The Morality of Uber

[Fragile Bird]

I don't understand the support Uber gets from people, versus the hate Walmart gets.  As far as I can tell, both are largely evil, yet people I know who say they would never step foot inside a Walmart use Uber all the time.  I consider them both to be exploitive of workers and destroyers of local businesses.

I understand that people rave about the courtesy, the friendliness of Uber drivers, the cleanliness of their vehicles, the fact that they can use an app on their phone to get a ride, and the fact they like the ability to charge the cost on a credit card.  And every young person I know, the generation in their 20s and 30s, especially likes the cheaper price. 

Uber is called an example of the 'sharing' economy, which is nonsense.  The sharing economy is defined as peer-to-peer-based access to goods and services co-ordinated through community based online services.  Uber is a company that requires workers to supply their own tools (and very expensive tools they are) and doesn't  fully compensate them for that use.  For example, a friend used the app, and between the time a driver headed to him, picked him up and dropped him off, about half an hour passed.  The ride was $8.00, for which the driver would have been paid $6.00.  There's no way in hell $6.00 was adequate compensation for time and vehicle overhead.  At least Walmart employees get some benefits, or some Walmart employees get benefits, since they try to keep most employees part time without benefits.  In fact, Uber and Walmart fit hand in glove:  if you're an underpaid part-time worker at Walmart, you can supplement your earnings by being an exploited Uber driver.  Of course, you probably had another life sometime before, if you own a car.

Many of the Walmart haters talk about how they refuse to put another dollar of profit in the pockets of the Walton family, yet by using Uber, a company with almost no capital costs (since the workers put up all the capital) that takes a ridiculous 25% of the worker's earnings before any capital expense is factored in, these same people have made the CEO of Uber a multi-billionaire in the blink of an eye.  In fact, if you factor in the capital expenses associated with the car, the company probably takes 75% to 90% of the worker's earnings.

And while Walmart was labelled a disruptive and destructive force in the retail economy, accused of destroying the business sections of small towns across America, at least they employ people.  Uber has taken their rich profits and invested in driverless car technology, announcing they plan to have 500,000 driverless vehicles operating by 2030.  They are going to eliminate all those nice, friendly, courteous drivers and you'll be able sit there alone with your cell phone.  They'll have to set up depots, car barns for storage and maintenance, but how many people do you need to look after a hundred vehicles?  10?  20?

What do you think about the morality of the Uber and the Uber business model.  Why is using Uber different than shopping at Walmart?  This topic has been at the back of my mind for months now, and posting was triggered by a millennial friend who won't shop at Walmart but just loooooovves Uber.  In fact, she just posted that Facebook picture making the rounds, the one of the fellow holding a sign that's a veiled attack on Walmart, "Nothing says I love you like cheap crap made in China made by slave labor.  Sold by a company owned by billionaires benefitting from corporate welfare etc etc."

[Bonesy]

Because unlike taxi's, uber's usually show up and in a reasonable amount of time. That's been my experience in the SF Bay area and Louisville.

I still prefer public transportation, but sometimes you just can't.

[Hereward]

I've never used Uber. I will henceforth be lobbying for the Taxi Driver's Association with all the verve I currently utilise in backing the Lamplighters, Whalers and the Men Who Walk in Front of Horseless Carriages with a Red Flag. 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

The "sharing economy" is just a (stupid and dishonest) euphemism for big companies hijacking decentralized networks of service-providers and service-seekers and turning people who would otherwise be employees or owner-operators into independent contractors, allowing them to offload significant cost of operations onto their workers for minimal returns. 

The reality is that Uber is revolutionary and its model is in some ways inevitable. It's obviously disruptive to the current taxi cab industry, and I'm not sure that this, in and of itself, is a bad thing. Taxi cab "medallions" in big cities are already scarce resources, valued at hundreds of thousand of dollars hoarded by the wealthy to rent out to their workers. These taxi cartels DESERVE to be broken up. But if Uber is what ultimately replaces them, then we're looking at the total destruction of the ability of your average worker to earn a decent living as a taxi driver. 

[Theda Baratheon]

I have never used Uber and haven't really ever heard my mates talk about it except some american friends on facebook so I thought it was just some american thing. Just looked it up and wow...a few years old and already worth 40 billion ???? Crazy...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

FB,

Nestor makes a good point about the companies you are defending.  Further, if Uber is offering better service shouldn't the taxi companies attempt to improve their service?

[Hereward]

You use mythical creatures to find your way around an imaginary city? Nice.  

[Theda Baratheon]

You use mythical creatures to find your way around an imaginary city? Nice.  

i just edited my post but to clarify yes dragon taxis have never done me wrong in cardiff 

 

[Spring Bass]

Uber falls into the "necessary evil" category for me. They've been extremely useful in forcing discussion on reforms to highly regulated and exploitative taxi markets (especially the "medallion" issue), but I figure they'll either go out of business or eventually get regulated into a more conventional car service company with decentralized dispatch through the app rather than a central dispatcher. I say "go out of business" because Uber's business model is unsustainable - they're losing nearly $300 million/year, burning through the $1-2 billion in capital they've raised, and that's after dropping rates and increasing their cut of the fares to try and get more customers and revenue.

