Jaime leading Lannister troops as a KG

[WolfgangII]

Bob's balls were kept in a small lock box in cersei's bed chamber as collateral for all the loans from teh rock 

He thought that it was all calm down once Catelyn released Tyrion peacefully, I suppose.

Because Robert was pretty pissed with Ned. As far as Kings Landing knew Jaime had gone off to get his brother, Robert orders Ned to make his wife release Tyrion. That, in Roberts eyes, should be the end of it, thus the incompetent King goes off hunting. Ned ignores his order and all hell breaks out.

I agree with all of that (even the bed chamber box thing), but my question is why Ned didn't plea for Robert to summon Jaime back? If Ned, Hand of the King, ask for Jaime, Robert will be put between a rock and hard place (or more like between the wolf and the lion). Jaime is bound by oath to obey his king, if he disobey Robert, he is breaking his vows and almost effectely becoming a rogue, outlawed knight. Robert would be pissed, and that might change Cersei's machinations.

Obviously, it could be that Robert shrug Ned petition and Ned will be dissapointed and angry with Robert, until his guts were pierce out by a boar (which is exactly what in deed happen).

[Dorian Martell]

 

 

I agree with all of that (even the bed chamber box thing), but my question is why Ned didn't plea for Robert to summon Jaime back? If Ned, Hand of the King, ask for Jaime, Robert will be put between a rock and hard place (or more like between the wolf and the lion). Jaime is bound by oath to obey his king, if he disobey Robert, he is breaking his vows and almost effectely becoming a rogue, outlawed knight. Robert would be pissed, and that might change Cersei's machinations.

Obviously, it could be that Robert shrug Ned petition and Ned will be dissapointed and angry with Robert, until his guts were pierce out by a boar (which is exactly what in deed happen).

 

Ned was elbow deep in a royal mystery and he was injured and high on opium. His Judgement was not very sound. It took Varys to convince him to take the black. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

 

I agree with all of that (even the bed chamber box thing), but my question is why Ned didn't plea for Robert to summon Jaime back? If Ned, Hand of the King, ask for Jaime, Robert will be put between a rock and hard place (or more like between the wolf and the lion). Jaime is bound by oath to obey his king, if he disobey Robert, he is breaking his vows and almost effectely becoming a rogue, outlawed knight. Robert would be pissed, and that might change Cersei's machinations.

Obviously, it could be that Robert shrug Ned petition and Ned will be dissapointed and angry with Robert, until his guts were pierce out by a boar (which is exactly what in deed happen).

Summon him back for what?

 

Ned has no idea that Jaime is off to lead an army and that war is about to break out in the Riverlands. And Robert has made it clear that he blames Ned as much as he does Jaime (if not more so) and has ordered them to make peace. I imagine Ned, who seems to severely dislike Jaime, is in no mood to do that any time soon. The longer Jaime is away probably suits Ned.

[good girl]

Wasn't Jaime named Warden of the East so was right to be in the field of battle. Robert also threatened naming Jaime Hand of the King so I don't think Kingsguard stops you holding other positions in service of the King.

[Celtic Cross]

I always thought it just showed Jaime not caring about his vows/the KG. He was just doing what he felt like doing. As far as how legal it was or how other people in the kingdom would be upset,  it's the same situation as when Cersei ripped up Robert's last will. Yeah, it was blatantly illegal and wrong, but what could anyone who knew better really do about it at the time?

 

It's almost a running subject in the first book that the Lannisters keep getting away with murder. 

[David Selig]

Given that Jaime is by far the worst KG member ever, it makes total sense. Of course he'd do whatever he pleases, his duties be damned.

[HexMachina]

Is this this the same fried who thought Rodrik a continuity error because he was a Northerner and a Knight? If so I would suggest this "friend" actually reads the books. Or stops trolling, one of the two.

[HexMachina]

Summon him back for what?

 

Ned has no idea that Jaime is off to lead an army and that war is about to break out in the Riverlands. And Robert has made it clear that he blames Ned as much as he does Jaime (if not more so) and has ordered them to make peace. I imagine Ned, who seems to severely dislike Jaime, is in no mood to do that any time soon. The longer Jaime is away probably suits Ned.

To do his actual job?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

To do his actual job?

Robert had gone hunting without most of his Kingsguard, he went on a 4 month journey to Winterfell with only 4 of his Kingguard.

 

Kingsguard are not required to be with the King every day, at least not under Robert.

[HexMachina]

Robert had gone hunting without most of his Kingsguard, he went on a 4 month journey to Winterfell with only 4 of his Kingguard.

 

Kingsguard are not required to be with the King every day, at least not under Robert.

