Is Ned the greatest swordsman in Westeros? Or one of them?

[Swordofmorning]

I see people are making their own headcanon here. GRRM already stated Ned wasn't much a fighter, but more a battle commander. He (Ned) himself stated he would have been killed by Arthur Dayne if not for Howland Reed, I think it's enough to conclude it wasn't a fair fight if the fact they were 7v3 wasn't enough. Brandon was the fighter of House Stark.

 

Those who say Ned was in league with the likes of Ser Arthur, Jaime, Barristan are too much influenced by the show.

[Lord of Westeros]

I can name many who are better : Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Greatjon Umber, Garlan Tyrell, Sandor Clegane,Gregor Clegane, Qhorin Halfhand, 

[Bloody Ben Blackwood]

 

Ned and Rodrick got hammered in the winterfell practice yard by Royce when he was taking  his son Waymar to the wall. So two on one they couldn't defeat an older warrior. Though Brohn Royce is supposed to be a beast.

 

Aaaah.. He was just holding back, because if he had to fight Bronze Royce for real, he did not want him to know what he could do 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

I can name many who are better : Qhorin Halfhand, 

Doubtful. While his prowess might be impressive amongst the 1,000 mainly poorly trained men of the Watch I doubt he counts as amongst the best in the North, let alone Westeros.

 

 

[Lord Fauntleroy]

He is never considered a stand-out swordsman. We can assume that he had "standard" Lordly training, so he was likely better than average at swordplay compared to lowborn people but not great as far as Lords are considered. 

[WolfgangII]

I can name many who are better : Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Greatjon Umber, Garlan Tyrell, Sandor Clegane,Gregor Clegane, Qhorin Halfhand, 

I don't think Gregor Clegane is a very skilled swordsman, he is just too big and strong.

I think Garlan Tyrell is above average, but in the league of Jaime and Barristan.

The currently elite swordsman I will say is Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Lyn Corbray, Yohn Royce, Sandor Clegane.

The elite not-swordsman fighters: Robert Baratheon, Oberyn Martell, Drago. (All dead)

The historic elite swordsman: Arthur Dayne, Aemon Targaryen, Daemon Targaryen, Daemon Blackfyre, Visenya Targaryen, The Young Falcon, The White Bull.

 

[Keltess]

I don't think Ned  ENJOYED killing as some of the others like Robert or Gregor did. I think he looked on it as an execution (no pun intended) of his duty.

[The Skinner]

Yea Ned is an average fighter, I'm sure he could hold his own and was decent, maybe a little faster when he was young but he's never noted the to exceptional. Everyone thought that he killed Arthur Dayne but the truth is we don't know. Maybe Ned took on a wounded Arthur, or engaged him after he killed one of his friends, maybe he ate his fuckin wheaties that morning and was actually keeping up. But in the end, even Ned said that he would've been killed if not for Howland Reed. 

[Kal-L]

I don't think Gregor Clegane is a very skilled swordsman, he is just too big and strong.

I think Garlan Tyrell is above average, but in the league of Jaime and Barristan.

The currently elite swordsman I will say is Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Lyn Corbray, Yohn Royce, Sandor Clegane.

The elite not-swordsman fighters: Robert Baratheon, Oberyn Martell, Drago. (All dead)

The historic elite swordsman: Arthur Dayne, Aemon Targaryen, Daemon Targaryen, Daemon Blackfyre, Visenya Targaryen, The Young Falcon, The White Bull.

 

Garlan Tyrell is not just above average, actually GRRM stated he and his little brother were at the top of Westeros with the likes of Jaime, the Hound,etc.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

how else to explain that he and 5 & 1/3 northerners can kill 3 super swordsmen,

Very good question. It's not like Ned had someone who we known that he wasd capable of using magic and could make castles appear and disappear.

[the Greenleif Stark]

Ned's the Eli Manning of Westeros

[mediterraneo]

I can name many who are better : Jaime Lannister, Barristan Selmy, Greatjon Umber, Garlan Tyrell, Sandor Clegane,Gregor Clegane, Qhorin Halfhand, 

I'd add Brienne of Tarth, Loras Tyrell and Areo Hotah for sure. Oberyn Martell too, as we have other dead people in this list.
Possibly Gerold Dayne (is that Darkstar's name, isn't it?) Victarion and the aforementioned Bronze Yohn Royce, and some of the old Kingsguard, including poor Arys Oakheart. Also Robert Baratheon and maybe even Rhaegar Targaryen, during Eddard's life span.
And many others!
But this doesn't mean that in a real fight they would automatically win and live. Arthur Dayne was way better than most of them and nevertheless he died facing Ned.

[Tijgy]

I think GRRM said Ned was "competent"; meaning certainly he was not the greatest swordsman in Westeros. (And IMO he was also not one of the worst swordfighters).  

While he might not be the greatest swordsmans, he has many other great qualities  . Some people like to say he was great at sword fighting because this would make Ned more heroic or something like that, while actually this has no completely no importance. 

