Was Ned wrong by not telling truth to Robert about Lyanna's eloping?

[purple-eyes]

Robert loved Lyanna a lot. 

He called Lyanna's name during his wedding night with Cersei (she is 17 years old and indeed tried to like Robert at that moment, I know she slept with jaime that morning, but that is not after the wedding. If you think Lyanna is so wonderful to sleep with a married father Rhaegar while being betrothed with Robert, I think Cersei is better than her on this one.)

Anyway, This is unforgivable for any woman, I can guarantee. 

Just try to imagine your husband (wife) cried out another person's name during your once-in-life wedding night. 

And Robert kept ruining his marriage life by showing off how he loved Lyanna, which is almost annoying even in the real life. no wife will like this. She is dead already, cersei is his wife. This is an insult to your current spouse. 

(Sometimes I even feel Robert is using this as a public relationship to validate his wrath and usurping to Targ and remind people what a evil person Rhaegar is. seriously, GRRM is over stressing here and make his life-long love kind of ridiculously and hard to believe)

Anyway, IMHO, Ned, should have told Robert that Lyanna did not love him. she ran with Rhaegar because she loved Rhaegar, then she died of a fever or whatever disease. Which means she literally dumped and abandoned Robert. This will at least make Robert getting cooler on Lyanna and treat Cersei slightly better, which is good for everybody. 

I think Ned was wrong and he owed Robert and Cersei for this. 

He damaged his own marriage by lie, then he did the similar thing to his friend's marriage. 

Of course Cersei would still do a lot of bad things later. 

But I think we can agree that Lyanna is the ignition for her bitterness and ruined her expectation for her marriage.  

 

let us say, if you were Robert, you mourned a girl who you loved deeply for all your life (and likely thought she loved you back too) and thought she was stolen from you unwillingly and raped to death by a evil person. 

But the truth is that she did not like you, she chose another man, dumped your betrothal and ran off with this married man without even an explanation.  

Do you think you should know this truth?

Or you prefer to live your whole life in this wrong opinion?

This must be an easy choice. 

 

-----------------------------------

Oh, please do not tell me that this is to protect Jon Snow's parentage and save his life, blablabla. 

No matter it is due to love or raping, they all know rhaegar and Lyanna had thousands times of mad sex in that broken tower and robert did not question that Lyanna may have a child. 

no matter Love-sex or raping, both can cause a child with equal chance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

I don't agree

She never intended to love Robert  (that was a show line)

And her main concern was that fact he came in and drunkenly raped her. Not that her one in a life time night (a modern projection by you)

 

And I really got to get to work so I can't continue but it was TO PROTECT JON.

I'm 

 

[purple-eyes]

I don't agree

reason?

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

reason?

I was just going to be all "hipster" with my response and leave it like that but I ended up feeling like i was being a turd so I edited my post. 

[purple-eyes]

I don't agree

She never intended to love Robert  (that was a show line)

And her main concern was that fact he came in and drunkenly raped her. Not that her one in a life time night (a modern projection by you)

 

And I really got to get to work so I can't continue but it was TO PROTECT JON.

 

Well, I did not watch show. 

I never said she wanted to love robert. 

but she was impressed by her royal wedding and liked her young and handsome husband. 

For an arranged marriage, this is not a bad start. 

At least Cersei did not want to screw up her marriage at that moment. She was not that disappointed in Robert either. 

That Lyanna's name is a big insult for her. It was very clear in the book. Even Ned knew about it and pitied her. 

No wife deserved this, either love marriage or arranged marriage. 

[Ser Frasier of House Crane]

What good would it have done? It would've broken Big Bob's heart, and despite his cheating nature, he did harbor some genuine feelings for her, and he probably would've been even more bitter and angry at the revelation, and thus would've become unstable on the throne.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

No, Ned was not wrong. There is only one way to keep a secret and that is to tell nobody.

And even if you don't like it, the reason is because he was protecting Jon's identity. Keeping Jon Snow safe is way more important than King Bob being all butthurt over Lyanna. 

[purple-eyes]

No, Ned was not wrong. There is only one way to keep a secret and that is to tell nobody.

And even if you don't like it, the reason is because he was protecting Jon's identity. Keeping Jon Snow safe is way more important than King Bob being all butthurt over Lyanna. 

This did not change anything about the information about Jon's secret. 

Just like I said in the original post. 

I am not saying Ned should say Lyanna had a child. 

He just needs to tell Robert Lyanna was not raped, she eloped willingly. Everything else remain the same. 

Raping and eloping both can make a child. 

Or do you think if it is a raping baby, then Ned and lyanna will just kill it? 

 

[purple-eyes]

What good would it have done? It would've broken Big Bob's heart, and despite his cheating nature, he did harbor some genuine feelings for her, and he probably would've been even more bitter and angry at the revelation, and thus would've become unstable on the throne.

really? so Robert should be denied the truth that he was disliked by Lyanna and abandoned by her?

