Is Aegon really a Targaryan

[Mfeeney2010]

I didn't want to put this in the TV show forum cause if you only watch the show you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. So, from the get go I was very skeptical that Aegon is a real Targaryan. Introducing him so late just seems like GRRM putting in a plot twist to throw us off and make more controversy. But, since he hasn't been introduced yet on the show and Tyrion's storyline making a beeline straight to Dany makes me think that if he was a real Targaryan that would have been important and included already. Unless, of course, they plan on introducing him in season 6 which just seems late to me and I don't really know how they would do it. Idk. That's just my thoughts.

Plus, I think it was Quathe (sp?) that told Dany to beware the murmmers dragon. That seems like Aegon to me.

[Curled Finger]

I want Aegon to be real, but I don't think he is.   His introduction serves another history apart from Rhaegar's reenactment of Aegon's Conquest.   Aegon is a very well planned if not orchestrated king to be.  I'm not sure he's the mummer's dragon since I read Mercy as now we have real mummers that we may have to contend with.   As to him not being in the show...LSH isn't there either and I think they missed an opportunity to make a superstar out of that character.  Arianne, Jeyne Poole, Edric Storm & Gendry are all other characters.   I like the show for what it is, but I don't put a lot of stock in HBO telling the real tale here.   Aegon is important in the story--he will reveal Varys & Illyrio's true plan eventually.  He will have an impact particularly if he isn't a real Targ.   

[Maxxine]

I think he's a Blackfyre so technically a Targ but from the wrong line. Blackfyres were called pretenders which goes with the mummers dragon vision. As you said I think he was introduced too late to be anything more than another obstacle for the main characters. I can't see him being the prince that was promised or even a head of the dragon considering when he was introduced. I would be really disappointed if he does end up being that important but I wouldn't put anything past GRRM.

I don't think they'll add him in the show. Too much extra storyline & deviation from the other plots for tv especially when there are only 10 episodes. Also why they left Quentyn, Victarion, Euron, etc. Honestly I'm not the biggest fan of these additional storylines in the book. More storylines for an already complex plot & i don't know if he's going to be able to pull everything together in the last 2 books

[Mfeeney2010]

I've read mercy but saying those mummer's are what is being talked about is too literal and that nit what is usually meant. Whether he's real or not he has been groomed to be a king. They can just be like hey look. The rightful heir. Even if he isn't.

I agree with what you said about the show. It's all going to end the same just on different paths. But if he is real he's not included in the final product

[Mfeeney2010]

I've thought he's a Blackfyre too. That makes sense especially if they wanna say hey look it Aegon when it really isn't. He's part Targaryan.

The other storylines are being introduced next season, as far as I know.

I was disappointed that there was so much left out with Dorne it could have been good. But, I think most of everything down these has to do with Aegon story later cause they will probably back him. So, since he's not in the show yet (and most likely never will) they don't have a reason to include all the extra Dorne stuff to lead up to it

[A Ghost of Someone]

A Dragon is still a Dragon and Blackfyres are Targaryens, their line was legitimized but I suspect he is Mophatis and in fact Illyrio's son. I therefore suspect that he decends from the Blackfyre line of house Targaryen.

[Curled Finger]

Yah, I read that about the mummers before, but you have to wonder why Arya in her training as a FM ends up with a bunch of actors.  Of all personas she could be trained with.  

[purple-eyes]

Plot-wise he can not be real. 

Otherwise he has better claim and heavier impact than the main figures like Jon and Dany. 

GRRM can not afford this to happen. 

 

[Eiko Dragonhorn]

Doesn't really matter what he is.

 

Tyrion will convince Dany he is a Blackfyre and she will kill him.

[Moiraine Sedai]

Plot-wise he can not be real. 

Otherwise he has better claim and heavier impact than the main figures like Jon and Dany. 

GRRM can not afford this to happen. 

 

The novels set up the conflict  between the Targaryens and the Blackfyres.  Martin clearly meant for this family feud to become a major part of the story.  But HBO is sticking to just the highlights of the story to keep it simple.  It's just confusion to introduce a Blackfyre at this point because the TV fans have not been given any information about that family line.  In the books, expect to see this conflict play out.  It doesn't have to be between Dany and Aegon.  We have yet to get a reaction from Bloodraven on Aegon's arrival.  He took down the Blackfyre pretenders.  I expect he will try to do the same with Aegon.  Will Bran side with Aegon or the North/Wildlings? 

Aegon's claim means nothing if Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone.  Besides, it will be nearly impossible for Aegon to prove his identity.  People believe Aegon died in King's Landing and it will be a steep hill to climb trying to change that belief.  He will be greeted with extreme skepticism and his identity will be questioned.

[YouKnowNothingJonSnow]

The novels set up the conflict  between the Targaryens and the Blackfyres.  Martin clearly meant for this family feud to become a major part of the story.  But HBO is sticking to just the highlights of the story to keep it simple.  It's just confusion to introduce a Blackfyre at this point because the TV fans have not been given any information about that family line.  In the books, expect to see this conflict play out.  It doesn't have to be between Dany and Aegon.  We have yet to get a reaction from Bloodraven on Aegon's arrival.  He took down the Blackfyre pretenders.  I expect he will try to do the same with Aegon.  Will Bran side with Aegon or the North/Wildlings? 

Aegon's claim means nothing if Viserys was crowned on Dragonstone.  Besides, it will be nearly impossible for Aegon to prove his identity.  People believe Aegon died in King's Landing and it will be a steep hill to climb trying to change that belief.  He will be greeted with extreme skepticism and his identity will be questioned.

