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Boarders Writing A Novel: Volume 14 A Memory of Civility


SpaceChampion

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Does anybody else have a problem with sticking to a scene/writing in order? I've been writing this short story that is now turning into a novella but the problem is I keep thinking of new interesting scenes to write other than the scene I'm currently writing. 

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Perhaps it's your subconscious telling you there is something wrong with the scene you're currently writing.

What's stumping you? Motivations? Lack of conflict? Is there a bridge missing between the previous character decision and the one s/he is making now? Or is the scene even needed? Can you skip it, and work in the relevant details later?

I've written scenes out of order before because when something comes in so clearly I feel I "must" write it now, I know to go with it. And I've also found that when I'm stuck on a scene, there is a story reason why as often as not.

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I ordered a new journal to write in, and somehow the order got messed up in between adding it to the cart and paying for it. Yay. Somehow, I didn't noticed until it got delivered in the wrong size....Yay. And I am 100% certain that I put it in the cart in the size I wanted, because I had to redo it a couple of times because for whatever reason, the site only accepted payment from my paypal account, and not my visa.

My resolution to write 900 words a day (ca 5 pages in the journals) has also hit a snag in the form of writing an essay for one of my classes that needs to be turned in on Friday. I started today. (I didn't get my textbook until Friday last week, and spent time writing instead of studying the first couple of days...) On the other hand, it's a book on linguistics, so I've got some much needed entry-level writing on languages to consider when constructing the language(s) for the series, instead of having to rely on Wikipedia where it's assumed you know every single term already...

In slightly less frustrating news - I've got over 40k words written now, yay!

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4 hours ago, Hrokkan of Skagos said:

Anybody else have a bunch of great ideas for your story, but with no clue in hell on how to weave them together properly?

Yes. My problem is. I have the characters down how Ilike them, but I'm stuck going. "Well what if I tell the story this way,  no wait scrap those 10 chapters. What if I start this way instead...no wait.  Yours a similar problem? 

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6 hours ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

Yes. My problem is. I have the characters down how Ilike them, but I'm stuck going. "Well what if I tell the story this way,  no wait scrap those 10 chapters. What if I start this way instead...no wait.  Yours a similar problem? 

Yes I find myself in that position quite a lot. Previously, I would actually right all those chapters, and then push them aside and start over after months of work. Now I'm trying to outline it all out until I get it to a point where I'm satisfied. That way if I change it, its more like rearranging a few weeks worth rather than re-doing several months' worth of work.

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2 hours ago, Hrokkan of Skagos said:

Yes I find myself in that position quite a lot. Previously, I would actually right all those chapters, and then push them aside and start over after months of work. Now I'm trying to outline it all out until I get it to a point where I'm satisfied. That way if I change it, its more like rearranging a few weeks worth rather than re-doing several months' worth of work.

It's annoying isn't it. The way I combat it, is taking those ideas, and write them down in the context of being another book. You can still write those ideas, but they don't have to be THE one you write now.  Easier said than done though.

 

I'm not one for outlining. I have a few scenes worked out in my head and how to get there. Some problems are solved by raising the age of some characters and lowering the age of others.  I recently wrote 37 thousand words and stopped, in the middle when I realised I have three Journey arcs. Two which end right before they reach their goal and would be picked up in book 2. And one which consisted of character A going to place B and picking up character c and taking back to place A. So not really a coheriant plot. So I'm currently wrangling it to give it a more solid definable plot.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of these people who can finish a project then go back and change things plotwise. I can write 100, 000 words, but if I realise at point 100, 001 that a plot arc doesn't make sense, I have to start from word 0.

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Sorry to double post.

 

Would you find it annoying that even though a few years might pass between two books, that the characters are effected by events from previous events related to the first book but not actually shown?

 

Example. Book one is about war.

Book two is set after that war, but the events troubling the characters happened after the book ended?

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50 minutes ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

Sorry to double post.

 

Would you find it annoying that even though a few years might pass between two books, that the characters are effected by events from previous events related to the first book but not actually shown?

 

Example. Book one is about war.

Book two is set after that war, but the events troubling the characters happened after the book ended?



Well, put it this way: GRRM was going to include such a time-gap in his series, but decided it needed to be filled in. The result was aFfC/aDwD.

Don't be like GRRM. Include a time-gap, if you think it necessary.


Quite a few authors nowadays do this, to be fair. I don't find it annoying at all, though it's certainly a thing that needs extra craft to get right.

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5 hours ago, Andrew Gilfellon said:

Sorry to double post.

 

Would you find it annoying that even though a few years might pass between two books, that the characters are effected by events from previous events related to the first book but not actually shown?

 

Example. Book one is about war.

Book two is set after that war, but the events troubling the characters happened after the book ended?

Depends what they are troubled about, and how it troubles them. Something like war, yeah, works no problem really, they are probably going to be troubled by the war and its ramifications for a long time. But death of a relative or someone close, less so. After a few years, that is less likely to be a constant trouble to them, and just be an ocassionally thought. 

So no, wouldn't annoy me as long as it wasn't stupid for the character to still be dwelling on what happened

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There are tons of books with time jumps within the same book. 

Do what the story requires. Just don't feel like you need to info dump the gap events. Treat book two as you should be treating the beginning of book one: in medias res

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On 6/22/2016 at 11:43 AM, DjourouLoveMe? said:

Well, put it this way: GRRM was going to include such a time-gap in his series, but decided it needed to be filled in. The result was aFfC/aDwD.

Don't be like GRRM. Include a time-gap, if you think it necessary.

