Would Ned Be upset with Lyanna?

[SilentDystopia]

If she lived and Rhaegar won against Robert(he is either killed or exiled to Essos) Would Ned Resent Lyanna? I remember reading something (i think on reddit) where someone said Rhaegar would have blamed everything on his father, tell Ned him and Lyanna are in love, and then lead him(Ned) to Lyanna. Then him and Rhaegar would have been cool with each other and Lyanna would become Rhaegar's wife (2nd because Tywin would not sack KL if Rhaegar won)

 

I THINK Ned wouldn't be so happy, he lost his brother, father, and now best friend just believe Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert.

Also this is just with the theory that she ran off with Rhaegar, if she was kidnapped this post would be super different; so please have the "she eloped" mindset when replying  

[purple-eyes]

If she lived and Rhaegar won against Robert(he is either killed or exiled to Essos) Would Ned Resent Lyanna? I remember reading something (i think on reddit) where someone said Rhaegar would have blamed everything on his father, tell Ned him and Lyanna are in love, and then lead him(Ned) to Lyanna. Then him and Rhaegar would have been cool with each other and Lyanna would become Rhaegar's wife (2nd because Tywin would not sack KL if Rhaegar won)

 

I THINK Ned wouldn't be so happy, he lost his brother, father, and now best friend just believe Lyanna didn't want to marry Robert.

Also this is just with the theory that she ran off with Rhaegar, if she was kidnapped this post would be super different; so please have the "she eloped" mindset when replying  

Ned loved Lyanna very much. He put her need over his own wife and let Cat being embarrassed and hurt for her whole life in order to make Lyanna happy. So I can see he will be OK with Lyanna even her irresponsible action lead the deaths of his father and brother as well as thousands of Northern people. He will probably just blame everything on Brandon himself and Aerys, not on Lyanna. 

 

 

 

[SilentDystopia]

Ned loved Lyanna very much. He put her need over his own wife and let Cat being embarrassed and hurt for her whole life in order to make Lyanna happy. So I can see he will be OK with Lyanna even her irresponsible action lead the deaths of his father and brother as well as thousands of Northern people. He will probably just blame everything on Brandon himself and Aerys, not on Lyanna. 

 

 

 

If so would Ned be in your good books?

[The Wolves]

Ned loved Lyanna very much. He put her need over his own wife and let Cat being embarrassed and hurt for her whole life in order to make Lyanna happy. So I can see he will be OK with Lyanna even her irresponsible action lead the deaths of his father and brother as well as thousands of Northern people. He will probably just blame everything on Brandon himself and Aerys, not on Lyanna. 

 

 

 

Where do you come up with this stuff? 

Ned did not embarrass or hurt Catelyn her whole life they were married for 15yrs. 

Nor did he put Lyanna's needs above Cat's he put Jon's needs above Cat's as he should have. 

And where do you get the idea that he would have been okay with her actions? 

[purple-eyes]

Where do you come up with this stuff? 

Ned did not embarrass or hurt Catelyn her whole life they were married for 15yrs. 

Nor did he put Lyanna's needs above Cat's he put Jon's needs above Cat's as he should have. 

And where do you get the idea that he would have been okay with her actions? 

OK, whole marriage life. 

he can do whatever he wants for Jon or Lyanna, but he should trust his spouse a little bit more and share this truth with her. It is in her own POV she said she was deeply hurt by Jon's stuff. And she died without even knowing the truth. Do not you think she deserves to know the truth? it is her marriage which was damaged, it is her feeling which was deeply hurt, it is her home which she had suffer a bastard son everyday. (keep in mind in westeros man should not bring a bastard back and raise them along with his true born children)

 

 

 

[redtree]

Where do you come up with this stuff? 

Ned did not embarrass or hurt Catelyn her whole life they were married for 15yrs. 

Cersei threatened to kill Bob's bastard if he ever bring her, Lord Hornwood sent his bastard to other house, it's pretty unusual to raise a bastard under your own roof. At one of her last chapters Cat wondered if Ned still love 'that woman',Jon Snow's mother, and that she was humiliated by Ned's choice. He hurt her but she had never said it out loud because she's a dutiful wife. 