It is kind of mean that Ned let Robert keep thinking and dreaming how tragic Lyanna was to be stolen from her. 

She is very happy to escape from him. 

 

[purple-eyes]

No, Ned was not wrong. There is only one way to keep a secret and that is to tell nobody.

And even if you don't like it, the reason is because he was protecting Jon's identity. Keeping Jon Snow safe is way more important than King Bob being all butthurt over Lyanna. 

The problem is Robert ruined his own marriage by his unrealistic feelings in Lyanna. 

Which in fact to some degree led to his own downfall. 

Or you think if Robert knew the truth, he would still love her madly and keep doing what he is doing?

Well, then I must admire him on his genuine love. 

 

 

[Hugorfonics]

The problem is Robert ruined his own marriage by his unrealistic feelings in Lyanna. 

Which in fact to some degree led to his own downfall. 

Or you think if Robert knew the truth, he would still love her madly and keep doing what he is doing?

Well, then I must admire him on his genuine love. 

 

 

 I doubt it.

Anyway, I agree that Robert uses propoganda and that Eddard made a bad decision and kinda lied to his bestfriend and definitely his wife, which was disastrous for the realm, however  

 Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Ned remembered the way she smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black  

who's going to break that promise?

[purple-eyes]

 

 I doubt it.

Anyway, I agree that Robert uses propoganda and that Eddard made a bad decision and kinda lied to his bestfriend and definitely his wife, which was disastrous for the realm, however  

who's going to break that promise?

I do not think Lyanna's promise includes "ned, promise me you will never tell Robert that I dumped him and ran away with rhaegar "

 

[Hugorfonics]

I do not think Lyanna's promise includes "ned, promise me you will never tell Robert that I dumped him and ran away with rhaegar "

 

 So what was it? It's gotta be protect Jon. If Ned tells the truth even Roberts court may be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize he's a Targaryen baby, or as Robert calls them, dragon spawn

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Robert needed to be told the truth. His love for Lyanna was holding him back from being not only a person but an adult. I know he had more problems than just that, but this was very important.

Ned didn't need to tell anything about Jon or Rhaegar. Simply make Robert understand that he was clinging to a fantasy and accept that he could make his reality better. "Robert: Lyanna disliked your drinking and your whoring. She was not the sweet flower you thought she was and accepted her duty but that's all she was going to give".

[purple-eyes]

 So what was it? It's gotta be protect Jon. If Ned tells the truth even Roberts court may be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize he's a Targaryen baby, or as Robert calls them, dragon spawn

Let us face it, his court should have already put 2 to 2 together if it is not for the sake of central mystery. 

Come on, Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna for one year, Lyanna was raped thousands of times, 3 KG died in red mountains. good old Ned took back a baby right after that to Winterfell and he had a possible age to be born by Lyanna. Ned refuse to say who is the mother. 

Do you need a rocket scientist to think about this is Lyanna's son?

people like LF and varys are incredibly stupid on this Jon issue due to the need of story plot. 

To tell Robert Lyanna dumped him and slept with Rhaegar willingly would not change this at all. 

rape or love-sex can make a child at same chance, if not more. 

 

[Lord Fauntleroy]

I don't know about whether Ned was in the right or not. I guess he could have told Robert, but then there's the question of whether or not Bobby would believe him. Stannis and Jon Arryn seemed to think Robert wasn't easily convinced of inconvenient truths, so maybe Ned thought along those lines. 

I may be in the minority here but I believe Robert himself is the main reason his marriage sucked. Cersei thinks to herself how she was happy with her marriage until Bobby started being a drunken sot and being abusive in the bedroom. I'm pretty sure all the Lyanna worship didn't help. 

[purple-eyes]

I don't know about whether Ned was in the right or not. I guess he could have told Robert, but then there's the question of whether or not Bobby would believe him. Stannis and Jon Arryn seemed to think Robert wasn't easily convinced of inconvenient truths, so maybe Ned thought along those lines. 

I may be in the minority here but I believe Robert himself is the main reason his marriage sucked. Cersei thinks to herself how she was happy with her marriage until Bobby started being a drunken sot and being abusive in the bedroom. I'm pretty sure all the Lyanna worship didn't help. 

Yeah, robert is a terrible husband for sure. 

Maybe only if he gets his beloved Lyanna as his wife, he will not abuse her and treat her well. 

Other than Lyanna, he seems to be cold-blooded to all the women and only use them as whores, including cersei his wife.

for him, everybody except Lyanna is kind of disposable. 

 

 

[SilentDystopia]

I think Ned should have said something. Even if Robert was too stubborn to listen, I mean at least try to. With Ned being the brother of Lyanna and foster brother of Robert maybe he would have believed. This would have helped a lot seeing how Robert would resent Lyanna and maybe (this is a big maybe!) he would try to love Cersei then again Im sure he would mess that up somehow and that would lead to the song of ice and fire :D!