Quite a few authors nowadays do this, to be fair. I don't find it annoying at all, though it's certainly a thing that needs extra craft to get right.

Yup. As well, I think that Fantasy in general is a genre where time-jumps are a particularly integral part of the story telling structure. I mean, baring magic or some kind of semi-mechanical workaround [or whatever] that allows for quick communication and/or 'faster' than normal travel-- you need to incorporate them to one extent or another in order to keep the pace ticking along.  

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On 26/06/2016 at 1:08 PM, JEORDHl said:

Yup. As well, I think that Fantasy in general is a genre where time-jumps are a particularly integral part of the story telling structure. I mean, baring magic or some kind of semi-mechanical workaround [or whatever] that allows for quick communication and/or 'faster' than normal travel-- you need to incorporate them to one extent or another in order to keep the pace ticking along.  

Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings has a 17 year jump at the beginning (edited out in the Jackson adaption).

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On 7/3/2016 at 0:07 AM, Let's Get Kraken said:

So I wrote almost exclusively short stories and novellas for the past two years, and this summer I wanted to start my first real crack at a novel. Spent some time outlining it and building up my future history, and been getting into the actual writing for the past few weeks.

In a nice little rhythm now where I write a sentence, hate the sentence, hate myself, hate the world, write another sentence. Rinse, repeat.

I feel you.

The writing group I used to participate in, I had one particular hater, several fans and another who was very encouraging and helpful. We had a workshop with a visiting author [Jack McDevitt] and I was sitting in my vehicle banging away at another idea while I was waiting for our location to open up. She, the helpful one, came up to my vehicle and asked me what I was working on [as the stories for the workshop were already complete] 

Me: It's a short that takes place in a subterranean mining concern called Delving, about a candle maker trying to make a living in a gas-lit city. Secretly however, he's an assassin/terrorist of nearly mythic proportion who's bent on mixing murder and mayhem to disrupt the systems therein, and he's famed for never failing a contract. 

Her: You know I love your writing-- but what's the actual story

Me: Ok. So, after wiping out an industrial party of members of the Ministry of Weights and Measures, executives of the Lighting and Coke Company and a few agents of Devious Means [and burning all their records] through his contact the assassin later gets paid for a hit on his alter ego, Iskudros the Candle Maker. It's about how, by his latest successful act, he has to somehow both evade the wrath of two upper ranking investigators of Devious Means determined to find and end his assassin/terrorist persona, and since he never fails-- how he also has to effectively kill himself.

Her: [laughs at me] Sorry to say, but that's not a short story. It's a novel. 

Me: Well... fuck.  

I like short stories. But whenever I try write one they gain ungodly mass, become far larger than is permissible and so I end up kind of hating my lack of restraint and the story itself, despite what it's turned into, for not conforming to my original intent. 

   

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6 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

like short stories. But whenever I try write one they gain ungodly mass, become far larger than is permissible and so I end up kind of hating my lack of restraint and the story itself, despite what it's turned into, for not conforming to my original intent. 

I think in your case you need to simplify it right down. Characters aren't really the focus with short stories - it's much more about the ideas. You're not trying to develop a character to explore their fleshed-out psychology (that's a novel), you're using them to make a point or explore a theme. To take your candle-maker idea, perhaps he's just gone bankrupt, gets desperate, and joins some sort of terrorist organisation. He's given some task by the terrorists to prove himself - and the story becomes about whether he is sufficiently cold-hearted to carry out the assignment or whether something stops him at the last moment (if so, what?). 

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12 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

I think in your case you need to simplify it right down. Characters aren't really the focus with short stories - it's much more about the ideas. You're not trying to develop a character to explore their fleshed-out psychology (that's a novel), you're using them to make a point or explore a theme. To take your candle-maker idea, perhaps he's just gone bankrupt, gets desperate, and joins some sort of terrorist organisation. He's given some task by the terrorists to prove himself - and the story becomes about whether he is sufficiently cold-hearted to carry out the assignment or whether something stops him at the last moment (if so, what?). 

(mulls)

I get what you're saying and could chew on that for a while, but, I think the only way for me to write a short is to start anew. A dude gets attached, and peeling it back at this point would feel like a bottle opener just under the tip of a fingernail. 

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Hey folks, my third Supervillainy Saga novel is out today.

I have a great fun little story to tell you guys about what it's like to start moving from a new author to journeyman status. Basically, The Rules of Supervillainy and Games of Supervillainy have done very well with over 10,000 copies of each sold. Which is nicely in the realm of "actual professional author" done.

Well, I was contacted by a publisher recently and they asked me, "So do you have anything like this book ready?" And, when you're an author, you always have some work lying around but half-or-a-quarer completed which I said I could get it done in a month. Which I promptly did, utterly frying my brain. Still, it's now sent off and to a much larger company than the one I began my work on (and has great reviews on Writer Water Cooler)

I think that's one of the things which is good about writing that you start becoming recognizable simply by getting your book out there for people to see and people sharing it.

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1 hour ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

So I've got a question that may be a bit controversial depending on where you're from. Any of you guys ever write/worldbuild/create while smoking weed?

Worked for Bakker. I'm trying, and failing, to find the quote, but I believe there was an interview with him where he was asked advice for worldbuilding and his response was something along the lines of, "get yourself a big bag of really good weed."

While I'm not much of a writer, I've dabbled in some other artistic endeavors frequently with weed around. I can't say it ever really enhanced my creativity at all but it's tough to say for sure. I don't think it's ever been a detriment. Try it and see if it works for you. Just make sure the idea that sounds AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZING when you're high still sounds at least pretty good when you're not.

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