Nor did he put Lyanna's needs above Cat's he put Jon's needs above Cat's as he should have. 

Nephew over wife and mother of his 5 children ? Hell yeah he should've put her above him

Even Cat had to pay the price for Rhaegar and Lyanna's actions long after they passed. Thank the 7 they both died, Rhaegar would've created 2nd Dance of Dragons. 

[The Wolves]

Cersei threatened to kill Bob's bastard if he ever bring her, Lord Hornwood sent his bastard to other house, it's pretty unusual to raise a bastard under your own roof. At one of her last chapters Cat wondered if Ned still love 'that woman',Jon Snow's mother, and that she was humiliated by Ned's choice. He hurt her but she had never said it out loud because she's a dutiful wife. 

Nephew over wife and mother of his 5 children ? Hell yeah he should've put her above him

Even Cat had to pay the price for Rhaegar and Lyanna's actions long after they passed. Thank the 7 they both died, Rhaegar would've created 2nd Dance of Dragons. 

Ned put the welfare of HIS child(Jon is Ned's son no matter his bio parents)above Cat's and so what contrary to some's beliefs Catelyn did not suffer because of Jon. Catelyn had a happy marriage despite Jon who didn't put a dent in her happy safe home and 5 healthy children  

 

Catelyn and the other mothers in this series have done many things to protect their children,some having major consequences and have harmed others even killing innocents to protect them and people defend their actions all the time. 

All Ned have done in the name of Jon Snow is fed, shelter, educate, protect, and love him without all the plotting, murder, and misery something no other parent ironically can claim in their mission to protect their children. 

[Alaynsa Starne]

Wouldn't Lyanna still have died even if Rhaegar won? The war didn't cause the infection, the childbirth did. 

EDIT: And yeah, maybe he might have been a bit miffed with Lyanna, but I think most of his anger would still be directed at Aerys. Who, you know, was the guy who actually killed his family. 

[redtree]

Ned put the welfare of HIS child(Jon is Ned's son no matter his bio parents)above Cat's and so what contrary to some's beliefs Catelyn did not suffer because of Jon. Catelyn had a happy marriage despite Jon who didn't put a dent in her happy safe home and 5 healthy children  

No not because of the existence of Jon himself but because of Ned's choice to raise Jon under their roof. If Jon were raised somewhere else i doubt Cat, the dutiful wife, would've been that shamed

Catelyn and the other mothers in this series have done many things to protect their own children,some having major consequences and have harmed others even killing innocents to protect them and people defend their actions all the time. 

All Ned have done in the name of Jon Snow is fed, shelter, educate, protect, and love him without all the plotting, murder, and misery something no other parent ironically can claim in their mission to protect their children. 

Every action has its own consequences, he couldn't have done that without shaming Cat. It's 2 side of the coins

 

And for the topic, i think he'd be upset. He would have gotten over it but would not forget it. I wonder what her reaction would be to know how Elia was raped and split in half and her children butchered to death. 

[purple-eyes]

Ned put the welfare of HIS child(Jon is Ned's son no matter his bio parents)above Cat's and so what contrary to some's beliefs Catelyn did not suffer because of Jon. Catelyn had a happy marriage despite Jon who didn't put a dent in her happy safe home and 5 healthy children  

 

Catelyn and the other mothers in this series have done many things to protect their children,some having major consequences and have harmed others even killing innocents to protect them and people defend their actions all the time. 

All Ned have done in the name of Jon Snow is fed, shelter, educate, protect, and love him without all the plotting, murder, and misery something no other parent ironically can claim in their mission to protect their children. 

the existence of jon snow at home not only means Ned's betray, but also means he loved his mother more than cat, (like lyanna and cersei to bob) this is something which hurt the wife mostly. It is a thorn in her heart forever. 

So yes, jon snow did put a damage to her marriage life which she does not deserve. 