 

[melx]

Very good question. It's not like Ned had someone who we known that he wasd capable of using magic and could make castles appear and disappear.

there was a topic (lost due missing data) and i argue same thing:frogman used some dirty trick(magic) to kill Arthur...but fanboys assured  me that i was wrong and they show me what is what,so let me do same for you:

there is no proof that dirty tricks were used but there is undisputed evidence that fight was fair :Ned's honor and fact that frogman is Neds friend and that makes him good & honorable as well

here is what really happened at TOJ: 7 brave&good&honorable northmen were attacked by 3 kingsguard, attack was unexpected and they were tiered from long ride and from killing evil loyalists,so 5 of them died along with 2 evil KG, Ned told frogman to step aside (that was unnecessary since frogman would never interfere in honorable two men duel)  and fought Artur one on one, Ned was way better fighter and he disarmed Arthur and throw him on the ground,then Ned being so good & honorable offered his hand to defeated opponent but servant of evil & mad Targaryens pulled hidden knife and wounded Ned who was then left without choice and had to kill Arthur, only after duel was over frogman saved Ned by healing his wound ......

(after TOJ exemplary chivalry they went to Ashara,she was madly in-love with Ned,but he told her that he found love of his life:Cat(fact that she was price for her fathers swords aside),Ashara started to cry and wanted to kill herself (mind you not for lost of her brother but for loosing Ned) and then frogman entered the picture:tall & handsome & charming he comforted Ashara ,she knew then that she found new love too and went to swamp with frogman to live happily ever after...)

[Samson]

I am thinking Arthur was much more impressed with Ned Stark's swordfighting than he had expected, or perhaps he didn't even have an opinion one-way or the other, simply was surprised to be met with such a skilled competitor.

 

At that point Howland Reed stepped in like, "Stop this madness in the name of chivalry and honor !  " And they did their secret Tower of Joy stuff, who knows what exactly- Arthur Dayne becoming Halfhand at The Wall, Arthur fleeing across the sea to Essos, Arthur going into hiding, etc.

 

** I will note, I DO NOT expect that to happen in the show, because the show sucks anymore when it comes to actual storylines and such.  But I think it might be more closely related to the facts in the books whenever they come out.

 

 

I am taking Barristan Selmy and Arthur Dayne as the two best swordfighters in Westeros.  And will abide by GRRMs declaration that they'd be quite evenly matched, with The Sword of The Morning getting the advantage when using The Sword of The Morning.

 

I'd put Jaime Lannister and Loras Tyrell next- pre-injury Jaime of course.  I'd give Jaime the advantage of experience and actual tactical fighting, and Loras the advantage of relative youth and perhaps more tourney-skill (Loras having spent much time prancing around Highgarden practicing his tourney moves etc.  Jaime having fought in a few actual wars.)

 

I'd put Ned up right under Jaime and Loras in actual sword-fighting skill, with the caveat that I think Ned could kill either of them in an actual swordfight- because there's a huge difference between technical skill/competition flair and actual combat.  I was a wrestler for many years in my youth, and I went to several quite famous wrestling camps each summer.  I'd meet kids who were very skilled technically and extremely good at wrestling, and when we would practice they would be very good and skilled but if we had actual matches, I could beat them because there is a difference - a big difference.  I think Ned and to a certain extent warriors of the North in general have that edge, that toughness and combat mindset that is much different than tourney-champion fighters.  Basically the difference between grizzled, battle-hardened actual 75th Ranger Regiment Rangers and parade-ground soldiers with fancy uniforms and equipment.

 

I think that it's obvious Jon Snow has real, real talent and probably honed it well the last few years.  Had he fought by Robb Stark's side through The War of the Five Kings I think we would have seen a young general being made and legendary fighting from him.  Who knows what happens now.

 

 

There are plenty of others who could get some consideration...... Darkstar is an obvious choice.  Oberyn Martell croaked but he was obviously very skilled....  Bronn , all he does is win and kill people lol.  The Hound also pretty ridiculous with a sword.

[John Doe]

He is not.

[tallTale]

As far as pure technical skill I would say no, but Ned is a proven battle hardened warrior who has fought some of the best fighers in westeros and lived to tell about it. i would rank him among the best ever-just not in the legendary category.

[Whitering]

I like the average fighter thing, like an average fighter, who leads from the front, making it through a war and tons of battles, without major injury is average. There is a large gulf between great and average, and Ned is surely somewhere within that gulf, but better than average.

The term average is largely misused, but even here I am not using in a statistical sense. He'd probably line up with with some of Gregor's higher ranked men, but have better equipment.

[Humble Maester]

Ned is good but nothing exceptional like the likes of Loras or Jaime. He could whop the ass of peasant #534 anyday but against other people trained by masters-at-arms he'd not dominate.

Here's couple of quotes from GRRM about Ned's fighting capabilities.

I think Boromir was more of a warrior than Ned, Ned was more of a a lord, a ruler, a diplomat, a general etc. (slight paraphrasing).

About Benjen Stark

I was wondering if you would comment on Benjen Stark's fighting ability. Is he on a level with Brandon, or is he more like Ned?

Depends on the kind of fight you had in mind.

Brandon was the best of the Starks with sword in hand, and the best jouster as well. But Benjen has other skills that serve him well as a ranger... and Ned was likely the best battle commander.

[Wavey Sauce]

Not even close. Not even close to the best in the North