Chancho Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Did Aegon the Unworthy gave the two valyrian swords to his bastards? Or Egg was the one who gave Darksister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Likely daeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Likely daeron. Indeed a better guess, it's so weird that Targaryens Kings were handling their historic swords to bastard kins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Indeed a better guess, it's so weird that Targaryens Kings were handling their historic swords to bastard kins.true. Why not give it to his son baelor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Maybe a reward because he killed Daemon and his twins, I guess Daeron was really fed up with Daemon than,because nobody could guarantee he wasn't going to marry and the sword would just go back to the liege after he died, i would expect the Hand of the King to constitute a family anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Maybe a reward because he killed Daemon and his twins, I guess Daeron was really fed up with Daemon than. Because nobody could guarantee he wasn't going to marry, i would expect the Hand of the King to marry.bloodraven used dark sister in red grass. He fought with bittetsteel with it right after daemon died. I think he was given earlier. Maybe a reward for his information work. He reported daemon's rebellion to daeron. Or aegon IV gave it to him to piss off daeron after aemon died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 bloodraven used dark sister in red grass. He fought with bittetsteel with it right after daemon died. I think he was given earlier. Maybe a reward for his information work. He reported daemon's rebellion to daeron. Or aegon IV gave it to him to piss off daeron after aemon died. Daeron must love his father a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Daeron, IMO. Bloodraven was only 9 when his father died and sword is traditionally bestowed upon knighting someone. That was what Aegon did with Daemon - and even the Aegon the Conqueror reborn was not 9, he was 12. Generally, the first sword a knight owns is the one he receives at his knighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreyPiesForSkagos Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Really an interesting question, I think. It's not very strange to hear that such an important figure as Bloodraven would wield Valyrian Steel, but it is indeed strange that he most likely got it very early on. Probably somebody saw something in him. I would have guessed that it was Aegon the Unworthy without even really thinking about it, that is, now I am not sure. Probably is well-beloved mother had a hand in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 If Daeron gave it, it's like... Why would him? He had a lot of sons and two of them were pretty good at fighting and commanding armies i supose (Baelor & Maekar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It must have been Daeron II prior to the Regrass Field, and he possibly did so because he had a very close relationship with Brynden Rivers. Something like a (surrogate) father-son relationship. Daeron II clearly is now confirmed to be the brother Bloodraven loved, and that was apparently not a one way relationship in light of the things Yandel told us about Missy Blackwood and her relationship to Queen Naerys, the Dragonknight, and Prince Daeron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 If Daeron gave it, it's like... Why would him? He had a lot of sons and two of them were pretty good at fighting and commanding armies i supose (Baelor & Maekar).My guess is that he wanted to show his esteem to Brynden Rivers and at the same time show that the sword was not the kingdom, that the sword could go to whomever the king likes without making THEM the king. Plus, Baelor and Maekar would have hardly been pleased with something of a second-best. Blackfyre would have been something else. But Dark Sister would make a great present for a bastard. Daeron's sons didn't need anything to show superiority, it was supposedly there by the fact that they were Daeron's. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew in advance and approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfgangII Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 My guess is that he wanted to show his esteem to Brynden Rivers and at the same time show that the sword was not the kingdom, that the sword could go to whomever the king likes without making THEM the king. Plus, Baelor and Maekar would have hardly been pleased with something of a second-best. Blackfyre would have been something else. But Dark Sister would make a great present for a bastard. Daeron's sons didn't need anything to show superiority, it was supposedly there by the fact that they were Daeron's. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew in advance and approved. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 That is a very good argument, If that is somehow the reason, Daeron would look like even more like a masterfull politician to me... I hope Duncan and Egg novels give the answer to us soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I do think that was the reason. If Daeron had given Dark Sister to Baelor or Maekar, that would have emphasized the significance of the ancestral Targaryen swords, thus strengthening Daemon's position because Blackfyre was superior to Dark Sister as related to kingship. It would have been seen as petty trying to one-up Daemon. Daeron would have been seen as scraping to give his own line some semblance of additional legitimacy. Brynden Rivers was the perfect choice. To him, it would be indeed an honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 I'm not sure if the idea of the Blackfyre being 'the kingdom' actually was around