Ned should raise jon at home and tell cat the truth. 

Or he should send his nephew to other place to raise. 

[A Ghost of Someone]

If Rheagar won and Lyanna lived, there would be a lot of explaining to do. Most likely Ned would have been executed by Rheagar or sent to the wall with Benjen so that Jon would get Winterfell when he grew up as he is Rheagar and Lyanna's son. Robb was already conceived by Ned and Cat and would have been hostage until he too could take the Black. I think Rheagar is Saintified way too much. He could have stopped the slaughter by trotting out Lyanna or a number of other things but he chose to fight and try and kill Ned, Robert etc. His lackeys, like Connington tried to do the same. Ned and Robert were innocent so they had no choice but to fight or die.  Lets face it, Lyanna's family was almost exterminated because of what happened, if she went willingly with Rheagar, that makes it worse, not romantic as some suggest because of all the tragedy that befell so many as a result of it. I think what happened with the promises that were obviously made by Ned was that to a dying sister from a noble, victorious brother.

[renatofq]

If Rheagar had won Ned would not be pissed, he would be dead. Lyanna too.

[purple-eyes]

If Rheagar won and Lyanna lived, there would be a lot of explaining to do. Most likely Ned would have been executed by Rheagar or sent to the wall with Benjen so that Jon would get Winterfell when he grew up as he is Rheagar and Lyanna's son. Robb was already conceived by Ned and Cat and would have been hostage until he too could take the Black. I think Rheagar is Saintified way too much. He could have stopped the slaughter by trotting out Lyanna or a number of other things but he chose to fight and try and kill Ned, Robert etc. His lackeys, like Connington tried to do the same. Ned and Robert were innocent so they had no choice but to fight or die.  Lets face it, Lyanna's family was almost exterminated because of what happened, if she went willingly with Rheagar, that makes it worse, not romantic as some suggest because of all the tragedy that befell so many as a result of it. I think what happened with the promises that were obviously made by Ned was that to a dying sister from a noble, victorious brother.

yes, I am always wondering why rhaegar did not try to contact Ned about Lyanna stuff and try to settle down things in a better way. 

And some people imagined that Rhaegar promised Lyanna he would spare Ned, which is indeed impossible to do. 

How to spare Ned? Ned is the chief leader of the rebellion. 

Can rhaegar give an order that nobody should kill Ned Stark? this is an incredibly stupid order to give before a war. I do not think he would make this order to his army. 

I mean, if rhaegar won, Ned would likely be killed by somebody like Barristan and lewyn Martell on trident. 

Rhaegar has no way to guarantee to save his life. 

So the conclusion is, Rhaegar is ready to kill both robert and Ned to save his kingdom. 

Lyanna would lose three family members plus Benjen will be sent to the wall. 

It seems to be a cruel thing to her.

And also this is why I am wondering how come Lyanna still love rhaegar at her last moment?

I mean, even she did not blame rhaegar on the death of Rickard and Brandon, 

She should know that rhaegar went out and tried to kill ned, right?

 

 

 

[TimJames]

Oh, Eddard would absolute hate her. 

He just lost his father, his brother, many of his friends, and way too many good men for him to count. And then he finds out that it is Lyanna's fault, that she feels no remorse, and that she's more than happy to piss on her family and everything it stands for? 

I wouldn't be surprised if this causes Eddard to snap, run Lyanna through with Ice, and completely give up on honor forever after. 

"Father and Brandon are dead because of you!" would be the last thing Lyanna ever hears.

[SilentDystopia]

Oh, Eddard would absolute hate her. 

He just lost his father, his brother, many of his friends, and way too many good men for him to count. And then he finds out that it is Lyanna's fault, that she feels no remorse, and that she's more than happy to piss on her family and everything it stands for? 

I wouldn't be surprised if this causes Eddard to snap, run Lyanna through with Ice, and completely give up on honor forever after. 

"Father and Brandon are dead because of you!" would be the last thing Lyanna ever hears.