As for Walmart, I'm quite fond of shopping at Walmart. I'm fully aware that some of their sourcing is bad, and I won't buy certain products from them.

[Fragile Bird]

FB,

Nestor makes a good point about the companies you are defending.  Further, if Uber is offering better service shouldn't the taxi companies attempt to improve their service?

Wait, what companies am I defending?  I'm talking about the morality of Uber.  I don't doubt the taxi industry needs reforming, but I think a central question is, will one of them, the taxi industry or Uber, have to be destroyed for the other to survive?

The taxi industry in many places is one that thought it had a big enough moat around it to be here forever.  The moat was made out of the requirement to have a license, and then in order to ensure people could make a living wage, taxi companies convinced municipalities the number of licenses had to be limited, and the purchase of expensive vehicles.  No one dreamed that moat would be destroyed by a company announcing it didn't need licenses and didn't have to buy cars, because they have an app.  All the regulations and laws suits around the world haven't stopped Uber.  But is destroying the fat cat who holds taxi licenses in your community but follows the regulations your local government set in exchange for replacing him with a an uber-rich fat cat (pun intended) who ignores your local government's rules and regulations and replaces independent business with a mega-business that only uses freelance workers the way to go?  Is that right? 

[Fragile Bird]

I've never used Uber. I will henceforth be lobbying for the Taxi Driver's Association with all the verve I currently utilise in backing the Lamplighters, Whalers and the Men Who Walk in Front of Horseless Carriages with a Red Flag. 

You must love the CEO of Uber then.  Live by technology or die!  The rest of you are Luddites...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

FB,

Who are the "fat-cats" who own and run "Uber"?

[Hereward]

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I love technology or the CEO of Uber. I struggle with a typewriter and, I repeat, I've never used Uber and probably never will. But technology does render jobs redundant. I know this because it made mine redundant earlier this month. Attempting to reverse this has never worked out. 

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I have no love for Uber but if yellow cabs in New York go the way of the Dodo I won't be upset. 

[Seli]

Many people don't like (some of the services of) Uber, and the inherent exploitation and denial of responsibility they represent. Which is a reason they have withdrawn from some markets.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

It has positive effects as well

[S John]

Because unlike taxi's, uber's usually show up and in a reasonable amount of time. That's been my experience in the SF Bay area and Louisville.

 

I still prefer public transportation, but sometimes you just can't.

 

 

Yep.  Uber may be evil but I have little sympathy for Taxi companies when I've many times been screwed over waiting for one that doesn't show up or shows up late.  Uber shows up like 5 minutes after I request one, without fail.  I would even pay a little more for the service than what they charge, honestly.  As a consumer who has extensively used both taxi's and uber, one is unbelievably more reliable and convenient than the other one.  The only places I have been in the US where Taxi's are comparable to the convenience of Uber are New York and DC because you can walk outside and flag one down.  That's it.  Getting a taxi blows everywhere else.

When I first moved to Texas a couple years ago Uber wasn't available yet and it was taxi or bust for going out downtown on the weekends.  Taxi's here were (and presumably still are) terrible, couldn't get one at all half the time.  If you could get through they'll come pick you up in an hour or so if you are lucky.  If it's last call or something, that isn't going to cut it.  I'd be interested to see some drunk driving statistics since Uber came to town.  I'll bet lots of people who were likely to roll the dice and drive themselves in a questionable situation will now opt for Uber.  That alone is a good reason to keep it around when taxi services aren't capable of keeping up with demand for rides and public transport isn't pulling its weight.

[S John]

Give it 20 years and it'll all be a moot point anyway.  Soon Google self driving cars using the Uber model will come pick you up at your request and both Uber driver and Taxi driver will need to find another line of work.  

[Altherion]

Uber is undoubtedly exploitative, but the taxi companies are also exploitative -- the licenses have long ago been bought up by the wealthy and they do not pay their drivers any more than they have to. I don't see a moral difference between the two so if there is a practical difference (and it appears to be true in many cities), I don't see a reason not to use Uber (though I've never actually done it yet -- I usually either have a car or I'm in a city with extensive public transportation).

[Inigima]

There are two separate issues that conflated because people want a simple, overarching "x is good/bad" answer.

Issue #1: Taxis are a garbage service provided by garbage companies. They're not always around when you need them, they'll cheat you on purpose, lots of other problems. Taxis fucking suck and Uber provides a much better experience.

Issue #2: Uber's labor model is exploitative and disgusting. It's part of what's termed the "on-demand" economy, not the "sharing" economy, which refers to stuff like AirBnB. It is so called because labor is available and paid when needed ("on demand") and not paid when not needed. It's utterly unsustainable. Uber is worse than most as they are expected to provide all the resources. Uber also dodges regulations by claiming not to be something that they clearly are, which cities are trying to stop. It is difficult to do that, though, because taxis suck so fucking much and people don't want to be told not to use a service that's clearly better so that a service that sucks can enjoy the fruits of regulatory protectionism.

Conclusion: Fuck taxis and fuck Uber. I've never taken an Uber and I hope I'll never have to. Unfortunately that isn't an option for everyone everywhere.