Will the Hound die for Sansa?

[warginfortheweekend]

I absolutely hate the idea of him dying for her. 

LOL. Haven't enough people died for Sansa?

[mdw4950]

I'm just happy to see that everyone in this thread seems confident that the Hound (or Sandor Clegane, as it were) will eventually return to play a part in the story. There seems to be an argument among ASoIaF fans that since Clegane was shown "at peace" on the Quiet Isle that his part in the story has ended. I, however, am skeptical of that -- because since when does Martin write happily ever after afters for his characters? 

Anywho, back to the original question: Would Sandor sacrifice himself to save Sansa? I believe he would. But I think it's more likely he'll kill for her. (Although count me among those who would love to see HER kill for HIM.)

sandor being 'at peace' used to have a stronger following (at least from what ive noticed) but it seems like most people have agreed that he will make a full return in some form or another. hes basically the definition of a supporting character but gets a lot of attention. in agot he comes off as a no nonsense, lannister tough guy that has a grudge against the world. in acok he brings more depth to sansa while shes in kings landing and further puts the idea in the readers head that there arent really 'good and bad guys' in this story. in asos he helps aryas story go from westeros to braavos.

granted thats a generalization and he does get a lot of character development but these arent really huge plot points though. the overall story would basically be unchanged if he wasnt around. ned still gets killed, joffrey still becomes king, tywin still saves kings landing from stannis, sansa still escapes with dontos, arya would find another route to braavos, ect. he didnt play a big role in roberts rebellion, he didnt kill any important characters; he was basically just the lannisters 'dirty work' guy and joffreys shield leading into agot. arguably his biggest 'what if' as far as the plot goes is gregor possibly killing loras. 

with that said, for a supporting character he gets mentioned a lot. ya, brienne thinking hes still 'alive' and has sansa ups that count but thats also two books he doesnt appear in (not going to technically count his gravedigger scenes since he doesnt appear as the hound) where hes still a main focus. hell, hes talked about more than some major players and pov characters.

i feel like martin has kept mentioning him for a reason. it would be different if he was being used as just a plot point for jaime and briennes story but we also get a lot of quotes about how dangerous the hound is and some more insight to his character. brienne mentions to lem that wearing the hounds helmet doesnt make him the hound, thoros says that same helmet still scares him, jaime has lines about how lyle crakehall would have 0 chance against the hound along with his pray hard and run line should they encounter him and of course the elder brothers monologue about sandor. things like that. this isnt like giving more time to rhaegar, ned, robert and so on whos actions really helped form the base of the story.

imo hes one of the biggest x factors in the remaining plot. i dont think him returning is much of a question but more how he will return. does his leg heal, is he actually religious now, was he simply using the quiet isle as a place to recover, maybe he had redemption in mind but well get some cheese line about how some dogs cant be tamed and he just says f-it and leaves lol. he has a couple foreshadowing lines too that could play out different ways. back to this topic, when robert says 'get her (sansa) a dog. shell be happier for it' is that describing his time with her in kings landing or future events? what about beric saying the lord of light has further plans for him? what about brans shadow dream with (likely) jaime and robert strong? lots of possibilities and i get the feeling his story arc will definitely involve sansa somehow.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

I like the idea of the QI as a way for Sandor exiting the stage in a bittersweet style that does not involve death but the potentials of life instead. I don't think it's necessary from literary standpoint to have him back, IMO his arc has gotten to a satisfactory closure. That said, if GRRM intends to call him back to action, he has certainly laid the background for it. Though I'd prefer it to stay as it is, with QI gravedigger as an easter egg for Sandor's fate.

[Clegane'sPup]

We know there is a special relationship between Sansa and the Hound. So does anyone else think he will die saving Sansa or something ? 

Oh hell no. Just no. If I read anything about Clegane sacrificing his life to save the Little Bird it would cause me spew a long list of profane words. Besides he already told her what’s what in Westeros.

There are no true knights, no more than there are gods. If you can't protect yourself, die and get out of the way of those who can. Sharp steel and strong arms rule this world, don't ever believe any different.

And I’m still mad at Arya for leaving him to die. Sansa did say a prayer for him “Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him.”  So maybe the Quiet Isle is the better ending for Sandor.

Then on the other hand, I’m kinda holding on to the idea that he is biding his time, recuperating and contemplating.  There is still more to be revealed about the Quiet Isle and Elder Brother.

If Martin decides to put Sandor back in action I hope it is along the lines of clearing his name, and returning to Clegane’s Keep with a lusty, feisty big boned woman who could give him a bunch of children [pups] to raise. A dream of spring and new beginnings.