before Daemon's supporters created it. Yes, Blackfyre was usually the king's sword, but that didn't mean all that much since many kings didn't exactly use it.Aegon I had it and used it, and he gave it to Prince Aenys to train at arms on occasion. Aenys I inherited it but chose to give it to Maegor and continued to rule without 'the sword' for five years. Maegor I had and wielded it, of course. But Jaehaerys' sword from 43 AC onwards was Dark Sister. One assumes that he switched to Blackfyre during his reign or else the idea that Blackfyre was the sword of the kings would have been merely some shaky theory. Viserys I, Aegon II, and Aegon III were no warriors so whatever swords they wielded wouldn't have mattered all that much. I'm not sure, by the way, to whom Blackfyre passed after Aegon II's accident at Rook's Rest. I guess Aemond wielded it but he didn't take it with him to the Riverlands, did he? If so, it is strange that it wasn't lost in the Gods Eye later on.Daeron I would have wielded it as a warrior-king - do we know why the Dornish never captured it? Baelor I, Viserys II, and Aegon IV again were no warriors.In the case of Viserys I, Aegon III, and Baelor I I'm not sure whether they actually wielded a sword. Viserys was a party king, Aegon was melancholy and did not like to be touched, and Baelor loved peace. Aegon II sort of formally owned Blackfyre but whether he ever once drew it in combat we don't know. Considering his reign it is rather unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Oh I agree it was all Daemon and his party's invention. One more reason for Daeron not to play along. With their claims, it was almost inevitable that his giving Dark Sister to one of his own sons would be interpreted as trying to "neutralize" Blackfyre's significance that was never there in the fierst place.Besides, Maekar's choice of weapon was not sword, it was mace. Baelor might have preferred spears which would be a reflection of his "chivalrous" nature and also his "Dornishness". Why give them something that, in the case of at least Maekar, was not even something that they preferred? Just to show that he could which would do anyone little good anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 It could be as easy as Baelor acknowledging that young Brynden (Baelor was as old as Daemon Blackfyre and thus older than Bloodraven) was the better swordsman, and suggesting to his father to give Dark Sister to the young man. Maekar had little chance of getting considering that he was the youngest son and this would have sent a rather weird message to the Realm if the Targaryens were now trying to make Dark Sister 'the kingdom'.But I actually think Bloodraven got Dark Sister quite some time prior to the First Blackfyre Rebellion, and therefore it may have had nothing to do with the symbolic meaning of Blackfyre at all (considering that Daemon had not yet tried to claim the Iron Throne yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 The rumours about Daemon being the true heir thanks to having Blackfyre were not something that emerged all of a sudden when he decided that yes, he wanted to be king, they were there since the day he got it. Anyway, it's completely possible that Bloodraven got his blade long before the rebellion, which isn't to say Blackfyre was no consideration of Daeron's. But there was no reason for Daeron to "keep" Dark Sister that seems to have changed owners quite randomly while Blackfyre at least had gotten owned at least mainly by Targaryen kings, for his own offspring. Simply, the gesture, if it was indeed Daeron's, could be interpreted in two ways: Dark Sister isn't this important, so why don't we give it to someone not of the current king's line? Or, Dark Sister is so important, as the other Targaryen anchestral sword, that the king could bestow it upon whomever he likes, which is what Aegon did with Blackfyre. Either way, there was no reason for Daeron to "reserve" Dark Sister for anyone. ETA: Maekar might have indeed not gotten a say but I see no reason why Daeron, who by the time could probably see that Maekar was the only one of his sons, beside Baelor, who would be any good with weapons, would simply say, "Well, it might suck for you, but such is life, suck it" without even asking if HE wanted the thing. No matter how strong the bond between Bloodraven and Daeron was (and I believe it was strong), Maekar was Daeron's son. From the little we know of Daeron, he isn't the man who won't think of his sons before bestowing a blade that was so insignificant upon someone if it, indeed, meant something to Maekar. If making Dark Sister "the kingdom" was true for Maekar, it would have been the same, or even stronger, with Baelor. If bestowing the sword happened close enough to the Blackfyre rebellion, neither of them had a chance. In fact, Daeron could have used Dark Sister for Baelor's own knighting but he chose not to. IMO, he didn't want to lend credibility to the tale of this so important sword that was given to this so important Daemon by trying to mimic it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon The Black Dragon Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 It must have been Daeron II prior to the Regrass Field, and he possibly did so because he had a very close relationship with Brynden Rivers. Something like a (surrogate) father-son relationship. Daeron II clearly is now confirmed to be the brother Bloodraven loved, and that was apparently not a one way relationship in light of the things Yandel told us about Missy Blackwood and her relationship to Queen Naerys, the Dragonknight, and Prince Daeron.Where is it confirmed that Daeron is the brother Bloodraven loved? Did some new info come out that I haven't seen yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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