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Alien: Covenant


AncalagonTheBlack

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

so in essence,this could be the episode VII of the alien franchise in the sense they are giving fans "what they want" after a flawed prequel that tired to be different?

they could also do "lost camera footage" as a style too.

This is a pretty bad analogy.  The SW prequels didn't fail trying to deliver something different.  They failed on executing a known backstory because of awful writing, a CGI shitstorm, and bad acting; due to bad writing and being forced to interact w/ a shitstorm instead of people.

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I was just talking to my brother (he and I have an in-joke about there never being an Aliens 3, what are you talking about, there totally wasn't...) about whether he preferred the "unstoppable, unknowable horror movie villain" Alien from the first movie or the action-suspense tour-de-force of Aliens. All he could say was that he preferred the Alien with a bit of mystery behind it (Prometheus disappointed him a lot). So I guess neither of us can choose which "Alien" we like better. 

I still haven't seen Prometheus, but everything I've heard makes it sound like a dark comedy. Another one to add to the Alien's list of genre films? And if we're going on that one, what was Alien:Resurrection? Maybe it's a Space Western because of the proto-Firefy characters (can't forgive this movie for wasting Michael Wincott, though.) 

I remember hearing that James Cameron wanted to do another Alien movie set on Earth, but that didn't fly. (and now I wonder who would win- the Aliens or the Na'avi folks from Avatar?) 

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29 minutes ago, Liver and Onions said:

I still haven't seen Prometheus, but everything I've heard makes it sound like a dark comedy. Another one to add to the Alien's list of genre films? And if we're going on that one, what was Alien:Resurrection? Maybe it's a Space Western because of the proto-Firefy characters (can't forgive this movie for wasting Michael Wincott, though.) 

I remember hearing that James Cameron wanted to do another Alien movie set on Earth, but that didn't fly. (and now I wonder who would win- the Aliens or the Na'avi folks from Avatar?) 

Prometheus is a fairly generic horror film, with a lot of spiritual symbology that raises far more questions than it answers. The Xenomorph half of the plot revolves around this dark liquid, and we learn absolutely nothing about it, my hope is that Covenant will reveal more, potentially making Prometheus better in hindsight. It's worth a watch because like everything Scott has ever touched it's beautiful, and Michael Fassbender is a gem, but the plot is very muddled, and the main lead not really very compelling. There's also a hilariously overblown reveal that is completely unnecessary.

Space Western Black Comedy I'd say for Resurrection.

The Aliens would destroy the Na'avi. The Xenomorphs act like a disease propagating through all living things (one of the things Prometheus explored slightly, them being a biological weapon) on a jungle planet (moon?) like Pandora they'd be unstoppable after a very short period of time.

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22 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

 

The Aliens would destroy the Na'avi. The Xenomorphs act like a disease propagating through all living things (one of the things Prometheus explored slightly, them being a biological weapon) on a jungle planet (moon?) like Pandora they'd be unstoppable after a very short period of time.

Now I almost want to see Na'avi Vs. Aliens vs. Predator. ^_^  I suspect fan art of a Na'avi born Alien has been done, but I am reluctant to Google such a.. perilous topic. 

I should check out Prometheus, although I have no real plans to see Covenant yet. Thanks for the info!

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23 hours ago, Liver and Onions said:

 

I still haven't seen Prometheus, but everything I've heard makes it sound like a dark comedy. Another one to add to the Alien's list of genre films? 

It's not a dark comedy it's a failed sci fi/horror with some mysticism tacked on. It does no justice to the films which went before it. It's not compelling, it's annoying. The only good thing you can say is that the scenes shot on location in Iceland are beautiful and Michael Fassbender is great. I feel irritated even talking about it tbh. 

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19 minutes ago, Isis said:

It's not a dark comedy it's a failed sci fi/horror with some mysticism tacked on. It does no justice to the films which went before it. It's not compelling, it's annoying. The only good thing you can say is that the scenes shot on location in Iceland are beautiful and Michael Fassbender is great. I feel irritated even talking about it tbh. 

Sorry to bring up bad memories - (I have similar feelings about Aliens 3, a movie that was never made :ph34r:) It just sounds like I would spend most of my Prometheus viewing experience either laughing out loud or going, "WHAT?" every five seconds.

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That's just nonsense though.

I get that some people dislike the concept of Alien 3 (ie the deaths of Newt and Hicks). I like it. Not on the same level as I like the first two films, of course.

I think the fourth one is terrible too. And so is Prometheus. In different ways. 

Alien 3 is not a failure as a film. Prometheus is. That's the difference. 

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There is still an atmosphere, a vibe that is intense, claustrophobic, clause to madness (all the cult thing, and the mystification of the xenomorph) that makes it to me a truly good movie. It could have been better, but in term of each film of the quadrilogy having its own unique vibe, I really like it (and I also really like Resurrection, flawed as well, sure, but full of gems !)

Anyway, I'm curious to see that new one, but yeah, call me purist maybe, but there is a continuity with the quadrilogy that makes it really hard for me to accept any other movie in that saga.

For me Prometheus is just some kind of alternative (mildly-enjoyable-but-that-could-have-been-far-better) universe... but the thing that I've always thought about Prometheus is that, despite it flaws, it could work as the first movie of a saga, as an introduction to something better and bigger, so I wonder if Covenant will prove me right or if it will be just a failed attempt at remaking the original Alien (with some influence from Aliens, maybe, as there seem to be a bunch of the movie taking place on land, but nothing more). 

