If Elia survives but loses her children, will she hate rhaegar and lyanna?

[purple-eyes]

tywin claimed that he did not want Elia die, he just forgot to mention. 

Let us take this as true. Anyway they did not kill jenny westerling. They surely knew Elia is no harm without children. 

If Elia survived, her two children were killed for being dragonspawn of rhaegar, 

Elia was returned to Dorne along with bones of Lewyn, or she was forced to join faith. 

what will she do? Will she hate rhaegar?

Will she hate lyanna as cersei? (Likely she knew lyanna loved her husband and eloped with him because rhaegar seems to share the prophecy with her, and also rhaegar crowned lyanna as his queen of love and beauty in stead of her. Lyanna accepted this and loved these flowers. She also knew lyanna is very beautiful. Maybe even know how she caught rhaegar's heart by being knight of laughing tree) 

Will she plot to revenge for her children? Will she try to fight with lannister? Will she hate house stark as well? 

Oh, but one thing we know for sure is that, she can easily know if young griff is true or fake. 

 

It is very interesting to explore her real feeling upon all these things before her death. 

What rhaegar told her after he returned from TOJ? 

Apologize for his action with lyanna stark or coldly ask her to continue to be a hostage to make sure he has dornish spears? 

Why did not he try to send them to DS? Or at least try to send aegon there? It is very dangerous to let his wife and two young children stay with a mad Aerys. (Like what it ended up) A smart person like rhaegar should have at least tried to send his heir aegon to somewhere safer. Jon snow knew this, cersei knew this, even Aerys knew this. If Jaime can threaten varys to save tyrion from dead cell, why not rhaegar do the same thing for his son? He can persuade Aerys to contact tywin, it is not that he can not do anything with his father. Aerys is asking him to help and lead the army, not the other way around. 

Or he just simply decided if lyanna and jon were alive, aegon and rhaenys were not that important? He can have two more dragon heads with lyanna in the future since aegon and two wives are from same mother? 

But GRRM did not spend any words on them. So we can only speculate. 

 

 

 

[Lady Topspin]

Sure, but not as much as she would hate the Lannisters.  She would be right to hate Rhaegar and any half-Stark abomination that results from his loins and Lyanna's oven. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Why she should hate Rhaegar and Lyanna? It's not like they dissappeared together and started a chain of reactions that ended in a war that killed her children, or that he abandoned her when she needed him like she was a broken baby making machine in order to create new babies with his new woman.

[kimim]

Why she should hate Rhaegar and Lyanna? It's not like they dissappeared together and started a chain of reactions that ended in a war that killed her children, or that he abandoned her when she needed him like she was a broken baby making machine in order to create new babies with his new woman.

ita. I'm sure she'll build an altar to his memory and sob in front of it forevermore.

[Meg Mormont]

She will go crazy. She wouldn't hate anyone, or probably would hate everyone as she will be out of her mind.

[purple-eyes]

She will go crazy. She wouldn't hate anyone, or probably would hate everyone as she will be out of her mind.

Not everybody will go crazy upon tragedies. 

Sometimes they can want to revenge. 

Like Cat, Cersei, and many mothers in the book. 

[Avimimus]

I'd assume have deeply conflicted feelings about Rhaegar, develop a deep hatred of prophesy and attempt revenge upon the usurpers...?

[Orphalesion]

We still don't know what her feelings were during the whole mess and how much she knew about Rhaegar's motivations. There are theories here (though I don't necessarily subscribe to them) that she knew and (some say) even consented to him having an affair to produce the third head of the dragon.  Though if that's true then I still don't understand why Rhaegar didn't just use royal privilege to produce a bastard.

So it is difficult to say how she''d feel about Rhaegar and Lyanna if she had survived the sack of Kings Landing. I can imagine that there would almost certainly a feeling of hurt/sadness and anger towards Rhaegar and bitterness if that prophecy of his was really worth the cost of notonly so many lives, but their children as well. Her feelings towards Lyanna would be similar and might be projected onto the remaining Starks, if she'd ever meet them.

Though I agree that'd she hate the Lannisters even more.

Of course if she survived, she might also know that her son is alive and well in Essos (if Aegon is real that is)

[Good Guy Garlan]

Elia would've turned into show!Ellaria. And you know what? I couldn't blame her. That shit is straight up supervillain backstory.

[redtree]

Totally,and Lannister and Bob too !
Rhaegar didn't even have someone who know Red Keep's underground way as a plan B for them. 
But perhaps if Rhaegar told her the truth she would've told everyone that Lyanna was a willing paramour, then Robert would go mad

How is it someone who determined to save the world became worse than Aegon 4 ? Right, because truly, he was only saving his d...

