Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Trump himself may or may not be a racist asshole idiot (he probably is) but his followers absolutely are.Probably? He called an entire race of people criminals and rapists. There's no probably about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Ah, he just says what he thinks. He's an outsider, that's why you and OBUMMER can't stand him!....ugh. Sorry, I don't know what came over me. I've been wading through this muck for too long, it's contagious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Ah, he just says what he thinks. He's an outsider, that's why you and OBUMMER can't stand him!....ugh. Sorry, I don't know what came over me. I've been wading through this muck for too long, it's contagious.It's kind of amazing that this has become an acceptable excuse at this point. He's HONEST. He's FEARLESS! That's why we love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I am not even sure whether he is honest in most of his sentiments, or if he is just playing the GOP crowd. Either way it's showing the dark side of the GOP, whose existence they have been very eager to deny.Now that his poll numbers finally seemed to go down a bit in Iowa and he is now head to head with Cruz (I mean really? Trump and Cruz) there, I am curious when he will give the GOP base the next sound bite they want to hear. Giving the finger to "Black lives matter" and announce, that he will contribute big money to the defense fund for police officer Jason Van Dyke to "honor the great service of police men around the country" (or something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglose Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I've been reading a number of articles about Trump's narcissism. I have a lot of personal experience with the damage a narcissist can cause so it is an interesting topic to me. My experience is they tend to be less successful and not able to hold a job. They pull people in quickly and the relationship will blow up rapidly once people figure out there are issues.Trump does not really fit the narcissist model I've experienced but I recognize there is a breed of successful narcissist leader types. I think the biggest tell tale sign with Trump is his clear lack of empathy. Pretty much all the candidates running for president have some level of Narcissism (except maybe the Bern). What I know about the Narcissist leaders is that you have to be concerned about the quick burn out effect. Once they dont deliver on promises or blow up relationships followers become dissatisfied and abandon them. We have not seen that with Trump yet but it is still pretty early.The other thing I cant reconcile with the Trump-Narcissism dynamic is the effect on his children. Typically the children are pretty damaged and have major feelings of inadequacies. Impossible to know but the Trump kids seem pretty normal in comparison to the children of narcissists that I have interacted with. All of my personal experiences have been with unsuccessful narcissists though so I cant really tell if there is anything there. My instinct is that:They either picked up full blown narcissism from the fatherThey were not effected because Trump is less of a Narcissist than he seems to be. To be quite honest, I do not really think he is a narcissist. He remembers me at the character Colbert played for the colbert report. I think there is an honest core surrounded by a lot of bluster to get attention. A major part of it seems like an act. I really thought about it after seeing John Stweart putting up the "Trump show" on Late night with colbert. I watched him in the daily show talking about the same issue (medical care for 9/11 first responders) but I have to admit that to his trump act I thought back the next day.(I will glue congress together, dip them into gold and wear them around my neck. Real classy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I still think the biggest appeal of Trump is he can operate outside the confines of the political structure. He is not beholden to special interests or the political class. He's talked about this quite a lot but it is a message that does not get as much play because the media finds the comments about muslims and illegal immigrants more appealing to focus on.If I were Trump I would spend the next couple of weeks hammering the message that he is not someone that can be bought or needs to fear anything from the establishment. Regardless of how far Trump goes with some of his more controversial policy proposals there is a big piece of the electorate that is willing to overlook him stepping over some boundaries if they think they can stick it to the establishment. That population is probably big enough to at least get him the GOP nomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I still think the biggest appeal of Trump is he can operate outside the confines of the political structure. He is not beholden to special interests or the political class. He's talked about this quite a lot but it is a message that does not get as much play because the media finds the comments about muslims and illegal immigrants more appealing to focus on.If I were Trump I would spend the next couple of weeks hammering the message that he is not someone that can be bought or needs to fear anything from the establishment. Regardless of how far Trump goes with some of his more controversial policy proposals there is a big piece of the electorate that is willing to overlook him stepping over some boundaries if they think they can stick it to the establishment. That population is probably big enough to at least get him the GOP nomination. Can't be bought? The man went bankrupt 4! times. I suspect he has a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 zelt: Why can't Trump be bought? Do you think the wealthy are less corrupt (or at least less corruptible) than the poor? Or is it just that he can be bought differently? I'd also argue that the wealthy have too much political influence most of the time, but the answer to that can't be giving a wealthy person the reins directly. That's only a way to make that problem worse, not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The idea that the wealthy can't be bought is based on the assumption that the wealthy are not greedy for more wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I still think the biggest appeal of Trump is he can operate outside the confines of the political structure. He is not beholden to special interests or the political class. He's talked about this quite a lot but it is a message that does not get as much play because the media finds the comments about muslims and illegal immigrants more appealing to focus on. If money in politics bothers you, you'd be incredibly naive to trust Trump to change anything about it. To my knowledge he has not promised once to do anything with campaign finance law. All he's done is called the system broken and bragged how he has used ii. Until a Republican candidate actually promises to make a change, you can only assume they will continue to appoint justices to the Supreme Court that will further shred campaign finance law.It is interesting to see the poll numbers on the growing number of Republican leaning voters upset at money in politics. However, so far this has not translated to action from GOP elites. And Trump is now one of those GOP elites that is ignoring the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I still think the biggest appeal of Trump is he can operate outside the confines of the political structure. He is not beholden to special interests or the political class. He's talked about this quite a