So? You asked why he could call him back. I answered, to do his job. Instead of helping the continuation of a breach of the King's peace

[thelittledragonthatcould]

So? You asked why he could call him back. I answered, to do his job. Instead of helping the continuation of a breach of the King's peace

Sure, if Robert and Ned could see into the future they could have done that.

The last meeting between Ned and Robert there was no real conflict in the Riverlands outside of Cat abducting Tyrion, Robert had told Ned to order his release.

Ned had no real reason to order Jaime back, Robert was pretty lax and most likely did not care that Jaime was gone for a few days or even weeks.

 

Ned was not in a position to be telling Robert what to do at that point and he was still more interested in leaving the capital so demanding Jaime to return would not be on his mind.

[talvikorppi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the timeline of events go something like this:

1/ Cat seizes Tyrion.

2/ Jaime rashly attacks Ned over the Tyrion kidnapping and then flees KL, presumably to Casterly Rock and daddy.

3/ Tywin has his mad dogs harry the Riverlands (without banners) to provoke the Riverlords - presumably because Cat is a Tully by birth and Ned's lands are just too far away. I've always found this piece a bit odd.

4/ Riverlords, duly provoked, break the King's peace.

5/ King Robert dies.

6/ Tywin is fighting "rebels" in the Riverlands on behalf of the Crown.

7/ Tywin puts his eldest son, a KG, in charge of half his "Crown" army - KG have led Crown armies before, nothing unusual about that.

I'm not sure about 4/ and 5/, maybe they're the other way around.

The problem with Jaime isn't him eventually leading Lannister/Crown troops, it's him fleeing KL = abandoning his KG post for a while for a personal reason. By the time he's leading half of the Lannister/Crown army, he's all right. Nothing wrong with a KG leading Crown armies. The point is that at this point in time, Jaime is a shit who gives a fuck about honour or vows. Fleeing KL is the crime, leading Lannister/Crown armies is actually the right thing to do.

Not that he did it too well. He presides over military disasters for the Lannisters/Crown and gets himself captured, forcing Tywin to tread more carefully he might've done.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Fleeing KL is the crime,

Why is this a crime?

When Robert made his long, long journey to Winterfell he only took Jaime, Blount and Trant. The other four were not committing crimes by not being with him or the royal family for a number of months.

Obviously each King would be different, some would expect the Kingsguard to always be close the royal family and some, I expect like Robert, see them more as a ceremonial position. A nice PR move to impress the smallfolk. 

[talvikorppi]

Why is this a crime?

When Robert made his long, long journey to Winterfell he only took Jaime, Blount and Trant. The other four were not committing crimes by not being with him or the royal family for a number of months.

Obviously each King would be different, some would expect the Kingsguard to always be close the royal family and some, I expect like Robert, see them more as a ceremonial position. A nice PR move to impress the smallfolk. 

I was using the word "crime" figuratively.

[King of the Narrow Sea]

There's plenty of precedent for Kingsguard members commanding troops in battle. For example, at the Trident, Lewyn Martell personally commanded the Dornish force that fought for the crown. And as others have mentioned, Jaime can as easily declare he's acting on behalf of the king's justice, just as Catelyn did when she kidnapped Tyrion.

The difference is though that Lewyn and the others lead those armies as KG. Jaime on the other hand leads them as a Lannister, decked out in golden armor and wearing a red cloak instead of a white one.

Eons seemed to come and go. The sounds grew louder. She heard more laughter, a shouted command, splashing as they crossed and recrossed the little stream. A horse snorted. A man swore. And then at last she saw him … only for an instant, framed between the branches of the trees as she looked down at the valley floor, yet she knew it was him. Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black. He was not wearing a helm.

It's just one of the numerous examples of how pre-hand loss Jaime didn't really take his KG duties seriously and didn't acknowledge the fact that he hadn't been a Lannister for the last 17 years

[King of the Narrow Sea]

Why is this a crime?

When Robert made his long, long journey to Winterfell he only took Jaime, Blount and Trant. The other four were not committing crimes by not being with him or the royal family for a number of months.

Obviously each King would be different, some would expect the Kingsguard to always be close the royal family and some, I expect like Robert, see them more as a ceremonial position. A nice PR move to impress the smallfolk. 

I'd assume he meant "crime" because Jaime didn't have Robert's permission to leave (especially in those particular circumstances) and was therefore "abandoning" his duty to his king as he obviously wasn't off doing anything for Robert or guarding him. Selmy, Arys, Mandon, and Greenfield were all still in KL when Robert went north because Robert presumably had actually told them to stay there instead of come north and were therefore still doing their duty as they were following his orders (and at least Selmy would be helping to run the country in Robert's absence by being on the small council)

[Chancho]

Jaime was just a paper Kingsguard for a long time. I think he was ready to embrace his role as a Lannister at that point, defeat and everything else brought him back to the white cloak.