This so much when I was reading the reddit post I was facepalming to all hell. And the fact that Ned would be cool buds with Rhaegar after everything? Makes me laugh even harder! 

[Wall Flower]

Actually, Ned considers that Brandon died because of his more than a touch of wolfsblood. Ned still loves him, builds him a statue in the crypt and names his son Brandon. Ned also knows a lot more about Lyanna and Rhaegar that we do but still continues to love Lyanna with all his heart, is strangely neutral about Rhaegar and prepared to commit treason to protect the couple's son. Whatever Lyanna had done, Ned was totally devastated by her death and would likely have given anything for her to have lived. Some of the posts above would require a complete personality change from Ned.

Even if Lyanna was at fault, that doesn't prevent her from feeling remorse, regret or grief. We know that she wanted to be buried alongside her father and brother.

[Anath]

Would Ned be upset with Lyanna? Most likely. Would he remain estranged from her forever? I doubt it. He has the amazing ability to delude himself about those he loves. Look at the way he lionized Robert to his children. Much is made of his disgust with Robert over Aegon and Rhaenys' murders but what did Ned, in fact, do? He shouted a little, made a demonstrative gesture of leaving, then rushed back to Robert after Lyanna's death and did his best to forget what Robert did, making him into this awesome hero deserving worship. Had Lyanna lived, with time he would have created a tale in his head where she was totally innocent. Her wolf blood would have been forgotten.

Actually, we don't know that Lyanna wanted to be buried alongside her father and brother. That's what Ned says and basically everything he told Robert about Lyanna's end was, most likely, a lie. Being buried in Winterfell might have been what Ned thought Lyanna wanted. And if she felt remorse, regret or grief, no such thing is ever shown as she died clutching the roses of the man who went off to fight in a battle that might have well cost Ned's life, without having the excuse that "it was Aerys who did it all, it wasn't Rhaegar". He left her with the specific intention to fight her brother, with a good chance that it would be to Ned's death. She kept the roses lovingly to die romantically holding them. Basically, she gave a last spit in the face of the North. Even Robert did something to show regret at his deadbead: he rescinded the order for Dany's death. If Lyanna felt some regret, it never prompted her to do anything to show that she was sorry, other than shedding a tear or two in front of Ned while busy clinging to the symbol of her love.

[purple-eyes]

Actually, Ned considers that Brandon died because of his more than a touch of wolfsblood. Ned still loves him, builds him a statue in the crypt and names his son Brandon. Ned also knows a lot more about Lyanna and Rhaegar that we do but still continues to love Lyanna with all his heart, is strangely neutral about Rhaegar and prepared to commit treason to protect the couple's son. Whatever Lyanna had done, Ned was totally devastated by her death and would likely have given anything for her to have lived. Some of the posts above would require a complete personality change from Ned.

Even if Lyanna was at fault, that doesn't prevent her from feeling remorse, regret or grief. We know that she wanted to be buried alongside her father and brother.

Honestly, Ned's undying and perfect love in Lyanna seem to be a little bit unreasonable, likely for the story use. for example, to give him reason to protect and raise Jon at home and hide information from Cat to protect the central mystery, etc.

If Lyanna abandoned her marriage and eloped with a married man, this is a dishonorable and disastrous action which almost made House Stark extinct plus thousands of Northern men died. Imagine if Jon Arryn did not raise the banner, then Ned will also die, and very likely Benjen too. Even Ned loved his sister very much and do not blame her, he should still harbor some hate in Rhaegar since he is a grown man. There is no possibility that Ned is so cool with rhaegar (unless Lyanna sold him into that PTWP prophecy). 

So the only reason I can think about is that GRRM did not want Ned to have a clear attitude towards rhaegar which will reveal his central mystery. Not because he did not hate Rhaegar. He has every reason to hate Rhaegar no matter Lyanna loved him or not. 

