the thread, I think the show will be much more fluid with covering book material, i.e., each season will cover events in various books. I actually prefer this to covering a book per season.

Overall, I enjoyed the first season. It was a bit exposition heavy in parts, but most series are exposition heavy in the first season. With this series that exposition is necessary to convey the conspiracy that sets all of the events in motion. I also loved the fx in this show. Syfy didn't seem to skimp and I'm looking forward to next season. I really hope we see Bobbie Draper next season.

 

[Pliskin]

9 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Can someone point out to me why people think this series is so great? I am enjoying it and I think it's good but im just not seeing why this series is great and i've watched each episode, some more than once to see if I missed something special.

It's too slow and really confusing. I liked some parts of it (like episode 4 which was great), but overall quite disappointed.

The books are great though, you should try it out.

Speaking of the books, I'm really shocked that they'd reveal in the show Mao's being everything that soon. And since Errinwright is shown working with him, reveal therefore that the high command of Earth is behind everything. I mean we're only halfway through book 1, and this is normally addressed at the end of book 2 (even though it was quite straightforward). The whole unknown enemy face thing is gone. For season 2 (and 3 ?), we'll already know who are the conspirators. I don't understand their choice of adaptation here.

Ok, and let's say I'm really pissed not to see vomit zombies in the finale. It's like tuning in for The Walking Dead, and not seeing any zombies. Oh wait, they did it too with Fear The Walking Dead. But really, it's not an example to follow.

[Kalbear]

Well, we knew that someone on Earth was behind it from like the 9th chapter of LW, when we find out the drive signatures were Earth-based. They're compressing the protogen and the earth conspiracy into one which makes perfect sense. 

We also knew in the books that the Maos were involved from the getgo, because they were warning Julie to bug out and that something big was going to go down. I can't remember if that happened in the show. 

[Pliskin]

Yes, we knew that Mao's company was involved somehow, more or less. We didn't know though that he was behind it all.

I don't see how it makes perfect sense. I'd rather have some mystery than no mystery at all. The fact that the enemy was invisible and unknown was one of the strengths of the books.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Yes, we knew that Mao's company was involved somehow, more or less. We didn't know though that he was behind it all.

I don't see how it makes perfect sense. I'd rather have some mystery than no mystery at all. The fact that the enemy was invisible and unknown was one of the strengths of the books.

Well, the enemy wasn't invisible or unknown for particularly long in either case. We find out about protogen very early in book 1, for instance. We find out about the earth conspiracy in book 2 about midway through as well, including who is involved. We don't get the resolution until later, but we know about it very early. 

And Mao wasn't behind it all, not exactly. He was part of it. Just like he is here, no? 

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

And Mao wasn't behind it all, not exactly. He was part of it. Just like he is here, no? 

Let's say he's behind everything on the private funds part. Of course, there are his military and UN friends that we could put on the same level.

[Red Tiger]

50 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

It's too slow and really confusing. I liked some parts of it (like episode 4 which was great), but overall quite disappointed.

The books are great though, you should try it out.

Will do

[Corvinus85]

21 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Well, the enemy wasn't invisible or unknown for particularly long in either case. We find out about protogen very early in book 1, for instance. We find out about the earth conspiracy in book 2 about midway through as well, including who is involved. We don't get the resolution until later, but we know about it very early. 

And Mao wasn't behind it all, not exactly. He was part of it. Just like he is here, no? 

 

14 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Let's say he's behind everything on the private funds part. Of course, there are his military and UN friends that we could put on the same level.

I think it's pretty clear that the black suit guy who ordered the black ops team and Johnson's arrest is involved. So you have your U.N. gov part of the conspiracy there, Mao as the private sector portion, and later an admiral will be implicated. 

Considering that we've only got to put some faces to the conspirators in the finale, I don't see how this dispelled the entire mystery.