Jaime leading Lannister troops as a KG

[teemo]

My friend thinks there's a continuity error in the first book with Jaime Lannister being a KG leading Lannister troops.  He says it makes no sense or follow continuity, because he's a member of the KG and especially with a newly crowned king should be in King's Landing.  He wanted me to post this for him.  Thoughts? 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

Kingsguard have led armies before. Granted they're usually done in the name of the King, but that wasn't a problem because /A) nobody was going to question Jaime anyway and /B) even if someone did question his actions he could just point out that Catelyn took his brother hostage and violated the realm's peace. His father is merely lending troops to the realm to deal with the rebels who would defend Catelyn's actions.

[TPTWP Timett]

With a Lannister queen plus what king floki said no big deal at all

[AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy]

My friend thinks there's a continuity error in the first book with Jaime Lannister being a KG leading Lannister troops.

Kings Landing has no standing army, just the Gold Cloaks.  So to me it's not unreasonable that a KG would help lead the Warden of the West's troops.  That being said, it's clearly a power grab by Jaime, a Lannister, that was SUPPOSED to leave his old house when he got the white cloak.  The books are filled with examples of that not happening

He wanted me to post this for him.

Tell your friend accounts are free to sign up

[sarah.jenice]

What Floki (love Vikings btw) said.

IIRC, Prince Lewyn led the Dornish troops to the Trident. 

Things seem different with Jaime because he leaves his post as a kingsguard to join his father before Robert is even dead. Once Joffrey becomes king, and the Lannister forces can be considered as soley operating on the crown's behalf, his leading the Lannister armies wouldn't have seemed so out of place, but he's Robb's prisoner by then. 

[Minstral]

What Floki (love Vikings btw) said.

IIRC, Prince Lewyn led the Dornish troops to the Trident. 

Things seem different with Jaime because he leaves his post as a kingsguard to join his father before Robert is even dead. Once Joffrey becomes king, and the Lannister forces can be considered as soley operating on the crown's behalf, his leading the Lannister armies wouldn't have seemed so out of place, but he's Robb's prisoner by then. 

Only if someone wasn't sleepwalking through the events that put him there, where he commanded Lannister men for a personal conflict and then fled the capital. Sure the excuse could be made, but the same could then be said of Clegane and the atrocities he committed in the Riverlands. Most of the nobles that would note his actions but take little steps to call him out on it so long as he had the powerful backing of his sister and father.

 

My friend thinks there's a continuity error in the first book with Jaime Lannister being a KG leading Lannister troops.  He says it makes no sense or follow continuity, because he's a member of the KG and especially with a newly crowned king should be in King's Landing.  He wanted me to post this for him.  Thoughts? 

That Jaime is violating oaths by leading Lannister troops is actually pretty much the point, and actually follows a "continuity". Many in power take note of the laws that exist and still break them in spirit or blatantly all the time, of which has been happening since antiquity to the present. If the it didn't "make sense in the continuity" then Renly would be bowing to Stannis, Tywin would be letting Tyrion inherit, and the Boltons and Freys wouldn't have instigated the massacre at the Twins.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

 (love Vikings btw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZnDBlWNFi0

[Wavey Sauce]

The main threat was out in the field, no immediate danger to the king in kings landing yet

[sarah.jenice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZnDBlWNFi0

Haha! Thanks! I really felt bad for him when his beautiful siege towers and leadership of the Paris invasion went to hell. Ragnar just skulks around giving him a satisfied "now you're getting what you deserve" face when he could have been lending a hand. Oh and I love Helga, too. She is one loyal, totally down with my husband's crazy type of wife. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Not really sure how this can be miscontrued as being a continuity error or treason or a mistake.

Jaime is a KG. His identical sister is the Queen. He was named Warden of the East by Robert. His nephew is the new king. In world, there is zero reason to believe he isn't acting on the crown's behalf. We know the RL had a force on the border to guard a pass. To the crown, who is a grandson of the LP of the Westerlands, that looks quite a bit like war. Why else muster troops in a time of peace? If anything Ned had been arrested for "treason" so the Tullys preparing to attack defend and Robb calling in his banners looks pretty bad. The KG leading troops against rebels is hardly unprecedented. LC Hightower led forces of the WL in the W9PK. 

No we as the readers know this is pretty much all horseshit, especially given Jaime fleeing in light of killing Ned's men and wounding him, but to literally anyone else it probably wouldn't bat an eye in world.