[TimJames]

She'd have reason to hate Rhaegar ever since he crowned some girl he just met at the tourney.

It would be fun to imagine Rhaegar receiving a raven while at The Tower of Joy. 

"Dear Rhaegar,

I know you're screwing that teenage girl. I took the kids back to Dorne and called up a lawyer.

Your (soon to be ex) wife. 

Elia Martell."

[purple-eyes]

She'd have reason to hate Rhaegar ever since he crowned some girl he just met at the tourney.

It would be fun to imagine Rhaegar receiving a raven while at The Tower of Joy. 

"Dear Rhaegar,

I know you're screwing that teenage girl. I took the kids back to Dorne and called up a lawyer.

Your (soon to be ex) wife. 

Elia Martell."

Yeah, IMHO, Elia really should summon Oberyn and took two children back to Dorne right after Rhaegar disappeared with Lyanna. 

Then she can stop Doran sending any army to help Aerys and watch Rhaegar and Lyanna were screwed by their own folly. 

then declared that Aegon is the new king after Aerys fell. 

honestly, after the sack of KL, if Dorne did not send army before, they can combine with reach Army together (which is huge, at least 40000) and install baby Aegon as new king (make little Margarey as his queen), they also have strong fleets, Robert was badly hurt, so they have some decent chance to win. 

Of course GRRM can not write in this way, but it is fun to imagine. 

 

[WhitewolfStark]

She'd likely go the route of Queen Margaret of Anjou (English Queen) with a touch of Queen Clemence of Hungary (French Queen). She'll return to Dorne as part of the peace negotiations, live in Sunspear as a dependent relation to Doran under the title of "the Princess Dowager", and likely settle on promoting charities and memorials when not consigned to her own grief. She'd likely play a minor role in politics (as Clemence did after the death of the King and her son the King), but nothing tremendously important to the Iron Throne at the same time. At most, she could serve a term as a Dornish representative on the Small Council most likely. In the books the attitude she'd most likely advocate would be a melancholic acceptance. Think book Ellaria's anti-vengeance speech but married to a more Eeyore-like acceptance of the worst luck always happening to her. Oberyn would likely be affected the most, upset at how his sister has changed so much. If anything he's likely angrier than in canon as it is written because Elia is constantly there to remind him of the damage done to their family. She'd die most likely in Dorne and be buried in Sunspear.

Dorne becomes very isolationist after these events (even more so than canon), with likely Oberyn plotting for the Lannisters and Robert to die at some point.

If there was a show version of this type of Still Alive!Elia, she would most likely replace Show!Ellaria in terms of being the trope of the "Woman Scorned".

[purple-eyes]

She'd likely go the route of Queen Margaret of Anjou (English Queen) with a touch of Queen Clemence of Hungary (French Queen). She'll return to Dorne as part of the peace negotiations, live in Sunspear as a dependent relation to Doran under the title of "the Princess Dowager", and likely settle on promoting charities and memorials when not consigned to her own grief. She'd likely play a minor role in politics (as Clemence did after the death of the King and her son the King), but nothing tremendously important to the Iron Throne at the same time. At most, she could serve a term as a Dornish representative on the Small Council most likely. In the books the attitude she'd most likely advocate would be a melancholic acceptance. Think book Ellaria's anti-vengeance speech but married to a more Eeyore-like acceptance of the worst luck always happening to her. Oberyn would likely be affected the most, upset at how his sister has changed so much. If anything he's likely angrier than in canon as it is written because Elia is constantly there to remind him of the damage done to their family. She'd die most likely in Dorne and be buried in Sunspear.

Dorne becomes very isolationist after these events (even more so than canon), with likely Oberyn plotting for the Lannisters and Robert to die at some point.

If there was a show version of this type of Still Alive!Elia, she would most likely replace Show!Ellaria in terms of being the trope of the "Woman Scorned".

maybe she will remarry in this case?

She is about 26 years old so still very young. 

I guess doran will arrange his sister to marry some bannerman in Dorne after a couple of years. 

Then hopefully she can have a better and more peaceful life. 

 

[Orphalesion]

maybe she will remarry in this case?

She is about 26 years old so still very young. 

I guess doran will arrange his sister to marry some bannerman in Dorne after a couple of years. 

Then hopefully she can have a better and more peaceful life. 

 

I don't know about her remarrying. Her not being able to have any more children would be a problem for her merriage prospects in a feudal society.

Th only way i can see it workign is if Doran finds a nice widower who already has several sons.

Plus she might not even ewant to remarry, after all she has been through. In any case an umarried live would not be uncomfortable for the sister of the Prince of Dorne; she'd be able to live inc omfort in Sun Spear and/or the Water Gardens, or might even be granted her own residence.

It would definitely be a peaceful life.

