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[BOOK & TV SPOILERS] The Expanse on SyFy


Xray the Enforcer

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2 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Yes, although IIRC they were building those with the kids with the immune system disorder. (Could be wrong -- I found it difficult to pay close attention to parts of Caliban's War because Prax was so goddamned tedious.)

That rings a bell. I was trying to remember the name of the tedious character of Prax. Some are better best forgotten but his link with the kids as monsters may at least look cool (although the best scene was the one with Bobbie fighting then on a moon)

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4 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Yes, although IIRC they were building those with the kids with the immune system disorder. (Could be wrong -- I found it difficult to pay close attention to parts of Caliban's War because Prax was so goddamned tedious.)

Correct, the baddies were experimenting with the protomolecule on the Ganymede kids with the weakened immune systems because it would adapt/evolve more quickly on them.

Poor Prax, no love for the mopey types :(

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28 minutes ago, karaddin said:

The ones in CW didn't still look like people though, they were space monsters. Although I pictured them as a type of undead from WoW!

True. I do wonder if a cost effective way of approaching them though is to simply have them as super tough humans who have spores on them. Think of it in terms of how Star Trek: Voyager had CGI borgkillers but then quickly established humanoid "interface" versions of them because it was simply cheaper (and CGI was ropey back then). So they could establish the super-soldier monsters in full-on mode but concealed in darkness with brief glimpses of them. But when they aren't in monster mode they are more humanoid.

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I think that they knew they couldn't do 10 episodes and do LW without it being confusing as hell. So they figured out where they wanted to be - the Eros awakening (which sounds like some kind of Kama Sutra position) and then figured out where they needed to go based on that. 

Which meant we got some filler that felt weird, like the Butcher of Anderson station bits, or the Kenzo/martian pickup part. Or stretching out them getting the ship back together in the second episode instead of them heading pretty much immediately to the Donny. 

They also wanted to bring Avasarala in earlier, and that meant we got a lot of odd stuff with her. Perhaps they saw it as an opportunity to add her earlier given that they were going to do 10 eps anyway? I'm not sure. 

I do kind of feel like the pace isn't great, though I think that it'll be helped tremendously if you binge it instead of the weekly episode viewing. I also think that they needed to make certain things a bit more clear - the Lionel Polanski thing was totally bizarre, as was them heading to the Anubis first (and that is another thing that they didn't need to actually do). Heck, I'm still a bit fuzzy on why the Scopuli was going to intercept the Anubis or even how that was found out in the first place. 

I don't think focus groups are needed. I think they just need to tighten things up a smidgen. It is taking something like the arc of B5 season 1, with some more filler than desired and a lot of setup and backstory. I think with more eps and less backstory needed we'll have a bit more good pace. 

I also think that one of the triumphs is the actual translation of the show. It doesn't feel cheesy or cheap most of the time. It doesn't feel cramped in a way that doesn't make sense (unlike Doctor Who, for example). The characters feel as good as they did in the books, and are rewarded quite a bit for knowing more about them earlier - especially Amos. 

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Something was missing here... We needed a bit more information to rather easily and logically connects all the dots, and while Episode 9 did its share part of explaining, a lot of things are rather blurry. Perhaps that was intentional but it is a bit messy and all over the place. With all said and done, it was a great ride and I have enjoyed it. I will put the series on my "must read" list.

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I think this first season is an investment, they have more episodes to do future seasons and less that needs to be set up in them because of back story that's been established here. I'm scared about the audience, but I think if it's made available to the streaming platforms it will find them.

I get that some of the plot details would be confusing to a show only watcher, but I thought it made sense as a book reader at least, and they were attempting to clear it up with the Julie flashbacks.

We have Miller working out that the scopuli was an OPA ship looking to take a ship carrying research material from Phoebe. This already makes sense, but then we see Julie using insider info from her dad to know a weapon was being transported too so there's an extra layer there. They went to the Anubis first because that's where Fred got a message from rather than checking into the flophouse under the name, which given the timeline in the show I'm assuming happened after they left. 

In the book is unclear if the Anubis is the one that kills the Cant, Julie doesn't hear combat sounds iirc. In the show it's explicit that it is, and the way ep9 played out I got the impression she died only a very short time before they arrived. 

What I'm unclear on is whether they were always targeting the Cant. The flashback suggests they were, but that using the scopuli as bait was improvisation so I wonder what the initial plan was.

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Quote

In the book is unclear if the Anubis is the one that kills the Cant, Julie doesn't hear combat sounds iirc. In the show it's explicit that it is, and the way ep9 played out I got the impression she died only a very short time before they arrived. 

From what Abraham said on twitter it sounds like the Anubis was always intended to kill the Cant, and the timeline in the books wasn't clear. From the order we read it it couldn't be the Anubis, but from what he's implying it was that the Anubis killed and sabotaged the Scopuli and took prisoners, waited for someone to answer the distress call (and in the books this would have been a requirement, not something to leave by chance), killed the Cant and did a high burn away, then along the way had Mao escape after the protomolecule ended up being a total asshat. It was always going to head to Eros. 

Quote

What I'm unclear on is whether they were always targeting the Cant. The flashback suggests they were, but that us

ing the scopuli as bait was improvisation so I wonder what the initial plan was.

Yeah. I think the intention was that they knew the Cant's flight path and space and knew that it'd be heading by there fairly soon, and planned accordingly. I don't think that that is nearly as clear. Especially since in the show it's implied the Anubis is near the shuttle when it's shooting at the Cant, but in the book it's hiding right by the Cant and is no where near the shuttle. The show implies that the Anubis is making a choice to not kill the shuttle, but in the book the implication is that it either didn't notice the shuttle or made a choice. 