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3 hours ago, Isis said:

It's not a dark comedy it's a failed sci fi/horror with some mysticism tacked on. It does no justice to the films which went before it. It's not compelling, it's annoying. The only good thing you can say is that the scenes shot on location in Iceland are beautiful and Michael Fassbender is great. I feel irritated even talking about it tbh. 

It is hilarious but the point, as you say, is that it's not intended to be. I think a big problem with the film is that they got Damon Lindelof to work on the story. Which I guess was them thinking "we want to do sci-fi mystery - let's get the "lost" guy" but is probably also why it's a bit empty and vacuous. [the conclusion of "lost" burned me to forever be skeptical of mysteries with no pre-thought out answers].

The good news is that no-one involved in writing Prometheus was involved this time. John Logan on the screenplay hopefully avoids some stupidity (although the trailer argues against that) and we have to hope that Michael Green learned a lot from writing "Green Lantern" otherwise we're in for a bad time with "logan" and "blade runner 2049".

1 hour ago, Isis said:

I did say that I was completely done with the franchise after Prometheus but I suppose I might,  might, go and see this. Or maybe wait for the DVD.

I'd usually say DVD but in this case it may be worth checking out at the cinema if initial feedback is good. Irrespective of how good people's home TVs are nowadays - some things are still better on a huge screen. Ridley Scott is usually one of those directors.

But if the film is garbage then screw it - there's plenty of other pretty things to watch without having to put up with a bad story.

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Al-Al-Land. (A musical about Ripley with a speech impediment, forever wanting to warn Earth about the xenomorph.)

Lethal Alien. (80’s style buddy cop comedy with the xenomorph pairing up with an ageing Samuel L. Jackson.)

How I met the Mother. (Sit com about a bunch of space marines.)

 

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5 hours ago, Isis said:

That's just nonsense though.

I get that some people dislike the concept of Alien 3 (ie the deaths of Newt and Hicks). I like it. Not on the same level as I like the first two films, of course.

I think the fourth one is terrible too. And so is Prometheus. In different ways. 

Alien 3 is not a failure as a film. Prometheus is. That's the difference. 

The consensus would seem to be against you.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/alien3

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/prometheus_2012/

I simply got more enjoyment out of Prometheus, and given the choice would pick it to rewatch any day of the week.

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Ehh Alien 3 was grim and unpleasant and disrespectfully killed off Hicks and Newt and for dessert killled off Ripley in a mediocre movie.  It deserves to be shat on heartily for those things alone.

 

I think people hate it disproportionate to its quality. 

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5 hours ago, Happy Ent said:

Lethal Alien. (80’s style buddy cop comedy with the xenomorph pairing up with an ageing Samuel L. Jackson.)

If you're doing a buddy comedy in this Universe, surely it has to be a xenomorph and a Predator having to team up?

Alien 3 is not a failure as a film. Prometheus is. That's the difference.

At least Alien 3 mostly makes sense. I think if it's judged as a standalone then it's a decent sci-fi horror film, I just don't like it as an Aliens sequel.

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Alien 3 is a pretty good movie in its own right. The major complaint people seem to have about it is that it killed off two characters from the previous film offscreen. But the ideas they had for the film simply wouldn't have worked with Hicks and Newt in the cast.

If the major complaint you can cite about a film is that the film-makers did something they knew audiences wouldn't like because they wanted to tread their own path, well, there are far worse sins. The film is a departure, as it should be. It has a great cast, an interesting setting, some smart ideas and some memorable, well-directed scenes. I haven't seen Prometheus so I can't compare, but Alien 3 is a solid film.

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My main complaint with it is that I never felt threatened by the alien, didn't care about any of the convicts, the final segment was just a mess of jumbled corridor shots and doors closing, I had no concept at all of where the Alien was. Sigourney Weaver as ever is great, and they had some interesting ideas, but there wasn't enough to salvage it. The Newt Hicks thing would have been fine if they'd replaced them with something worthwhile, but I don't feel they did.

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12 hours ago, williamjm said:

If you're doing a buddy comedy in this Universe, surely it has to be a xenomorph and a Predator having to team up?

I like it. Gung-ho xenomorph teams up with elderly Predator with dreadlocks, who speaks ebonics, and has “I’m too old for this, motherfucker!” as a catch phrase. I’d watch that.

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If given a choice, I'd rewatch Prometheus any day rather than Alien3. And that is after rewatching A3 a few years ago and thinking it was better than memory served. I was watching the film, not the sequel to Aliens.

I liked Prometheus, mainly because it wasn't an Aliens movie. If they had left out the xenomorphs, it would've improved the movie, tbh. The scene where (spoilering below since everyone hasn't watched it) sold the movie for me.

 

The scene where they met the Engineer sold it. Him looking from his feeble dying child to his child's creation encapsulated so much from Greek mythology in a single moment. The blasphemy of being eclipsed by your "child". The fear of being made obsolete by the next generation.

 

I get why people hate it. There really is some dumb science going on and a bunch of people set up just to die. The angst about the "straight" run at the end is misplaced, though. Looking from the side, yes, we scream "Turn!" but the perspective on the ground would never be that clear. Panic is too strong.

Just watch it from the perspective that David is the main character. Ignore Shaw's journey and watch his.

 

ignore. editing fail.

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