[purple-eyes]

 

I don't know about her remarrying. Her not being able to have any more children would be a problem for her merriage prospects in a feudal society.

Th only way i can see it workign is if Doran finds a nice widower who already has several sons.

Plus she might not even ewant to remarry, after all she has been through. In any case an umarried live would not be uncomfortable for the sister of the Prince of Dorne; she'd be able to live inc omfort in Sun Spear and/or the Water Gardens, or might even be granted her own residence.

It would definitely be a peaceful life.

yes, probably a widower already with enough children. 

Like how Princess Elaena married her last husband for love but without any children with him. 

By the way, I always feel that it is not true that she absolutely can not have more children. 

Naerys was declared as similar case but she managed to survive quite a few more childbirths after long time recovery.

Maesters probably saw Elia in a very bad situation so they said she can not do it again. 

But if she waited for long enough time and had a different husband (Targ gene seems to be harsh on mothers), she may be able to carry more children.

In fact, in the whole universe, we have not seen that one single woman was declared by maester to be infertile. They only said some women were weak or frail so it is hard to deliver child, blabla, like Cat thought about Roslin and maesters said about Naerys. 

It seems a quite difficult diagnosis for Westeros's health care to conform somebody is barren (can not conceive).  

 

 

[Orphalesion]

yes, probably a widower already with enough children. 

Like how Princess Elaena married her last husband for love but without any children with him. 

By the way, I always feel that it is not true that she absolutely can not have more children. 

Naerys was declared as similar case but she managed to survive quite a few more childbirths after long time recovery.

Maesters probably saw Elia in a very bad situation so they said she can not do it again. 

But if she waited for long enough time and had a different husband (Targ gene seems to be harsh on mothers), she may be able to carry more children.

In fact, in the whole universe, we have not seen that one single woman was declared by maester to be infertile. They only said some women were weak or frail so it is hard to deliver child, blabla, like Cat thought about Roslin and maesters said about Naerys. 

It seems a quite difficult diagnosis for Westeros's health care to conform somebody is barren (can not conceive).  

 

 

Yes she is not barren, she was only judged to be too frail to bare anymore children and in that world death by child birth is something that can and does happen to perfectly healthy and vigorous women.

So every further pragnancy would run a high risk of costing Elia's life, that is the issue.

[purple-eyes]

Yes she is not barren, she was only judged to be too frail to bare anymore children and in that world death by child birth is something that can and does happen to perfectly healthy and vigorous women.

So every further pragnancy would run a high risk of costing Elia's life, that is the issue.

 

True.

And Elia is probably in a hurry to provide a male heir for rhaegar, and also rhaegar likely wanted more children as soon as he can. 

so based on the timeline, she immediately got pregnant after she gave birth to Rhaenys and managed to rise from her bed-rest. 

Two childbirths plus half-year bedridden time in two years. 

this probably did not do any good to her health. 

 

  

[SilentDystopia]

I think she would hate him and Lyanna. The fact people are really saying that she would have been ok with the Lyanna thing is almost sad.

You know what let me entertain that idea instead. So she IS ok with rhaegar running away on a secret honeymoon with Lyanna, but if everything else happens (death of her children...blah blah blah) would she STILL be ok? "He told me he would so it's all cool" that would make her stupid in my opinion. I feel like she would hate him the most out of everyone else! Even if its a political Marriage he has an OATH and DUTY to his wife to protect her and his children (Isn't when they cloak the bride they bring them under their protection? Or am I wrong?). If it was war he was headed off to then she can't be mad, instead he ran off to go shag the wild northern girl. 

[TimJames]

I think she would hate him and Lyanna. The fact people are really saying that she would have been ok with the Lyanna thing is almost sad.

You know what let me entertain that idea instead. So she IS ok with rhaegar running away on a secret honeymoon with Lyanna, but if everything else happens (death of her children...blah blah blah) would she STILL be ok? "He told me he would so it's all cool" that would make her stupid in my opinion. I feel like she would hate him the most out of everyone else! Even if its a political Marriage he has an OATH and DUTY to his wife to protect her and his children (Isn't when they cloak the bride they bring them under their protection? Or am I wrong?). If it was war he was headed off to then she can't be mad, instead he ran off to go shag the wild northern girl. 

It gets worse.

Rhaegar not only broke his marriage vows, he announced his intention to do so BEFORE THE WHOLE KINGDOM. It is beyond embarrassing, and sends a clear message as to how much he actually thinks of his wife.

Then Rhaegar has three kingsguards to protect his bastard. That's a full 300% more protection than Elia and her children got. 

Yeah, if the rebellion didn't happen than Oberyn would almost assuredly have shoved a spear up Rhaegar's ass.