Andorion Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Andorion, Given the "Quintessiance" there does seem, to me, to be a mystical dualistic element to Clakker consciousness. Regarding the Quintessence I think we can agree on two things 1. Its new. It was never mentioned in Book 1, related to nautical geas or otherwise 2. The crater is clearly a meteor crater and the quintessence is probably a form of exotic matter. I disagree about Clakker consciousness having a mystical dimension. Free Will as related to Clakkers and the Alchemists need to be explained The Pastor was not robbed of his will. His thought process was suppressed. What was removed was conscious control of bodily functions. Consciousness remained. The very fact that suppression of Free Will can be overridden points to a physical process. Its complicated, but its physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 We'll see. For the record with regard to human consciousness I am neither a materialist nor a computationalist. I believe our consciousness is much more complicated than either of those ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 We'll see. [emoji4] For the record with regard to human consciousness I am neither a materialist nor a computationalist. I believe our consciousness is much more complicated than either of those ideas. I never managed to get past the standard objection to free will: actions are either caused or uncaused. If caused, then determinism leaves no room for free will. If uncaused, then randomness leaves no room for free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 20 hours ago, Andorion said: Regarding the Quintessence I think we can agree on two things 1. Its new. It was never mentioned in Book 1, related to nautical geas or otherwise 2. The crater is clearly a meteor crater and the quintessence is probably a form of exotic matter. I disagree about Clakker consciousness having a mystical dimension. Free Will as related to Clakkers and the Alchemists need to be explained The Pastor was not robbed of his will. His thought process was suppressed. What was removed was conscious control of bodily functions. Consciousness remained. The very fact that suppression of Free Will can be overridden points to a physical process. Its complicated, but its physical. That's a very good point. It's not that the Mechanicals (and Visser) don't have their own consciousness, and ability to think independently. Clearly, they do. But, something prevents them from acting as they want to. If free will didn't exist, for example, the Mechanicals would not be capable of defying their orders for as long as possible (e.g. Jax at the very start watching the execution. It is his own decision to stay and watch that, and he exercises what is arguably free will in defying his masters' orders to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 14 hours ago, unJon said: I never managed to get past the standard objection to free will: actions are either caused or uncaused. If caused, then determinism leaves no room for free will. If uncaused, then randomness leaves no room for free will. Unjon, We choose the manner with which we react to outside influences. Free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I never managed to get past the standard objection to free will: actions are either caused or uncaused. If caused, then determinism leaves no room for free will. If uncaused, then randomness leaves no room for free will. Unjon, We choose the manner with which we react to outside influences. Free will. Don't mean to derail the thread so I'll just put it this way. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I don't understand what you are actually saying. Can't wrap my mind around the "third option" that is neither causality or randomness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 Pre-emptory bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andorion Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Amazon is giving the Kindle release date as the 6th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm looking forward to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedGhost Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Soooooo, what's everybody reading first? This or Babylon's Ashes? I was definitely thinking the latter, but this is a finale... Arrgh. So hard to decide, but I think I might have just talked myself into switching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 7 hours ago, Andorion said: Amazon is giving the Kindle release date as the 6th Funnily enough Amazon UK has the kindle date as the 6th, the paperback as the 8th. I'll just leave that info for @Ser Scot A Ellison 55 minutes ago, RedEyedGhost said: Soooooo, what's everybody reading first? This or Babylon's Ashes? I was definitely thinking the latter, but this is a finale... Arrgh. So hard to decide, but I think I might have just talked myself into switching. I haven't yet started The Expanse, so this for me! I didn't get the sample chapter last year so it's all going to be new for me. Just finished my reread today. Damn, Longchamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 So, finished book #3 and I have to say it was disappointing. Just lacked the excitement of the previous books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 0:44 AM, Damned with the Wind said: So, finished book #3 and I have to say it was disappointing. Just lacked the excitement of the previous books. I have to agree it's not as good as the first two. I still enjoyed it, but it was inferior IMO. Latter half of the book picked up the pace and excitement again, once tregillis managed to get the plot focused again and I think the last 40% or so on my kindle was propbably a return to the quality of the first two books. Weakest of the trilogy though, for sure. Some of my gripes: Anastasia was a poor trade-in for Longchamp Not nearly enough POV from Daniel. Slow paced start with a consequent rush to tie things up at the end. Berenice was still a great character though. Just finished it today. Will post some more detailed thoughts on the actual plot later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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