The Grimdark Appreciation thread II

[peterbound]

counter offer: You could lighten up, and I could just chuckle at your shameless plugs rather than insult them. 

 

 

[C.T. Phipps]

counter offer: You could lighten up, and I could just chuckle at your shameless plugs rather than insult them. 

Sure.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Mesa thinks this thread be ending like the last one

[C.T. Phipps]

Let's hope not:

Grimdark Video Game Recommendations

Assassin's Creed
Dead Space
Dead Space 2
Dragon Age: Origins (Commoner Dwarf, City Elf)
Dragon Age 2
Metro
Metro: Last Light
The Witcher
The Witcher 2
The Witcher 3
Fallout 3
Fallout: New Vegas (Lonesome Road and Dead Money, Mister House Path)
Fallout 4 (Institute, Brotherhood of Steel, Railroad paths all qualify)
Infamous
Infamous 2
Pillars of Eternity
Prototype
Dishonored
Telltale's The Walking Dead
Telltale's The Walking Dead: 100 Days
Telltale's The Walking Dead: Season 2
Telltale's The Wolf Among Us
Telltale's Game of Thrones
Shadow of Mordor
Singularity
Castlevania: Lord of Shadows
Thief
Skyrim (Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Vampire Paths)

---

Notes

Assassins Creed had a lot of moral ambiguity and nihilism going on it (not the least bit revealing God wasn't real in the world--at least to the main PC) but its sequels have been a great deal more light-hearted and heroic.

I don't include the Silent Hill games here because I classify them as horror but they straddle the line since they're simultaneously horror but also action-fantasy games.

Alien: Isolation is another game I'd firmly put in the horror franchise.

Castlevania: Lord of Shadows is one of the few games I ever quit because it was too damned depressing.

Thief is really-really badly made and a shame.

Prototype is a really fun game about being an eldritch abomination while the sequel is just...awful.

Infamous is a deconstruction of superheroism in the first and second games, showing how Cole lives in a corrupt world where being a good person doesn't necessarily make the world a better place. More so the first game with its twist than the second. Infamous: Second Son is pure superhero fantasy.

I'm torn on the Dead Rising games since they tend to be every bit as vicious in their satire of the greedy, materialistic, and horrible nature of the world as should be but are also so damned funny.

Dragon Age: Inquisition is much-much less morally ambiguous and noir than its predecessors.

Shadow of Mordor is awesome. It's faithful to Tolkien AND awesomely dark.

I'm not including Gears of War or Halo despite both of them being, essentially, very similar to Warhammer 40K. Why? Because I haven't played either. I am a fan of Halo media but that's different.

[Darth Richard II]

I wouldn't call Dishonored grimdark. Although its one of the few games on that list I actually really like
 

And yeah, Lords of Shadow is grimdark up to 11. Holy shit that game is DARK.

[Magnar of Skagos]

YES! Shadow of Mordor is most definitely grimdark. Damn, that game was awesome. I completely forgot about it til now! Anybody know any books in that kind of style?

[C.T. Phipps]

I wouldn't call Dishonored grimdark. Although its one of the few games on that list I actually really like

And yeah, Lords of Shadow is grimdark up to 11. Holy shit that game is DARK.

You think the plague-ridden class-divided perpetually night-ridden hellish caricature of Victorian London isn't grimdark? Where the main hero is powered by Satan (who is also God)? The one where the GOOD endings for victims sends them to hellish eternal punishments?

Man, you are harsh, Darth Richard II.

[C.T. Phipps]

YES! Shadow of Mordor is most definitely grimdark. Damn, that game was awesome. I completely forgot about it til now! Anybody know any books in that kind of style?

All I know is they manage to really illustrate what people say when they say, "The Silmarillon is gridmark."

Because it takes all the background information for the Lord of the Rings, plays it straight.

And the result?

Damn, this world is DARK.

I really love Celebrimbor's oath if you assemble all the pieces of it: I am The Bright Lord of Mordor. The silver hand that drives back the darkness, Reaching through the fog of night, To avenge those long betrayed. Arise from fields of death, And march forth from the shadow, Through the purifying flames of war, You who were once eldar shall be reforged. Beneath my hammer, The Bringer of Gifts, the Betrayer shall be un-made, I renounce the Blessed Realm. To redeem the Land of Shadow. And bind the walls of Arda, In place of the Dark Lord, You shall have light undiminished, All shall fear me and rejoice.

[Ser Drizztos]

Some of those recommendations would be arguable but I'm in no mood to argue. Grimdark, well-written oldschool RPGs where you can make morally questionable choices or even do outright evil things include:

Planescape: Torment

Arcanum

Mask of the Betrayer

VtM: Bloodlines

 

 

[C.T. Phipps]

Some of those recommendations would be arguable but I'm in no mood to argue. Grimdark, well-written oldschool RPGs where you can make morally questionable choices or even do outright evil things would be:

Planescape: Torment

Arcanum

Mask of the Betrayer

VtM: Bloodlines

I could have made the list smaller but I tended to ere on putting the hazy ones in the list rather than missing them. I'm not adverse to differences of opinion.

Planescape: Torment is perhaps the quintessential grimdark video game in both the classical grimdark sense (over-the-top darkness which is actually humorous) as well as the modern sense (dark, brooding, somber morally ambiguous storytelling). Then again, we might as well just say, "Anything by Chris Avellone is probably grimdark."

