LordImp Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Cersei will have a trial by combat to decide her faith and UnGregor will be her champion. Who will be the faiths champion? We have the popular theory Cleganebowl , that Sandor will be the faiths champion and kill UnGregor. According to rumors Ian McShanes character will bring back a person from death , and im certain this person is the Hound. If the Cleganebowl is indeed happening , do you think it will be this season? Cause if the Hound returns it will most likely be in the Riverlands , and he has to be revaled to us and then get from RL to Kings landing. IMO its not enough time for this unless it happens early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It's possible this was just a mistake, but when Cersei confessed to the High Sparrow she admitted she was guilty of adultery whilst Robert was still alive. So there doesn't need to be a trial because she has already admitted to committing treason. Will the trial cover separate charges or the same ones she has already confessed to? If so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Mountains Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Incest with Jaime would presumably be the high crime she would be charged with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 It's possible this was just a mistake, but when Cersei confessed to the High Sparrow she admitted she was guilty of adultery whilst Robert was still alive. So there doesn't need to be a trial because she has already admitted to committing treason. Will the trial cover separate charges or the same ones she has already confessed to? If so, why?she confessed which means shes guilty. And she will demand a trial by combat to be relased , just like Tyrion after Joffreys death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw4950 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 It's possible this was just a mistake, but when Cersei confessed to the High Sparrow she admitted she was guilty of adultery whilst Robert was still alive. So there doesn't need to be a trial because she has already admitted to committing treason. Will the trial cover separate charges or the same ones she has already confessed to? If so, why?iirc she only confesses to enough so she can be released. she confesses sleeping around but denies having a hand in roberts death or anything that osney says. this pretty much gets her kind of off the hook. she cant be executed for adultery but she definitely can for murdering people. her trial is to judge whether she had a hand in any murders and framing margaery, hence she has an opportunity to request a trial by combat. thats the main difference between this and other trials. on the surface it seems like people can do whatever they want and then hide behind the trial by combat. think neds execution for example. ned confessed to treason so there was nothing to be done. when joffrey made it apparent he was going to execute ned he couldnt just say 'hey, wait i want a trial by combat!' because he already confessed to serious accusations. on the other hand tyrion could request it since he refused to admit any guilt in either brans assassination attempt or murdering joffrey so his 'trial' was still open to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 iirc she only confesses to enough so she can be released. she confesses sleeping around but denies having a hand in roberts death or anything that osney says. this pretty much gets her kind of off the hook. she cant be executed for adultery but she definitely can for murdering people. her trial is to judge whether she had a hand in any murders and framing margaery, hence she has an opportunity to request a trial by combat. thats the main difference between this and other trials. on the surface it seems like people can do whatever they want and then hide behind the trial by combat. think neds execution for example. ned confessed to treason so there was nothing to be done. when joffrey made it apparent he was going to execute ned he couldnt just say 'hey, wait i want a trial by combat!' because he already confessed to serious accusations. on the other hand tyrion could request it since he refused to admit any guilt in either brans assassination attempt or murdering joffrey so his 'trial' was still open to interpretation."Sleeping around" for a queen was considered high treason, so there's no reason for a trial by combat on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 iirc she only confesses to enough so she can be released. she confesses sleeping around but denies having a hand in roberts death or anything that osney says. this pretty much gets her kind of off the hook. she cant be executed for adultery but she definitely can for murdering people. her trial is to judge whether she had a hand in any murders and framing margaery, hence she has an opportunity to request a trial by combat. thats the main difference between this and other trials. on the surface it seems like people can do whatever they want and then hide behind the trial by combat. think neds execution for example. ned confessed to treason so there was nothing to be done. when joffrey made it apparent he was going to execute ned he couldnt just say 'hey, wait i want a trial by combat!' because he already confessed to serious accusations. on the other hand tyrion could request it since he refused to admit any guilt in either brans assassination attempt or murdering joffrey so his 'trial' was still open to interpretation.Yes, but I was under the assumption that being unfaithful to the King (whilst he is alive) is considered high treason, because it raises the possibility that she is trying to place a child not of the King's blood on the throne (which is of course exactly what Cersei has done). That was the law for just about every historical medieval kingdom in history and high treason carries the death penalty, usually very publicly and violently. Look at Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard, the two most famous examples in English history. Book Cersei is very careful to never confess to sleeping with anyone other than Robert whilst Robert was still alive.In this case Cersei confessed to being guilty. There doesn't need to be a trial by combat to determine guilt or innocence because Cersei has already settled that. I'm chalking this one up to the writers screwing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw4950 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 "Sleeping around" for a queen was considered high treason, so there's no reason for a trial by combat on the show.im probably splitting hairs here but was she technically queen when she slept with lancel? i thought that was part of his reward for switching roberts wine with the stronger stuff before going hunting. i always figured that since joffrey was now king at this point, it was just adultery that cersei commits by sleeping with a couple other characters. its definitely frowned upon for what she did but robert was dead at the time she started sleeping with lancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 im probably splitting hairs here but was she technically queen when she slept with lancel? i thought that was part of his reward for switching roberts wine with the stronger stuff before going hunting. i always figured that since joffrey was now king at this point, it was just adultery that cersei commits by sleeping with a couple other characters. its definitely frowned upon for what she did but robert was dead at the time she started sleeping with lancel. In the books and (weirdly) what was shown in the show, Cersei did not sleep with Lancel until after Robert's death. However, from this scene here: "I lay with a man outside the bonds of marriage, I