The Second Life of Bloodraven

[Maester Feelgood]

At the ripe old age of 127ish(?), Brynden Rivers A.K.A Bloodraven has gone from Bastard to the Legitimized son of Aegon IV, from the Master of Whispers to the Hand of the King. Then he rises again from down in the dungeons of Kings Landing up to the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, only to have him dissappear north where we find him in a state of almost living death still working his magics through Greensight. Every time you think you've seen the last of the fabled Bloodraven he returns again, arguably growing stronger and stronger.

I wrote that very slight overview of Brynden's achievements as to set the scene for what may be his next move, a proper second life. Though we have no idea how long he can exist as he does now, all men must die and yet Greenseers and Skinchangers often receive one final chance to live. The modest seem to choose their trusty animal sidekick, the powerful or power hungry have attempted to take humans and maybe other creatures yet unexplored. Personally, I don't think that Bloodraven will go quietly into the night, satisfied to live on as Mormont's raven begging for corn or any other common creature for that matter. He wouldn't be any more satisfied being a raven than he was being Lord Crow living out his life amongst the black crows at Castle Black. It's that concept which I wanted to explore.

There are multiple options in front of Bloodraven and I believe he is strong enough to achieve almost any of them. Here are a few that stand out to me, off hand.

1.) A dragon - Rebirth as a dragon has been the goal and bane of many different Targaryens. Some theorists equate the dragonbond to warging but no matter which side you take, like the mighty direwolf, the dragon is a second life fit for a king. Still, without more information it's hard to say if warging a dragon is even possible. Not too mention that with dragons, possibly like any other animal, you'd eventually forget who you were and become only the animal. This may or may not be enough for BR's ambitions and it's Bran who BR so often tells that he will fly.

2.) Jon Snow - Spawned from the theory that Jon may be temporarily displaced from his own body, this may make him an easy target for BR. Couple that with Jon's rumored Targaryen lineage (which BR more than likely knows the truth of) as another temptation for choosing him and Jon could be considered a more likely candidate. Disregarding his lineage, he is still a warg. This might allow BR to carry his abilities into his next life. Just for arguments sake, suppose that Jon was a Targ, a Warg and easy pickings..... that's would be a trifecta of sorts. OTOH, it's difficult to warg a dead guy unless your an Other (which could also have links to greensight and the Children but that's another debate.... or is it?!...) so it's still anybody's guess..

3.) Hodor - I think this one may be my personal favorite, not because it's the most logical but that it would make for quite the odd twist. For one, GRRM has told us in an SSM that Hodor will one day say something other than Hodor. In lieu of him growing his wits back, it's unlikely that he's going to change his signature statement. Secondly Bran has now warged Hodor multiple times and "broken him in" for lack of a better term. Hodor trusts Bran and seems to relent to being warged by him less and less. So, if it were BR warging him he might not know it wasn't Bran until it was too late. Hodor is young and strong with a mysterious background even so there may be other factors making him more or less likely of a candidate. Still, Hodor's new word may just be a byproduct of being warged by Bran. There are suggestions that the warg and the warged each influence and become a part of one another, Bran may be influencing Hodor more than he knows, perhaps even stabilizing his mind and eventually resulting in a slightly larger vocabulary. I have another theory concerning that which I like to call "Of Mice and Hodor." It's about Hodor experiencing transference from Bran, specifically his affections for Meera. That one doesn't end too well.

These three are just a few options that struck me and the second life of Bloodraven may never come to pass, or be of little consequence overall. I found it fun to speculate about personally and I hope you all add ideas and enjoy reading mine.

Please forgive any grammatical and or spelling errors as I can only do squinty-eyed revisions on the 3X3 inch box that my cell phone allows me. Thanks all.

[LordImp]

Hodor or a dragon. 

[Maester Feelgood]

One of the reasons I thought that taking a human could be likely (if he is in fact dying) is the arrival of (f)Aegon in Westeros. Brynden has had a storied history in fighting the Blackfyres. It's why he ended up in the black cells and consequently took the black. The resurgence of a Blackfyre has to drive him a little crazy. It would be strangely fitting if he were to arrive back in Westeros around the same time as the long extinguished threat he sought to put down so many years ago.

[HouseJarhead]

You know, I've never thought anything about him resurfacing at the same time the possible (I think Aegon is, unknowingly) Blackfyre pretender returns. It makes sense. Why would GRRM build up the entire Blackfyre rebellion story line, which I totally love, if not to use it in the future. My only problem with the theory is the show. In GOT, the Blackfyre storyline is played into at all. If the makers of GOT know the ending of the books, why haven't they worked the story line in if it isn't important?