[Sullen]

 Jaime can claim to be acting in the name of restoring the King's peace, which Catelyn had arguably broken.

That Jaime is violating oaths by leading Lannister troops is actually pretty much the point, and actually follows a "continuity". Many in power take note of the laws that exist and still break them in spirit or blatantly all the time, of which has been happening since antiquity to the present. If the it didn't "make sense in the continuity" then Renly would be bowing to Stannis, Tywin would be letting Tyrion inherit, and the Boltons and Freys wouldn't have instigated the massacre at the Twins.

Renly doesn't have to bow to Stannis, Stannis was not the head of House Baratheon.

[Lord Lannister]

There's plenty of precedent for Kingsguard members commanding troops in battle. For example, at the Trident, Lewyn Martell personally commanded the Dornish force that fought for the crown. And as others have mentioned, Jaime can as easily declare he's acting on behalf of the king's justice, just as Catelyn did when she kidnapped Tyrion.

[Lion of the West]

I think its a fairly big point in that the whole issue of it is to show that Jaime don't give a fuck about his oaths or vows regarding the Kingsguard, which would fit very much with his character before he meets Brienne. That's essentially why he as a Kingsguard leads a Lannister army and why Eddard assumes that he will inherit after Tywin.

[Dorian Martell]

My friend thinks there's a continuity error in the first book with Jaime Lannister being a KG leading Lannister troops.  He says it makes no sense or follow continuity, because he's a member of the KG and especially with a newly crowned king should be in King's Landing.  He wanted me to post this for him.  Thoughts? 

How would it be a continuity error? He isn't anywhere else at  the same time.  the timeline is very simple, he ambushes Ned and then Flees to the Rock where he leads his father's bannermen. Where do you propose the continuity is flawed?

 

[WolfgangII]

Things seem different with Jaime because he leaves his post as a kingsguard to join his father

before Robert is even dead

. Once Joffrey becomes king, and the Lannister forces can be considered as soley operating on the crown's behalf, his leading the Lannister armies wouldn't have seemed so out of place, but he's Robb's prisoner by then. 

Exactly, I never understood why Ned didn't plea to Robert to summon Jaime back into King's Landing.

[Dorian Martell]

Exactly, I never understood why Ned didn't plea to Robert to summon Jaime back into King's Landing.

 

Bob's balls were kept in a small lock box in cersei's bed chamber as collateral for all the loans from teh rock 

[Sullen]

Exactly, I never understood why Ned didn't plea to Robert to summon Jaime back into King's Landing.

He thought that it was all calm down once Catelyn released Tyrion peacefully, I suppose.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Exactly, I never understood why Ned didn't plea to Robert to summon Jaime back into King's Landing.

 

Because Robert was pretty pissed with Ned. As far as Kings Landing knew Jaime had gone off to get his brother, Robert orders Ned to make his wife release Tyrion. That, in Roberts eyes, should be the end of it, thus the incompetent King goes off hunting. Ned ignores his order and all hell breaks out.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

That must be the weirdest form of entertainment ever: to create a topic after a topic beginning with "my friend thinks", and ending with a question you know perfectly well the answer to.

[talvikorppi]

I think the point is that after Cat seizing Tyrion, Tywin planned something slow and atrocious, but stupid, hot-headed Jaime, who really likes and loves his brother, screwed up Tywin's plans with his rash attack on Ned Stark and his men. Jaime had personal reasons and let them get the better of him.

Jaime's attack might not have been enough for a war if the parties weren't at each other throats already.

Jaime fled and next he turns up commanding Lannister troops. A case can be made that the Lannister troops were only defending the crown against rebels, so Crown troops.

Jaime isn't a particularly good military commander, anyway. He was a great fighter before he lost his sword hand, but not a commander. In AFFC we see him trying to be a good military commander, trying not to make the same rash mistakes he did when he got captured in the Whispering Wood, and then imprisoned for a year or more. He's trying to do good (with his new-found pursuit of honour and keeping his word and all that shit) but he's not actually very good at it. No-one takes his word on trust, why should they? The kingslayer, the man with shit for honour. Poor Jaime is battling an uphill battle here. He's reaping what he's sown in the past fifteen years or more. Who exactly is going to believe he's reformed? (Apart from us readers who can get inside his head.)

No one. Jaime Lannister will be known as the Kingslayer to end of his days. He could try to retrieve some honour in the eyes of the world but he won't do it. He knows it'll just sound like equivocating bullshit.