confess.""Name him"."Lancel Lannister". "Your cousin? And the King's squire?""I was lonely and afraid""You had a husband""A husband off whoring every chance he got"The first part is taken straight from the books, but the second part implies very clearly that the adultery took place whilst Robert was still alive and well, otherwise the Cersei would have corrected the High Sparrow when he said "you had a husband". She wouldn't have mentioned his whoring otherwise because that information wouldn't be relevant if she slept with Lancel after his death. This is high treason. We never actually saw her committing adultery while Robert was alive, but that's what she confessed to here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw4950 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 In the books and (weirdly) what was shown in the show, Cersei did not sleep with Lancel until after Robert's death. However, from this scene here: "I lay with a man outside the bonds of marriage, I confess.""Name him"."Lancel Lannister". "Your cousin? And the King's squire?""I was lonely and afraid""You had a husband""A husband off whoring every chance he got"The first part is taken straight from the books, but the second part implies very clearly that the adultery took place whilst Robert was still alive and well, otherwise the Cersei would have corrected the High Sparrow when he said "you had a husband". She wouldn't have mentioned his whoring otherwise because that information wouldn't be relevant if she slept with Lancel after his death. This is high treason. We never actually saw her committing adultery while Robert was alive, but that's what she confessed to here.ah ok. ya, i missed that part. i always figured that it wasnt a more serious crime since robert was already dead. well, im on board. plot hole lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Cersie had to admit to something but no one would call Lancel the father of her bastards as he was young and barely of age to "get it up" while the kids were older. Cersie just cannot admit to Jaime although by now, everyone believes it to be true but due to the wars and the power that would be lost if this was admitted to or acted upon is enormous. A major upheaval. Cersei will somehow win any trial she has, that just seems to be the way this story flows. Margeary though, if a trial in the books, I bet she loses. Show, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 It's not a question of knowing if Lancel is old enough to be her children's father, it's just that, by medieval law, adultery for a queen was punishable by death, no matter who was the man or when it was done.Of course, the show will twist this saying that Westeros is not Medieval Europe, but this is just another example of a random change done without thinking of the consequences. (Hitting someone of royal blood was also a serious offense, and we've seen how it ended with Bronn and Trystane). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 It's not a question of knowing if Lancel is old enough to be her children's father, it's just that, by medieval law, adultery for a queen was punishable by death, no matter who was the man or when it was done.Of course, the show will twist this saying that Westeros is not Medieval Europe, but this is just another example of a random change done without thinking of the consequences. (Hitting someone of royal blood was also a serious offense, and we've seen how it ended with Bronn and Trystane). I agree but Cersei is somewhat falling back upon her Ace Card by calling for trial by combat with Ser Robert Strong (UN-Gregor) as her champion. Cersei knows that she cannot win a trial by evidence and argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I agree but Cersei is somewhat falling back upon her Ace Card by calling for trial by combat with Ser Robert Strong (UN-Gregor) as her champion. Cersei knows that she cannot win a trial by evidence and argument. You call for a trial by combat when you refuse to admit that you're guilty. When you've already confessed, there's no point. It's like saying "I did it but let the gods decide if I did it or not". If you could ask for a trial by combat after confessing, why didn't Ned ask for one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andorion Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 There were several charges and she confessed to some. She was also accused of Roberts murder to which she claimed innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 There were several charges and she confessed to some. She was also accused of Roberts murder to which she claimed innocence. She confessed to one that is punishable by death. So who cares about the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andorion Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 She confessed to one that is punishable by death. So who cares about the rest.The High Septon wanted a trial because of the confusion and doubt her partial confession would create. The walk was the atonement for the confessed sinsRelevant sections:“Even so,” His High Holiness went on, “these are terrible charges, and the realm must know the truth of them. If Your Grace has told it true, no doubt a trial will prove your innocence.”A trial, still. “I have confessed—”“—to certain sins, aye. Others you deny. Your trial will separate the truths from the falsehoods. I shall ask the Seven to forgive the sins you have confessed and pray that you be found innocent of these other accusations.” “I have spoken with His High Holiness. He will not release you until you have atoned for your sins.”“I have confessed.”“Atoned, I said. Before the city. A walk—”“No.” She knew what her uncle was about to say, and she did not want to hear it. “Never. Tell him that, if you speak again. I am a queen, not some dockside whore.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudo Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 The High Septon wanted a trial because of the confusion and doubt her partial confession would create. The walk was the atonement for the confessed sinsRelevant sections: This is from the books, where she confessed to sleep with other men outside of marriage, but only after Robert died. That's not high treason.In the show, she confessed fucking Lancel when Rob was still alive. Again, this is already a crime punishable by death on its own, so there's no need to judge her for anything else. The walk of Shame is not a reasonable sentence for high treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 This is just another plot hole they started digging by turning sexually manipulative Cersei into over-invested tiger mom Cersei. TV Cersei didn't have the last high septon murdered, she put him in jail -- something the sparrows wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andorion Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 This is from the books, where she confessed to sleep with other men outside of marriage, but only after Robert died. That's not high treason.In the show, she confessed fucking Lancel when Rob was still alive. Again, this is already a crime punishable by death on its own, so there's no need to judge her for anything else. The walk of Shame is not a reasonable sentence for high treason.Oh the show...In my opinion wherever the show tried to diverge from the books in Season 5 they messed up bigtime. And this particular nuance - sex with Lancel before or after Robert's death seems lost on them. In the show the High Septon basically said the same thing - the other charges need to be investigated in a trial. So a trial is taking place, and if its a trial Cersei can invoke Trial by Combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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