ChillyPolly Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Well then, your argument is tautological. You assume a large number of people believe they have a holy duty to murder certain people, and express surprise that more people don't act on that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Well then, your argument is tautological. You assume a large number of people believe they have a holy duty to murder certain people, and express surprise that more people don't act on that belief.I didn't express surprise that more people don't act on the belief, I was replying to Nestor's surprise by saying that more people would, if the overall stability in the US was worse. As things stand, there's the rule of law, and people's 401ks to think about, so that while many people do believe that abortion is murder, only a few are "passionate" enough to leave behind their family and friends and possessions and pleasures in life in favor of a desperate attack on great satan. If there weren't so many 401ks, if there wasn't such general hope that one's personal future will be the promised happy retirement of the American Dream there'd be a lot more people being "passionate" and Nestor wouldn't be surprised at that point.So a large number of people believe that there is a holy duty to murder certain people but only some of these people believe that the duty is theirs personally right now. I mean, Walking Dead isn't even over yet, you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Since the shooter was taken alive, and not shot by the police the moment he stepped out into the open, I'm going to make a wild and crazy prediction and guess he'll turn out to be white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesy Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I'm not trying to downplay the racial implications, but I do wonder if a criminal removes all doubt of guilt, his inevitable conviction somehow makes it more palatable to LE to take them alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 That makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 it will probably turn out to confirm that citizens of the US have far more to fear from christians then muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 it will probably turn out to confirm that citizens of the US have far more to fear from christians then muslims. They won't make that absolutely justified conclusion, however. After all, if a Christian extremist kills people, it's because he's crazy. If a Muslim extremist kills people, it's because he's a Muslim. We see amost the exact reasoning (well, the Muslim part wasn't stated, but still) in this very thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Tgftv,He could be a perfectly sane extremist. We don't know yet. All I've seen so far is he's a white guy with connections to Colleton County South Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This is not some crazy, inexplicable, unpredictable incident. This is the natural consequence of the heated rhetoric around every single element of this situation. This is what you get when you talk about abortion the way the right does. This is what you get when you talk about guns the way the right does. This is what you get when the right talks about "Second Amendment remedies" -- not just crazies on the Internet, but major figures with national profiles, like Sarah Palin.How the hell can people be surprised at this point? This is what happens when you deliberately rile people up.So thanks, right-wingers. You killed three innocent people. Again. This time you didn't even kill your intended targets. You killed a cop instead.My sincere sympathies to the families of the police officer killed in the attack, and of the civilians, for lack of a better word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Well according to Fox News commentor Bo Dietl, somehow, this situation is an example of our president acting like a fool. And something something about our six shooters, and this isn't fairyland, but it was hard to hear over the seizure induced by the sheer fucking stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 it will probably turn out to confirm that citizens of the US have far more to fear from christians then muslims. How can you separate the two? People with extremist views willing to commit violence are all the same and need to be equally feared and disdained regardless of which religion they come from. The idea that the violent acts of christian extremists are somehow more threatening or worse than other types of violence is just odd. These people are all nutballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 How can you separate the two? People with extremist views willing to commit violence are all the same and need to be equally feared and disdained regardless of which religion they come from. The idea that the violent acts of christian extremists are somehow more threatening or worse than other types of violence is just odd. These people are all nutballs. The point, Zelt, is that the country needs to stop categorically treating Muslims like fucking pariahs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 How can you separate the two? People with extremist views willing to commit violence are all the same and need to be equally feared and disdained regardless of which religion they come from. The idea that the violent acts of christian extremists are somehow more threatening or worse than other types of violence is just odd. These people are all nutballs. Well, but Islamic terrorism is a thing that generally has to be imported. Christian terrorism can be homegrown; we have a mostly Christian culture, and the forces that are trying to inspire violent extremism among Christians can be seen on the nightly news from Presidential candidates, pundits, read in op-eds in respectable news, and heard from your neighbor. Or beaten into your head, by your neighbor.This is what he most likely meant about having more to fear from Christians than Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The point, Zelt, is that the country needs to stop categorically treating Muslims like fucking pariahs.Inigima,We should never have started to catagorically treat any group as "pariahs". We should judge each individual on their actions. However, it is a fact of human existence that humans like to catagorize and as a result we tend to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Inigima,We should never have started to catagorically treat any group as "pariahs". We should judge each individual on their actions. However, it is a fact of human existence that humans like to catagorize and as a result we tend to do that.Thank you for the remedial sociology lesson, Scot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindly Old Man Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 They have a bunch of details about the shooter. 57 year old white loner, big surprise. I'm pretty sure this isn't terrorism though, after consulting this handy chart: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 This is not some crazy, inexplicable, unpredictable incident. This is the natural consequence of the heated rhetoric around every single element of this situation. This is what you get when you talk about abortion the way the right does. This is what you get when you talk about guns the way the right does. This is what you get when the right talks about "Second Amendment remedies" -- not just crazies on the Internet, but major figures with national profiles, like Sarah Palin.How the hell can people be surprised at this point? This is what happens when you deliberately rile people up.So thanks, right-wingers. You killed three innocent people. Again. This time you didn't even kill your intended targets. You killed a cop instead.My sincere sympathies to the families of the police officer killed in the attack, and of the civilians, for lack of a better word.^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 ^ This.Really, Terra Prime. You are going to equate holding "right wing" views (whatever that means -- like what? Like thinking abortion is immoral homicide?), with "killing 3 innocent people", on the flimsiest or pretexts?And if some random crazy goes out and kills some "right wingers" or "evil Christians" or whatever, will you accept your share of the responsibility you are dishing out? Or is there a double standard in place for this sort of extremist rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 the world's had its share of lefty 'terrorists,' though i dunno if they specifically targeted rightwingers or christians or whatever in civil society (as distinguished from attacking sitting monarchs & state institutions). any good examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 the world's had its share of lefty 'terrorists,' though i dunno if they specifically targeted rightwingers or christians or whatever in civil society (as distinguished from attacking sitting monarchs & state institutions). any good examples? Hmm, I'm not sure about specific targeting of rightwingers or Christians, but leftist groups have been known to kill and kidnap civilians for financing its activities. FARC and the Shining Path come to mind. Also, could terrorist groups with a national liberation agenda(Provisional Irish Republican Army, the Basque ETA, PLO, etc.) be considered lefties for their adoption of leftist ideals pertaining to socio-economic conditions of their people? If that is the case, civilian targeting and instances of targeting based on religion was common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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