Knights of the Old Republic 2
Tides of Numenora
Pillars of Eternity

And so on and so on.

Arcanum is the best steampunk thing in RPGs and I'm sorry Bethesda never made a Obsidian-ized sequel. I will say I love how the narrative gleefully takes the **** out of the Chosen One Reincarnation Storyline.

Mask of the Betrayer really redeemed the Forgotten Realms video games for me.

V:TM Bloodlines is one of those games I can say, "Is on the list of the best I've ever played." Too bad the final third blew. I've heard rumors that Obsidian is presently working on a Louisiana-based sequel.

*fingers crossed*

[Darth Richard II]

I think dishonored is dark, I just don't think it's grimdark. Although it's been a while.

 

[Darth Richard II]

Also Halo isn't grimdark at all, it's inspiration was ring world and banks culture series(and it shows). Although I stopped at halo 3.

[TheRevanchist]

I wouldn't call Dishonored grimdark. Although its one of the few games on that list I actually really like
 

And yeah, Lords of Shadow is grimdark up to 11. Holy shit that game is DARK.

Really? Can it be something more grimdark than it? Plague that kills people, rulers getting chopped, betrayal etc.

Planescape Torment is definitely the most grimdark game I've ever played though. And easily, the best game when it comes to writing.

Knights of the Old Republic 2 is also quite dark. The first game has a Hollywood-ian ending, and then the second game which is 5 years later starts with the Jedi basically being wiped out from the galaxy.

Definitely second C.T.Philips for Pillars of Eternity, Dragon Age: Origins, the Witcher games and The Walking Dead games.

[Ser Drizztos]

Ah yes, POE. Playing that, I found it bore some thematic resemblances to TSA, though without reaching the same philosophical depth. MCA didn't do much writing for that game AFAIK, just a couple NPCs; part of the reason he ultimately left Obsidian I think.

[TheRevanchist]

Shit, Avellone has left Obsidian? DIdn't know it.

Best video game writer of all time? Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale, Fallout 2, Knights of the Old Republic 2, Neverwinter Nights 2 in addition to supporting roles in Fallout New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity.

The only ones who comes close are probably Drew Karpyshyn (Baldurs Gate series, Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, The Old Republic) and Ken Levine (System Shock 2, BioShock, BioShock Infinite).

[GallowKnight]

V:TM Bloodlines

is one of those games I can say, "Is on the list of the best I've ever played." Too bad the final third blew. I've heard rumors that Obsidian is presently working on a Louisiana-based sequel.

*fingers crossed*

Well, Paradox Interactive owns all of the rights to the World of Darkness, so there might be a possibility for something interesting. 

[Magnar of Skagos]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 is also quite dark. The first game has a Hollywood-ian ending, and then the second game which is 5 years later starts with the Jedi basically being wiped out from the galaxy.

Just listen to the soundtrack for KOTOR 2 and you will know its dark

[C.T. Phipps]

Also Halo isn't grimdark at all, it's inspiration was ring world and banks culture series(and it shows). Although I stopped at halo 3.

Eh, the horrific nature of the Spartan program, the fact the Earth government was behind it, Covenant's genocide, Flood, and doom of all A.I. made it seem rather grimdark. Then again,it's pretty damn shiny and chrome plus everything mostly works out so it was always an iffy proposition.

I second KOTOR 2 but that's primarily because the game was Avellone's deconstruction of Star Wars black and white morality, the Force, the Jedi vs. Sith conflict, and a lot of other tropes. It didn't quite work, of course, because your character could basically tell Kreia to shove it and I found that the most satisfying answer personally.

And yeah, it's a pity on Avellone.

[C.T. Phipps]

Shit, Avellone has left Obsidian? DIdn't know it.

Best video game writer of all time? Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale, Fallout 2, Knights of the Old Republic 2, Neverwinter Nights 2 in addition to supporting roles in Fallout New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity.

The only ones who comes close are probably Drew Karpyshyn (Baldurs Gate series, Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2, The Old Republic) and Ken Levine (System Shock 2, BioShock, BioShock Infinite).

I love Avellone's stuff but I actually have a fondness for Josh Sawyer (who is like Avellone's mental opposite), Hideo Kojima, and David Gaider just as much (who if not as in-depth, is great at broad strokes). My biggest problem is quite often Avellone forgets to round out a lot of ideas and they can sometimes walk into a wall.

For example, Lonesome Road is meant to be a dark and brooding reflection on civilization and the horrors of post-apocalypse civilization plus symbology but, well, doesn't work at all. Also, in his own words, he can't write any romance where one of the participants isn't on fire or a psychopathic stalker. Which I found to be cute admission.

Drew also did some decent Star Wars novels from the perspective of the Sith.

[TheRevanchist]

I love Avellone's stuff but I actually have a fondness for Josh Sawyer (who is like Avellone's mental opposite), Hideo Kojima, and David Gaider just as much (who if not as in-depth, is great at broad strokes). My biggest problem is quite often Avellone forgets to round out a lot of ideas and they can sometimes walk into a wall.

For example, Lonesome Road is meant to be a dark and brooding reflection on civilization and the horrors of post-apocalypse civilization plus symbology but, well, doesn't work at all. Also, in his own words, he can't write any romance where one of the participants isn't on fire or a psychopathic stalker. Which I found to be cute admission.

Drew also did some decent Star Wars novels from the perspective of the Sith.

Darth Bane trilogy is excellent, and quite enjoyed Revan's novel.