Good post and good to see some crossover from WoT.

Agree with everything you said, especially about GRRM setting up the Blackfyre/Targ conflict.

In terms of his acceptance, I think he may be better received than you think. Not because people will necessarily believe he's a true Targ, but many will WANT to believe he's a true Targ because the Lannister/Bolton ruling cabal has been such a disaster. JonCon is known, and well respected. If he can take KL and starting putting things aright, many may not care. Certainly almost no one amongst the common folk. Dorne certainly will want to believe. The Tyrell's may not care if things go poorly ag M's trial. And I'd bet any remaining Stark wouldn't care too much if it meant the end of the Boltons.

If he can offer better proofs than, say Roose/Ramsay with fake Arya, then he may have a shot.

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Good post and good to see some crossover from WoT.

Agree with everything you said, especially about GRRM setting up the Blackfyre/Targ conflict.

In terms of his acceptance, I think he may be better received than you think. Not because people will necessarily believe he's a true Targ, but many will WANT to believe he's a true Targ because the Lannister/Bolton ruling cabal has been such a disaster. JonCon is known, and well respected. If he can take KL and starting putting things aright, many may not care. Certainly almost no one amongst the common folk. Dorne certainly will want to believe. The Tyrell's may not care if things go poorly ag M's trial. And I'd bet any remaining Stark wouldn't care too much if it meant the end of the Boltons.

If he can offer better proofs than, say Roose/Ramsay with fake Arya, then he may have a shot.

 

So you read WoT too?  Good, but different.  George is not Jordan, and Jordan is not George.

[The Three Whores]

Honestly, I don't think we will ever know for sure either way and GRRM will leave it up to the readers to decide. Whether Aegon is a Targaryen or Blackfyre probably won't matter in the end. I expect he may succeed in conquering at least King's Landing and naming himself king, but considering the way the story seems to be going I think Aegon will succeed and Dany will land in Westeros right around the same time, so Aegon's reign will probably be a very short one. Wouldn't surprise me if he gets eaten by Drogon the same day as his coronation.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

A Dragon is still a Dragon and Blackfyres are Targaryens, their line was legitimized but I suspect he is Mophatis and in fact Illyrio's son. I therefore suspect that he decends from the Blackfyre line of house Targaryen.

Blackfyres are not Targaryens.

They may be related, but they are an entirely separate house. It would be like saying that Karstarks are Starks.

 

[purple-eyes]

Blackfyres are not Targaryens.

They may be related, but they are an entirely separate house. It would be like saying that Karstarks are Starks.

 

This part is very confusing. 

If Addam, Aryn, and Ramsay can use Velaryon and Bolton as last names (and also Jon Snow based on robb's will), why did not daemon use Targaryen as his last name? And also Bloodraven and BitterSteel and Shiela and a bunch of children from Mellisa and Black Pearl. 

I can only think about this is just a way to make story cooler and easier by calling Blackfyre rebellion, not daemon Targaryen (not the one who died in God's eye) rebellion. 

[Maester Emrick of Seagard]

Well, I have not seen anyone here saying Aegon is just a random boy from Lys. Is my opinion really so unpopular?

[Knight Of Winter]

OP, wherever you believe about Aegon, it's the best not to take show as an evidence for anything. Seeing how much D&D deleted or screwed up a number of various storylines (Arianne, Sansa, Quentyn being most egregious examples), their Aegon storyline (or lack of it) doesn't really prove or disprove anything.

 

Well, I have not seen anyone here saying Aegon is just a random boy from Lys. Is my opinion really so unpopular?

Well, you've just seen one . I think that Aegon being a random Valyrian-looking kid is the likeliest option.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

This part is very confusing. 

If Addam, Aryn, and Ramsay can use Velaryon and Bolton as last names (and also Jon Snow based on robb's will), why did not daemon use Targaryen as his last name? And also Bloodraven and BitterSteel and Shiela and a bunch of children from Mellisa and Black Pearl. 

I can only think about this is just a way to make story cooler and easier by calling Blackfyre rebellion, not daemon Targaryen (not the one who died in God's eye) rebellion. 

I think part of it is that a bastard can be legitimized, meaning not a bastard but not as a member of his father's House.

So in essence, they would no longer have the stigma of a bastard a could hold lands and titles but not necessarily be in line to inherit their father's titles and lands.

With out the permission of the head of a House, otherwise a King can just legitimize anyone as a a member of a House (yes technically who is going to stop a King from doing what ever he wants), I think that unwritten laws dictate that a House needs to accept the legitimized bastard to carry their name.

An vise versa, a bastard can accept a legitimization but not want to take their father's name (for pride or for spite). I think this was the case in the Blackfyre example. But by doing this they basically renounce any claim to inherit from that house (or at least put them selves behind other children.).

[rs1n]

When Aegon was introduced in one of Tyrion's chapters, there much speculation (on Tyrion's part) about the true purpose of Septa Lemore -- and her stretch marks. I am going to err on the side of Aegon being fake.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Blackfyres are not Targaryens.

They may be related, but they are an entirely separate house. It would be like saying that Karstarks are Starks.

 

They are or were legitimized making them Targaryens. Karstarks changed their last name but in truth they are an unbroken male line of Starks. If the story of Bael the Bard is true, than the current line of Starks are bastards and took the Stark name without being legitimized.