 

 

 

[SFDanny]

My take on this is different than most because I think Ned knew all along that Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar. Lyanna's character is one in which she displays her "wolf's blood" a number of times. I think this is one of those times. She tells Ned about what she thinks of Robert's character - and she is spot on about him - and we are left to wonder why a woman like her would willingly wed a man she had such doubts about. I think she not only tells Ned, but she also likely stands up for herself with her father, and Brandon, along with Ned. I would point out that when Brandon rides to King's Landing he does not demand his sister back. He just wants to kill Rhaegar. It looks like this for the "dishonor" the Crown Prince has done to House Stark by Rhaegar's interference in the marriage pact negotiated between the Starks and House Baratheon.

So, my take on this is that Ned IS angry with Lyanna when she goes off with Rhaegar and doesn't do her duty as Rickard, Brandon, and - at that point - Ned think she should have. What changes this is when Ned sees Robert accept Tywin's tribute of Elia and her children's bodies. "For a start, I don't kill children" Ned tells Cersei, and we should see this as his defining idea. What real honor is is to protect the innocent, or so Ned tells us. He breaks with Robert over this act, and rides out to not only end the war, but to find Lyanna. He does, and is confronted with the second moment in which transforms his world. His sister asks him, with fear in her eyes, to promise her something. It is when he agrees to do that thing that the fear goes away. I think it very likely that promise, or promises, involve taking Lyanna and Rhaegar's child and raising him as his own to protect the child from Robert's wrath. When he does that, he is no longer angry with Lyanna. 

My take on the OP's "what if" question is that if Rhaegar had won at the Trident, then Ned would have continued to be angry with Lyanna because the moments that change him would not have happened.

[purple-eyes]

My take on this is different than most because I think Ned knew all along that Lyanna went willingly with Rhaegar. Lyanna's character is one in which she displays her "wolf's blood" a number of times. I think this is one of those times. She tells Ned about what she thinks of Robert's character - and she is spot on about him - and we are left to wonder why a woman like her would willingly wed a man she had such doubts about. I think she not only tells Ned, but she also likely stands up for herself with her father, and Brandon, along with Ned. I would point out that when Brandon rides to King's Landing he does not demand his sister back. He just wants to kill Rhaegar. It looks like this for the "dishonor" the Crown Prince has done to House Stark by Rhaegar's interference in the marriage pact negotiated between the Starks and House Baratheon.

So, my take on this is that Ned IS angry with Lyanna when she goes off with Rhaegar and doesn't do her duty as Rickard, Brandon, and - at that point - Ned think she should have. What changes this is when Ned sees Robert accept Tywin's tribute of Elia and her children's bodies. "For a start, I don't kill children" Ned tells Cersei, and we should see this as his defining idea. What real honor is is to protect the innocent, or so Ned tells us. He breaks with Robert over this act, and rides out to not only end the war, but to find Lyanna. He does, and is confronted with the second moment in which transforms his world. His sister asks him, with fear in her eyes, to promise her something. It is when he agrees to do that thing that the fear goes away. I think it very likely that promise, or promises, involve taking Lyanna and Rhaegar's child and raising him as his own to protect the child from Robert's wrath. When he does that, he is no longer angry with Lyanna. 

My take on the OP's "what if" question is that if Rhaegar had won at the Trident, then Ned would have continued to be angry with Lyanna because the moments that change him would not have happened.

So he knew his sister eloped with a married man. 

He was angry because she did not do her duty and shamed his family. 

Then his father and brother plus 200 northern men were killed due to her eloping. 

then his head was ordered because Mad king was worried that he would revenge for his father and brother. 

Then he saw the wife and children of this married man (who his sister happily eloped with) were butchered

then suddenly he felt: oh, I am not angry with my sister, I need to love her from all my heart and do whatever she wants me to do?

seriously?

The only reason Ned forgave Lyanna is that she is dying. and the main reason Ned protected Jon is that he felt bad for rhaegar's children (and probably felt worse after he knew his sister's mad love caused their deaths). 

If Lyanna survived and lived with rhaegar happily, Ned will likely just pack the bones of his father and bother and 200 northern men, then tell her: I do not have a sister like you. You will never be welcomed in winterfell.