[Dorian Martell]

He will live his second life in a tree, like the rest of the greenseers 

 

[AlaskanSandman]

This is actually an interesting thought really. Yes, as Dorian Martell points out, it could be the obvious second life in a tree. Though it is much more interesting to question this than to just accept that Bloodraven will just want to go into the trees, even Bran is terrified of the thought. 

Most of us took the prelude chapter to be foreshadowing into Jon's possible return. It having a unison purpose of showing Bloodraven's motives, or at least one of them is more interesting. Who better for Bloodraven to take than Bran, the most powerful telepath that we know of so far. (Though when Varymyr tried to take a human, he was already weak and on the verge of death. So who knows if he could have done it at full strength.) 

This was indeed Varymyr's problem, he didn't wanna have to live on in an animal or the trees or rock. The great and powerful Varymyr in the end couldn't except it and sought his second life in another human. Even if he had to be a old woman, it was better than an animal who would forget it's human side.

Im working a unique theory following clues in the book to get an answer rather than what i want to happen. This may play into it as Bloodraven's control over raven's place him in this "God's Eye" conspiracy. Though i place the Green men and Garth to the side of Merlings and others. As Bloodraven is exhibiting many "Other" traits, along with Melisandre's comments about Bloodraven and sleep being another form of death and associates him with the Great Other. 

You sir may have just changed some of my thoughts regarding Bloodraven. Dont fucking trust him.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, it doesn't seem as if the greenseer can live on in just one animal. They leave parts of themselves in all the animals they overtake throughout their lives, of course, but the bulk of them, the core, goes into the tree. If what we saw in Bran's chapter is any indication that the weirwoods eventually devour the greenseers completely. Some of Bloodraven's predecessors seem to be still sort of living on nearly or completely rotten skeletons.

[LordImp]

You know, I've never thought anything about him resurfacing at the same time the possible (I think Aegon is, unknowingly) Blackfyre pretender returns. It makes sense. Why would GRRM build up the entire Blackfyre rebellion story line, which I totally love, if not to use it in the future. My only problem with the theory is the show. In GOT, the Blackfyre storyline is played into at all. If the makers of GOT know the ending of the books, why haven't they worked the story line in if it isn't important?

The main reason for the show not including Aegon i think it's because they have chosen main characters , Daenerys and Jon for example. So the please the show watchers they gives more attention to them rather than including new characters as Aegon. Like they did with Stannis , they killed him off( most likely) to let the fan favourite Jon do his job. So instead of having Aegon conquering much of Westeros they will have fan favourite Dany doing it instead. To please the fans and keeping show popular. And i also think that Aegon isnt that important. 

[HouseJarhead]

Perhaps you're correct although I think GoT watchers, especially non-book readers, would lose their S*it if he showed up in the series. I do believe its unneeded though. They really cant cram anymore story line into the already jam packed season anyhow. 

[Maester Feelgood]

This is actually an interesting thought really. Yes, as Dorian Martell points out, it could be the obvious second life in a tree. Though it is much more interesting to question this than to just accept that Bloodraven will just want to go into the trees, even Bran is terrified of the thought. 

Most of us took the prelude chapter to be foreshadowing into Jon's possible return. It having a unison purpose of showing Bloodraven's motives, or at least one of them is more interesting. Who better for Bloodraven to take than Bran, the most powerful telepath that we know of so far. (Though when Varymyr tried to take a human, he was already weak and on the verge of death. So who knows if he could have done it at full strength.) 

This was indeed Varymyr's problem, he didn't wanna have to live on in an animal or the trees or rock. The great and powerful Varymyr in the end couldn't except it and sought his second life in another human. Even if he had to be a old woman, it was better than an animal who would forget it's human side.

Im working a unique theory following clues in the book to get an answer rather than what i want to happen. This may play into it as Bloodraven's control over raven's place him in this "God's Eye" conspiracy. Though i place the Green men and Garth to the side of Merlings and others. As Bloodraven is exhibiting many "Other" traits, along with Melisandre's comments about Bloodraven and sleep being another form of death and associates him with the Great Other. 

You sir may have just changed some of my thoughts regarding Bloodraven. Dont fucking trust him. [emoji3]

Thanks, I look forward to reading that thread. Post me a link when you finish.

I'm not sure that (f)Aegon will be all that important to the endgame either but George wrote him in for some reason or another. I don't claim to know how much or how little he'll effect. If the Blackfyre/Brightfyre/Blacksteel theories have any merit though, Bloodraven will have to at least comment on it if Aegon proves to be (f)Aegon. I hope he does anyway.