Also peeps you have to understand the secret of Jon would have still been kept, a simple. "Hey Lyanna didn't want you so um yeah you shouldn't kill your marriage for a fantasy!!" no need to tell anything about Jon. Yes 2 and 2 = 4 BUT! Jon looks so much like Ned people will keep believing Jon is the bastard of Ned, "Unless your really smart like LF and/or Varys". Now if Jon had some Targaryen (purple eyes, platinum blond hair) in him I'm sure Ned would be in trouble O>O! 

If Ned said anything to Robert 4 things will(maybe) happen. 

1) Robert is so in love with Lyanna and stubborn he would think Ned is lying, ends up disliking Ned for some time and the Original plot happens (46% Chance)

2) Robert believes in Ned and he is so heartbroken about it that he still becomes a bad king, but he doesn't throw his love for Lyanna in Cersei's face, instead! He drinks whores and eats to his death thus the Original plot happens (42% Chance)

3) Robert believes in Ned he learns to resent Lyanna and try to find love with Cersei, but I feel like he would do something to piss off Cersei because I believe nothing satisfies Cersei, but Cersei. The Plot has a twist, Joffery is a true-born along with his siblings. Cersei kills Robert, Ned is to blame, Robb happens...blah blah blah (10%)

4) Robert believes in Ned and gives up on Lyanna thus falling madly in Love with Cersei, tries to give her the world, and Cersei being Cersei would find someway to hate him. So I say once again The Plot has a twist, Joffery is a true-born along with his siblings. Cersei kills Robert, Ned is to blame, Robb happens...blah blah blah (2%)

BTW! for 1-3 Robert is still a man whore and has those lovely 16 children/Bastards. As for 4? Prophecy be damned!

[purple-eyes]

I think Ned should have said something. Even if Robert was too stubborn to listen, I mean at least try to. With Ned being the brother of Lyanna and foster brother of Robert maybe he would have believed. This would have helped a lot seeing how Robert would resent Lyanna and maybe (this is a big maybe!) he would try to love Cersei then again Im sure he would mess that up somehow and that would lead to the song of ice and fire :D!

Also peeps you have to understand the secret of Jon would have still been kept, a simple. "Hey Lyanna didn't want you so um yeah you shouldn't kill your marriage for a fantasy!!" no need to tell anything about Jon. Yes 2 and 2 = 4 BUT! Jon looks so much like Ned people will keep believing Jon is the bastard of Ned, "Unless your really smart like LF and/or Varys". Now if Jon had some Targaryen (purple eyes, platinum blond hair) in him I'm sure Ned would be in trouble O>O! 

If Ned said anything to Robert 4 things will(maybe) happen. 

1) Robert is so in love with Lyanna and stubborn he would think Ned is lying, ends up disliking Ned for some time and the Original plot happens (46% Chance)

2) Robert believes in Ned and he is so heartbroken about it that he still becomes a bad king, but he doesn't throw his love for Lyanna in Cersei's face, instead! He drinks whores and eats to his death thus the Original plot happens (42% Chance)

3) Robert believes in Ned he learns to resent Lyanna and try to find love with Cersei, but I feel like he would do something to piss off Cersei because I believe nothing satisfies Cersei, but Cersei. The Plot has a twist, Joffery is a true-born along with his siblings. Cersei kills Robert, Ned is to blame, Robb happens...blah blah blah (10%)

4) Robert believes in Ned and gives up on Lyanna thus falling madly in Love with Cersei, tries to give her the world, and Cersei being Cersei would find someway to hate him. So I say once again The Plot has a twist, Joffery is a true-born along with his siblings. Cersei kills Robert, Ned is to blame, Robb happens...blah blah blah (2%)

BTW! for 1-3 Robert is still a man whore and has those lovely 16 children/Bastards. As for 4? Prophecy be damned!

you are right. 

It is possible Robert was too proud and stubborn to accept the reality.

he may just think ned is lying or misunderstanding. 

But if ned insist, he will likely hate lyanna (like Criston Cole and rhaenyra), then probably think woman can not be trusted, then he still hate cersei, somehow have more whoring and drinking and abusing. So in the end it is same. 

[purple-eyes]

Robert needed to be told the truth. His love for Lyanna was holding him back from being not only a person but an adult. I know he had more problems than just that, but this was very important.

Ned didn't need to tell anything about Jon or Rhaegar. Simply make Robert understand that he was clinging to a fantasy and accept that he could make his reality better. "Robert: Lyanna disliked your drinking and your whoring. She was not the sweet flower you thought she was and accepted her duty but that's all she was going to give".

exactly. 

Teach him a lesson.