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Looking at the season as a whole I think the only weak episode was episode 2. Characters that felt off to me and bad dialogue (count the number of "whoa whoa whoa"'s and "hey hey hey"'s in that episode). I may like the characters better when I rewatch the whole season knowing what they did with them in the end.

Some have complained that they didn't like the pace in episodes 6 and 7 but I think the drama we got there was just as tense as most action scenes. This was also when the characters started clicking more for me (especially Amos).

The only thing I think viewers should still be confused about is how much Anderson Dawes is involved in everything (I've read the books and I don't remember). They haven't made clear whether he really was the one behind the takeover of Star Helix like Miller thought (I think it was Protogen) and it's unclear why he left Julie hanging. If he didn't view her as a belter in the end he sure did seem to admire her earlier.

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Kal - I still read it as leaving the shuttle alive on purpose in the book, Holden beams the crew photos at them and they respond with a targeting lock then leave the shuttle alive. The survivors are part of starting the war. My confusion in the show was whether the original plan was just to pop the Cant or if they were always going to use bait of some kind to do it, and maybe even knew the scopuli was coming. There were shown as reacting awfully fast so maybe did know.

On Dawes leaving Julie hanging, it could just be as simple as everything had gone to shit and he couldn't get there, or the messages weren't getting through. Or he did leave her hanging and that will be explained more.

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5 hours ago, Astromech said:

Article critiquing novel adaptations of The Expanse and The Magicians on Syfy:

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/4/10912274/the-expanse-finale-recap-syfy-magicians

(quoting from article)

The Magicians, for all its fantastical trappings, is primarily a story about a collection of characters who find themselves in the middle of a larger story but are always more worried about their own personal failings. The Expanse is the story of an epic quest. The characters might be developed through that quest, but solving the mystery is what truly matters.

Am I way off base here or is he completely backwards in this assessment? To me, The Magicians (less so the first book, admittedly) is more about the epic quest whereas The Expanse is the people who are caught up in the larger story. Holden is just a dude who gets swept up in all of this. He doesn't know what's going on or what he's doing really, which is kind of the whole deal he has going on with Miller constantly telling him, "Doors and corners!"

I don't agree with a lot of what he says about The Magicians books actually. I don't know if I read the same books he did.

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1 hour ago, Mack Kilimaro said:

Am I way off base here or is he completely backwards in this assessment? To me, The Magicians (less so the first book, admittedly) is more about the epic quest whereas The Expanse is the people who are caught up in the larger story. Holden is just a dude who gets swept up in all of this. He doesn't know what's going on or what he's doing really, which is kind of the whole deal he has going on with Miller constantly telling him, "Doors and corners!"

I don't agree with a lot of what he says about The Magicians books actually. I don't know if I read the same books he did.

No, I agree with your opinion concerning The Expanse. I've never read The Magicians series.

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Ok, Jonathan Banks as the XO on the Cant -- was there a point to his scene?  Why such a big actor for such a small role?  I'm wondering if they are going to make it that he was hired / brainwashed / co-opted to make sure the Cant took the bait, and if he found out what really was going to happen and had his breakdown because of that.  I don't remember if he was transported off the ship, but if so we might see him again and find out about another link in the plot.

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15 hours ago, karaddin said:

The ones in CW didn't still look like people though, they were space monsters. Although I pictured them as a type of undead from WoW!

Hmmm. I am pretty sure they were bipedal and also had two arms, so not really that far off of a human body matrix. Still horrifying, of course. Anyway, I thought they were using those kids because they were 1) immunocompromised and thus the protomolecule could work faster and 2) easier to control before and after transformation. Again, this is all going off my imperfect memory of the book.

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10 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Ok, Jonathan Banks as the XO on the Cant -- was there a point to his scene?  Why such a big actor for such a small role?  I'm wondering if they are going to make it that he was hired / brainwashed / co-opted to make sure the Cant took the bait, and if he found out what really was going to happen and had his breakdown because of that.  I don't remember if he was transported off the ship, but if so we might see him again and find out about another link in the plot.

I think the major purpose it served was to get viewers wondering why people would be working on something like the Cant and also to start character building for Holden.  It's sort of a streamlined way to show that Holden isn't ambitious and isn't seeking out being in charge of others.  Plus, it's just a good scene that immediately introduces the viewers to the harshness and claustrophobia of space and the type of lives the Belters and those who choose to live in space lead.  

I don't think there was any indication that Banks went anywhere other than Shed's infirmary, so he should have still been on the ship when it was bombed.  It's possible that Banks' character could have been involved in something to do with the plot and we'd see him again in flashback.  After all, there's probably a shady history that led him to working on the Cant.  However, I don't think that's necessary just because it's Banks.  He has a long history of doing small roles for tv shows.  Even with his prominent parts in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, I see him or hear his voice all over the place in random tiny bit parts.  He and Roger Cross are everywhere.  

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He was on so many shows last year that it's nearly weird when he isn't in one.  I was almost surprised he didn't hop over from the Dark Matter set to film a scene for The Expanse.  Though maybe they didn't want audiences to get confused and start theorizing that these characters existed in the same universe.  Glad his Orphan Black character is returning.  

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9 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Hmmm. I am pretty sure they were bipedal and also had two arms, so not really that far off of a human body matrix. Still horrifying, of course. Anyway, I thought they were using those kids because they were 1) immunocompromised and thus the protomolecule could work faster and 2) easier to control before and after transformation. Again, this is all going off my imperfect memory of the book.

Hmm I'm not actually sure on that front, I just meant basing the CW space monsters on the appearance of the spy would be a dramatic change removing some of the horror. I thought you were right until I stopped to think, I don't think they actually abducted that many kids and there were several hundred of the monsters that got shot at Mars etc? Maybe the kids are more biomaterials to kick start the growth and less the frame for the monsters? I need to read again.

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