 

[Scorpion92]

Sandor is not the only one who is going to die for Sansa at the end of the saga. There is going to be 7vs7 trial by combat for Joffrey's murder. Sansa's team of Arya, Sandor, Brienne, Podrick, Loras Tyrell, Bronn and Jaime will engage Cersei's team of Robert Strong, Ilyn Payne and 5 other Kingsguards. Everyone will end up dying after this trial except Jaime, Cersei, Arya and Sansa. Jaime will go on to stop Mad Cersei from burning King's Landing with wildfire, but will be unsuccessful unlike the time he stopped Mad King. The twins will die killing each other, Jaime strangling her to death, while Cersei stabs him fatally with his own weapon (thanks to amazing Mithras for this foreshadowing).

And I am serious, this is not fanfic. I can go into hows and whys for each character to be present there, but it is going to be a HUGE wall of text. I actually should open a new thread discussing this.

[Nevets]

Sandor is not the only one who is going to die for Sansa at the end of the saga. There is going to be 7vs7 trial by combat for Joffrey's murder. Sansa's team of Arya, Sandor, Brienne, Podrick, Loras Tyrell, Bronn and Jaime will engage Cersei's team of Robert Strong, Ilyn Payne and 5 other Kingsguards. Everyone will end up dying after this trial except Jaime, Cersei, Arya and Sansa. Jaime will go on to stop Mad Cersei from burning King's Landing with wildfire, but will be unsuccessful unlike the time he stopped Mad King. The twins will die killing each other, Jaime strangling her to death, while Cersei stabs him fatally with his own weapon (thanks to amazing Mithras for this foreshadowing).

And I am serious, this is not fanfic. I can go into hows and whys for each character to be present there, but it is going to be a HUGE wall of text. I actually should open a new thread discussing this.

Yes, you probably should make a thread, but I'll make a few comments here.  First, Loras, Jaime, and Robert Strong are all current members of the Kingsguard, so there are only 4 remaining, not 5.  Osmund Kettleblack is imprisoned by the Faith, so will probably not be available, and Balon Swann is in Dorne, chasing after Darkstar.  Getting him back could be difficult, if he even survives.

As for Loras, he told Jaime that he believes Margaery was also a target, and that Sansa was responsible.  No way is he going to fight for someone he thinks tried to kill his sister, so he would probably be on Side Cersei, assuming he is OK after Dragonstone.  Also, Podrick can't fight at all, and Arya is probably too small and underskilled to count on, especially if your (Sansa's) life is at stake.  That's all for now, but in its current configuration, Side Sansa gets curb-stomped.

[Scorpion92]

Yes, you probably should make a thread, but I'll make a few comments here.  First, Loras, Jaime, and Robert Strong are all current members of the Kingsguard, so there are only 4 remaining, not 5.  Osmund Kettleblack is imprisoned by the Faith, so will probably not be available, and Balon Swann is in Dorne, chasing after Darkstar.  Getting him back could be difficult, if he even survives.

As for Loras, he told Jaime that he believes Margaery was also a target, and that Sansa was responsible.  No way is he going to fight for someone he thinks tried to kill his sister, so he would probably be on Side Cersei, assuming he is OK after Dragonstone.  Also, Podrick can't fight at all, and Arya is probably too small and underskilled to count on, especially if your (Sansa's) life is at stake.  That's all for now, but in its current configuration, Side Sansa gets curb-stomped.

If you compare my scenario with Trial by Seven at Ashford tournament, then you will see many paralells between characters.

Fossoway cousins really foreshadow Ilyn and Podrick's eventual fight, and I think Jaime is going to knight him before the trial, just like Lyonel did. I also think Podrick is going to help Arya with Ilyn during the fight (Ilyn is on Arya's list) and get himself killed.

Regarding Loras, after incoming Lannister-Tyrell conflict, I don't think Loras will be fond of Cersei, especially if he got injured then Cersei is partially responsible for that as well. Remember that Loras gave Sansa a red rose at Hand's tourney and was almost killed by the Mountain before being saved by the Hound, I think it means a lot great deal on whose side he will be fighting. Going with Ashford trial, I think Loras's fate is foreshadowed by Humfrey Hardying character. Plus, a little tidbit, but still, Brienne and Loras were both part of Rainbow Guard of Renly, I don't think they would be on opposite sides in this one, especially after Loras was sure she did not kill Renly.

I don't know what you mean by underskilled or too smal, but Arya I expect by the end of a saga will be a badass water dancer and skillful sword wielder, so she will have all the tools to take on experienced knight like Ilyn Payne, especially if she has Podrick helping her.