lot but it is a message that does not get as much play because the media finds the comments about muslims and illegal immigrants more appealing to focus on.If I were Trump I would spend the next couple of weeks hammering the message that he is not someone that can be bought or needs to fear anything from the establishment. Regardless of how far Trump goes with some of his more controversial policy proposals there is a big piece of the electorate that is willing to overlook him stepping over some boundaries if they think they can stick it to the establishment. That population is probably big enough to at least get him the GOP nomination. Not beholden to special interests? He IS the special interests. His businesses, real estate and gambling are entirely dependent on government favors and are prime examples of crony capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The idea that the wealthy can't be bought is based on the assumption that the wealthy are not greedy for more wealth.I know, but it's so obviously faulty that I don't even know where to start unraveling this knot, which is why I was asking to get a starting point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I think you need to re-read my post. I never said he cannot be bought. Anything is possible in the future.I said he can operate outside of normal confines of established politics. Bernie is probably the only other pol that has a similar luxury. Every other politician at this point in the race needs to make decisions based on a calculation that includes considering how their donors, future donors, potential voters and the party power brokers are going to react. Trump only needs to consider what potential voters think. He has shut out the other two stakeholders and that is why he is so threatening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I still think the biggest appeal of Trump is he can operate outside the confines of the political structure. He is not beholden to special interests or the political class. He's talked about this quite a lot but it is a message that does not get as much play because the media finds the comments about muslims and illegal immigrants more appealing to focus on.If I were Trump I would spend the next couple of weeks hammering the message that he is not someone that can be bought or needs to fear anything from the establishment. Regardless of how far Trump goes with some of his more controversial policy proposals there is a big piece of the electorate that is willing to overlook him stepping over some boundaries if they think they can stick it to the establishment. That population is probably big enough to at least get him the GOP nomination. You never said the bolded, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 I think you need to re-read my post. I never said he cannot be bought. Anything is possible in the future.I said he can operate outside of normal confines of established politics. Bernie is probably the only other pol that has a similar luxury. Every other politician at this point in the race needs to make decisions based on a calculation that includes considering how their donors, future donors, potential voters and the party power brokers are going to react. Trump only needs to consider what potential voters think. He has shut out the other two stakeholders and that is why he is so threatening. He is so threatening because he is so threatening. Banning Muslims from immigrating, a national database of Muslims, this kind of thing points towards throwing Muslims in internment camps. Waterboarding terror suspects even though it doesn't work as interrogation but just because they "deserve" it. Trump is like gasoline on the international and domestic fire and everyone with half a brain, including "the establishment" that everybody loves to hate, recognizes the danger he represents to a lot of people. He's not threatening because he's somehow outside of "the establishment" and hatas gonna hate, that's extraneous to the core problem of Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 On Facebooks Trump-related news feed, a lot of Trump supporters are "liking" a lot of comments that are... well, ugly.For example:This comment has 3,202 likes. I guess because it manages to tap into that overwhelming hatred for Muslims in addition to that massive throbbing erection the right wing has for Putin at the same time.This next-most liked comment on Donald J Trump's news feed, with 1,217 likes as of today, talks about Making America Great Again and how Muslims all "hide in each other's shadows" and can't be trusted. It gives the standard "how come the moderate Muslims don't destroy ISIS/protest terrorism" argument which demands for Muslims themselves to dismantle Islamophobes' confirmation biases. Which, of course, won't happen, and can never happen (as the fact that when Muslims do protest or fight against Islamic terrorism, it goes unnoticed... as this comment's very existence demonstrates).Trump himself may or may not be a racist asshole idiot (he probably is) but his followers absolutely are. It is terrifying how much cognitive distortion they put themselves through to support the kinds of things they do and say the kinds of vile filth they say. OK, maybe I don't understand how Facebook's "news feeds" for politicians work, but considering the huge number of people on Facebook, 3,202 likes seems like a very small number to me. It makes me feel a bit better knowing that the numbers for both those posts are in the tens of thousands, which is more where I'd naively expect them to me considering the millions of Facebook users. 3,202 just seems like it must be a tiny % of all the Trump followers on Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettG Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I also don't get the idea that the party will have no hold over him at all. Sure, while running in the primaries he's operating on his own, but if, heaven forbid, he were to actually win, he's going to have to work with the party quite extensively to get anything done. Because as it is, all the batshit crazy things he says on a daily basis will not only have every single Democrat in both houses lined up against him on every issue, but also every single Republican from any purple-leaning state or district. So while I suspect that his foam-at-the-mouth hatred and racism right now is just an act to get as many crazy conservatives as possible to come out of the woodwork and vote, on the off chance that it's not it will be the party at large that eventually gets it somewhat in check. At least until he dissolves Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sToNED_CAT Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Probably? He called an entire race of people criminals and rapists. There's no probably about it.No, he did not. He said, paraphrasing: "Mexico doesn't send their best here,they send drug dealers and rapists". That's quite different compared to "All Mexicans are drug dealers and rapists". He never attacked whole Mexican "race", just their illegal immigrants to US. And the fact is Mexican govt supports emigration of their poor and less educated citizens to US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Fool Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Right, he only suggested that all illegal immigrants, poor people, and the less educated from Mexico are drug dealers and rapists.Which is pretty fucking racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Hitler was a joke until he wasn't.It saddens me how many people seem to forget this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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