Also, all singers go into the trees is mirrored by all the ravens have known singers. I like the idea that any animal, tree, person, stone, stream or anything inhabited will remember the bond. Echo's of the skinchanger remain is a good way to put it. Varamyr denies Haggon his second life yet is haunted by his voice and the lessons he taught. You could easily argue that these are just memories but they could just as easily be more. Varamyr also speaks of taking Orell's Hawk was it? He speaks of how he feels Orell's hatred of Jon Snow as he inhabits the bird while Orell presumably lives his second life within it. Did that bird then possess three personalities? It's own, Orell's and Varamyr's until it's firey death? Ghost still fights for and with Jon even when he's not wolf dreaming as well as Grey Wind and there must be other examples outside of those mentioned, Nymeria and the other Stark children. Plus, concerning BR you have Bran's telling quote about how men would fight in contrast to singers accepting their fate, slipping back into to the earth.

All interesting comments, bring 'em on!

[Curled Finger]

I'm in the camp that believes or wants BR to go on in all the flora and fauna he's er possessed.  However, this BR will try to pull a Varamyr on either Bran or Jon seems to be a popular thing lately.   I've seen several discussions that make my eyes glaze over.   Thanks for the short and concise brief and what for on this OP.  If you think BR is just a conniving jerk the 2nd human life makes sense.  As I see it, Fire really needs a good champion rather than the creeps who have represented thus far, Dany notwithstanding.  I've always thought BR was a man who lived outside himself serving the realm to the best of his abilities.  Other than waiting on Bran to take up the torch I get no feeling or impression that BR wants anything other than to die as greenseers die.   

[HouseJarhead]

I always took that BR was doing all for the better of the realm as well. Thinking of him in the other aspect is interesting

[Curled Finger]

I always took that BR was doing all for the better of the realm as well. Thinking of him in the other aspect is interesting

Me too.   I think it's the extremes and the small folk badmouthing that has led to suspicion regarding BR's motives.   He cultivated his reputation pretty meticulously and actually achieved some good behavior by intimidation.   His unwillingness to destabilize the realm in joining in the Blackfyre Rebellion(s) speaks volumes about his character.   

[Wolf's Bane]

He will live his second life in a tree, like the rest of the greenseers 

 

I think so too.  The trees never let go.  Bloodraven has a lot to be thankful for.  Although he doesn't get around much anymore.  I think he dies if he ever tries to leave that tree.  If there's someone he wants to possess, it's Bran.  Which could be the reason he brought the kid there in the first place.  To kill the mind, but leave the broken body intact so he can change into it.  It's not perfect but you know, beggars can't be choosy. 

[AlaskanSandman]

This is my introduction into the theory to slowly work people into it. 

And all though BR claims to be doing whats good for the realm as is Varys, this line of thought can be bad too, as it was for Hitler. The more devout to their cause, the more dangerous they become. Not to say Br is for sure, but this line of questioning i definitely like as things dont seem to fully add up.

 

Another interesting thing i found while looking at BR was actually Beric Dondarrion. Who also has one eye and sits in a cave upon a weirwood root throne of sorts. Clearly brought back by the side of Fire, and yet elements of BR seem to be like that of the Others. 

This is something i keep running into in everything i research, Fire and Ice seem to always lead back to the same source in the end. The Empire of the Dawn and or the COTF. Its almost as if all of this was created to pit man against man to aid the CotF in what ever they want, us following them in one way or another and killing our selves off instead of them. Idk. I cant fully put my finger on it yet. Maybe the CotF and all their magic tampering, it just got away from them?

[Dorian Martell]

I think so too.  The trees never let go.  Bloodraven has a lot to be thankful for.  Although he doesn't get around much anymore.  I think he dies if he ever tries to leave that tree.  If there's someone he wants to possess, it's Bran.  Which could be the reason he brought the kid there in the first place.  To kill the mind, but leave the broken body intact so he can change into it.  It's not perfect but you know, beggars can't be choosy. 

He has tree parts growing literally through him so I doubt he can move anywhere 

[Ser Creighton]

He will live his second life in a tree, like the rest of the greenseers 

 

Probably, however you have to wonder about the purpose of the warnings. Sixskins wanted more than a second life he wanted a new body. Second life is associated with animals after all. To warg a human is a no no, is Bran the only one that really does it? What if Bloodraven is already doing it, or if it is actually being done to him or gets done to him by someone else? Let's say the Night's King.

[Curled Finger]

What if Bran wargs BloodRaven?   Does that then leave Bran open to counter warging?   And what of nasty old Varamyr hanging out with Summer right there with Bran and BR?  Can he make another jump out of the old wolf?  

[Wavey Sauce]

i def believe he is Melissandres father and has a plan for her as well, or will watch over her in one way or another etc

[HouseJarhead]

One thing to think of is that House Blackwood descends from the First Men in the North. They were a northern house until the Starks drove them out. So in actuality, BR has the same blood as Jon Snow. So maybe blood wise, he could be referred to as Brendon Snow instead of Rivers. Don't really know if that means anything but it's interesting enough to note.