Regarding 5 other Kingsguards, who said anything about them being the ones we have now? How many new knights joined and left Kingsguard during this series? I actually don't expect Balon Swann to survive the whole Areo-Darkstar-Obara trio (he will take Areo Hotah with him to the grave though). Going with my Ashford parallels, there were three Kingsguards and three Targaryen brothers on Team Aerion. I think this time around we will have 3 brothers, whose sigil include the same colors as those of 3 Targaryen brothers and who are Kingsguard to Cersei, facing Sansa's team, but I am not sure.

So here we will have:

Cersei's champions: Robert Strong, Ilyn Payne, 3 Kettleblack brothers and two more I am not sure about.

Sansa's champions: Arya, Sandor, Brienne, Podrick, Jaime, Bronn and Loras.

Unlike the trial by seven in Ashford tournament, this time around the result will be mirroring of King Maegor's trial by seven. Thirteen will be dead by the end with only one survivor. And my money is on Arya surviving this battle,  then she and Sansa will escape the burning King's Landing, the city both Stark girls never wanted to come back to, but were forced to.

[ultravioletgaia]

I always thought Sandor was based on Huan the Hound of Valinor, a character in LOTR

• Both of them 'rescued' a fair maiden who loved songs (Luthien and Sansa)
• Both of them served a villain (Celegorm and Joffrey)
• Both of them took pity on the said maidens and offered help  
• Both of them abandoned their masters bec. they're 'tired of being kicked' 
• Huan the Hound was killed bec. he saved Luthien, so maybe Sandor will die for Sansa too. although their difference is Huan is a real dog while Sandor is a human.

[Viking]

A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he’ll look you straight in the face.

 The OP makes sense. 

The foreshadowing around Sandor seems to indicate, to me at least, that he'll become a true knight, kill his brother and die for Sansa. I'm not sure in what order but I think dying for Sansa is last.. unless he dies becoming a true Knight of the Great Other before killing his brother?

[SevasTra82]

 The OP makes sense. 

The foreshadowing around Sandor seems to indicate, to me at least, that he'll become a true knight, kill his brother and die for Sansa. I'm not sure in what order but I think dying for Sansa is last.. unless he dies becoming a true Knight of the Great Other before killing his brother?

His brother is a headless, animated corpse....not much there to "kill" anymore.

[The Great and Mighty Poo]

I like the idea of the QI as a way for Sandor exiting the stage in a bittersweet style that does not involve death but the potentials of life instead. I don't think it's necessary from literary standpoint to have him back, IMO his arc has gotten to a satisfactory closure. That said, if GRRM intends to call him back to action, he has certainly laid the background for it. Though I'd prefer it to stay as it is, with QI gravedigger as an easter egg for Sandor's fate.

couldnt agree more. Example of said arch: Logan Ninefingers.

[Jaime4Brienne]

Sandor is not the only one who is going to die for Sansa at the end of the saga. There is going to be 7vs7 trial by combat for Joffrey's murder. Sansa's team of Arya, Sandor, Brienne, Podrick, Loras Tyrell, Bronn and Jaime will engage Cersei's team of Robert Strong, Ilyn Payne and 5 other Kingsguards. Everyone will end up dying after this trial except Jaime, Cersei, Arya and Sansa. Jaime will go on to stop Mad Cersei from burning King's Landing with wildfire, but will be unsuccessful unlike the time he stopped Mad King. The twins will die killing each other, Jaime strangling her to death, while Cersei stabs him fatally with his own weapon (thanks to amazing Mithras for this foreshadowing).

And I am serious, this is not fanfic. I can go into hows and whys for each character to be present there, but it is going to be a HUGE wall of text. I actually should open a new thread discussing this.

I can't believe I hate this idea even more than I hate Sandor giving up his life for Sansa. So Jaime, Brienne. Poor Podrick, Loras, Ayra and Bronn are all going to fight for Sansa and risk their lives? I triple hate it!

[Annarkie]

I can't believe I hate this idea even more than I hate Sandor giving up his life for Sansa. So Jaime, Brienne. Poor Podrick, Loras, Ayra and Bronn are all going to fight for Sansa and risk their lives? I triple hate it!

Me too! None of them have any real attachment and development with Sansa in person. For them to die for her would ring hollow.

And although there could be plenty reason for Sandor to die for Sansa, I don't think it's going to happen simply because he's already "died." Killing him twice would be lazy. Also, the whole point would kind of be a cliche. Sansa might end up dying for him. I don't like that either, but it would be a decent trope subversion.

Honestly I hope Sansa and Sandor reunite, give the game and system that's been screwing them over a giant middle finger, and run away to live out their lives in peace.

[LongRider]

I'm just happy to see that everyone in this thread seems confident that the Hound (or Sandor Clegane, as it were) will eventually return to play a part in the story. There seems to be an argument among ASoIaF fans that since Clegane was shown "at peace" on the Quiet Isle that his part in the story has ended. I, however, am skeptical of that -- because since when does Martin write happily ever after afters for his characters? 

Anywho, back to the original question: Would Sandor sacrifice himself to save Sansa? I believe he would. But I think it's more likely he'll kill for her. (Although count me among those who would love to see HER kill for HIM.)

Sandor wasn't shown 'at peace' on the QI and the Elder Brother told Bri he was "at rest."  I think Sandor would kill for Sansa, but die for her?  Maybe.

[Fire Eater]

Honestly, I think his entire plotline is done and over with, that goes for both Sandor and The Hound.

He's a great character and is (rightfully so) very popular, but honestly, all his plot threads are completed, his story line is all but finished, and there really is not anything else for him.  Sure, GRRM can easily pull him back into the main storyline if he wanted to, but at this stage of the story and only two books left...what's the point?  The Hound is "dead" and Sandor is now lame with a limp and burying his demons.  It's a very bittersweet way for him to go out, and I hope it stays this way.

I do think it leaves GRRM a unique character to write a few short stories about.  Imagine getting some Dunk/Egg kind of novellas out of Sandor Clegane's new life after ASOIAF is completed.  Lots of opportunities there.

Except then what is the point of Sansa's feelings for Sandor in ASoS and beyond? Like every tale of courtly romance, the knight will return from his journey after leaving his lady love, and then return, only to die. 

I think Sandor would sacrifice himself to save Sansa. I think he will rescue her, and take a mortal wound. 

[ArabellaVidal]

Sacrifice his life for Sansa? I hope not. But I do think she is the only reason he would come out of retirement. Otherwise there would be no point to that entire storyline.

[chrisdaw]

Sandor simply coming back and dying heroically for Sansa doesn't run with the themes at play. He deconstructed the True Knight fairytale for Sansa and the reader, showed that such idealism is rare and difficult rather than the norm, it's remarkable, special, perhaps even impossible. It's a set up, so that when he does return his elevation to a True Knight has all the more impact. But to simply die heroically for Sansa doesn't run in line with why the True Knight is so rare and remarkable, that's easy, there's no conflict when the ideals and love are in parallel, if being a True Knight was so easy as dying for the one you love there'd have been many a True Knight. The conflict, and therefor the drama, is where they don't, when it's difficult to live up to the ideals, where the True Knight must sacrifice love to retain their honour.

 

Sandor will fight and kill for Sansa where it lines up with his ideals, but he will live long enough to have to decide if he'll throw away his honour and duty for his love of her. Sansa will live to see a True Knight, to love and be loved by a True Knight, only to have it that being a True Knight he won't sacrifice his honour or abandon his duty for her.

[Aint Nuthin But A HoundDog]

Regarding his leg injury/lame leg/whatever -- whether it heals completely or not -- I think that's a non-issue. As long as he can still swing a sword and ride a horse, he's still a pretty good fighter. 

[Aint Nuthin But A HoundDog]

Sandor wasn't shown 'at peace' on the QI and the Elder Brother told Bri he was "at rest."  I think Sandor would kill for Sansa, but die for her?  Maybe.

Maybe I didn't phrase it properly. I just meant that -- assuming the Gravedigger is Clegane -- that many believe he's found some sort of inner peace and isn't interested in fighting anymore. More likely (and I can see them taking this route on the show, if not the books) he's just hiding out there while he recuperates and pretending that he's found religion, ha. 

[Keltess]

 

Oh hell no. Just no. If I read anything about Clegane sacrificing his life to save the Little Bird it would cause me spew a long list of profane words. Besides he already told her what’s what in Westeros.

And I’m still mad at Arya for leaving him to die. Sansa did say a prayer for him “Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him.”  So maybe the Quiet Isle is the better ending for Sandor.

Then on the other hand, I’m kinda holding on to the idea that he is biding his time, recuperating and contemplating.  There is still more to be revealed about the Quiet Isle and Elder Brother.

If Martin decides to put Sandor back in action I hope it is along the lines of clearing his name, and returning to Clegane’s Keep with a lusty, feisty big boned woman who could give him a bunch of children [pups] to raise. A dream of spring and new beginnings.