Maia Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Yea, so we had quite an interesting discussion going there until the forum transition hit, so I'll just necro it. Here is to hoping that copying old posts won't make the things look too chaotic... : Independent George Council MemberMembers3,268 postsPosted 12 October 2015 - 03:16 PMSo does anybody know why it's not on either Netflix streaming or Amazon Prime?QuoteMultiQuote#3 Werthead Social Justice Robot from the FutureForum Moderators23,982 postsPosted 14 October 2015 - 03:17 PMDifficult to say. It may be lack of demand versus what Warner Brothers were charging for it. Or it might be related to the competing B5 projects Warner Brothers and JMS are pursuing. WB pulling the old show might tie into that somehow.QuoteMultiQuote#4 Lord Varys Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven KingdomsMembers9,704 postsPosted 22 October 2015 - 01:49 PMHas anyone ever read the Babylon 5 novels and comics? I've just finished the Psi Corps and this is really great stuff. The first volume covers the discovery of telepathy and the formation of the Psi Corps, the second is a biography of Alfred Bester up until his first visit to Babylon 5, and the last one covers Bester's ultimate fate after the Telepath War. I have to say that those really are great books, possibly among the best fictional biographies I've read. It really delves in-depth into the whole telepath situation and the subsequent problems for human society. And you really get into the head of a child which is shaped by an increasingly more fascistic organization and allows himself to be twisted into a very unsympathetic character. Right now I've begun reading the Centauri Trilogy about the big Drakh plan. There seem to be a few time line issues (Londo being too long emperor prior him giving the Sheridan and Delenn the present for their son). I still have great issues withSpoilerthe Drakh called Shiv'kala moving about the palace without being ever seen, and visiting/confronting Londo wherever he. That the Keeper established a telepathic link to Shiv'kala and the Drakh Entire is one thing, but Shiv'kala is a physical being, and some Drakh being present in the emperor's palace should draw some attention. The guy has to eat, drink, go to the toilet, have devices control the fusion bombs etc. I've finished the first half of the first book, 'The Long Night of Centauri Prime', and nothing suggests that Shiv'kala has any Drakh colleagues with him on Centauri Prime or placed other Keeper-controlled agents among the Centauri elite. Such a conspiracy could only work if many people were involved and participated. Instead, we are supposed to believe that the Centauri society can be transformed in a police state simply by the Drakh-controlled Londo and his Minister for Internal Security, a man who isn't even controlled directly by the Drakh. That is really hard to swallow. QuoteMultiQuote#5 Independent George Council MemberMembers3,268 postsPosted 22 October 2015 - 03:21 PMWerthead, on 14 Oct 2015 - 9:17 PM, said:You'd think that would be incentive to get it out there, and give new viewers a chance to catch up.QuoteMultiQuote#6 Lord Varys Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven KingdomsMembers9,704 postsPosted 22 October 2015 - 03:48 PMWhat kind of competing projects are there? I only heard about JMS's feature film idea - which sounds not particularly promising if you ask me. A reboot could be interesting, but only as TV series, not as a feature film series. The story is way too complex for that to make it very interesting.QuoteMultiQuote#7 Maia Council MemberMembers3,203 postsPosted 22 October 2015 - 03:52 PMFunny that you should ask, Lord Varys, because for the last couple of days I have been girding myself to write about the Centauri trilogy here, which I have hated with the hatred of a thousand suns . Shameless money-grab IMHO, and a piece of evidence supporting JMS's own later admission that he should have gotten out after 5 seasons, as he initially intended, rather than trying to make Crusade (which I also hated).P.S. We are continuing the discussion from the previous locked Babylon 5 thread which can be found here, if anybody new comes into the thread and is curious:http://asoiaf.wester...bylon-5/page-25A lot of interesting discussion there, too.Edited by Maia, 22 October 2015 - 04:16 PM.QuoteMultiQuote#8 Lord Varys Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven KingdomsMembers9,704 postsPosted 22 October 2015 - 04:50 PMI cannot speak about that yet - up until it now it is really just boring, not really bad yet. Although the characters aren't depicted that well, perhaps aside from Londo. As of yet my problem is mostly the premise, not so much the content. But I guess that will change once the story ventures into new territory. The 'Psi Corps Trilogy' is really spot on, though, Bester and Garibaldi (the latter only featuring in the last volume, of course) are depicted perfectly, and a lot of the dialogue could be lifted directly from the series (even completely fringe stuff from the show is depicted like Talia's claim in season 2 that Lyta was serving as a intern with the Psi Cops despite only being a P 5).Oh, and the short stories are interesting, too. One continues the story of the first director of Psi Corps (a secret telepath named Kevin Vacit, the maternal grandfather of Bester). I remember trying to watch 'Crusade' but didn't get very far. QuoteMultiQuote#9 Maia Council MemberMembers3,203 postsPosted 05 November 2015 - 06:46 AMDid you read the Centauri books, Lord Varys? I'd say that your initial impression is already quite damning, though, given what should have been tension-filled set-up and great characters (who should have been?) involved. Dramatic gold turned into dross. But that's nothing compared to what is coming in volumes 2 and 3...QuoteMultiQuote#10 Lord Varys Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven KingdomsMembers9,704 postsPosted 07 November 2015 - 12:40 PMI stopped somewhere in the second book, I think, and forgot to say something about it. It is just crap. Nothing to say anything about it really, besides that. Care to elaborate why you found it bad? Or to tell me how it ended/sucked the most? I got through about a third of the second book.QuoteMultiQuote#11 Werthead Social Justice Robot from the FutureForum Moderators23,982 postsPosted 07 November 2015 - 01:03 PMI though the Legions of Fire trilogy was reasonably decent. Peter David is a good writer, even if he was constrained in working from a JMS outline and trying to make the timeline make sense, and at least the events are well-described. My biggest problem with it is Galen turning up again and having a key role in events. For a dude who was never even on B5 itself, he sure as hell turns out to have been responsible for a lot of shit. At least in the Passing of the Techno-Mages trilogy he was made into a much more ambiguous character fully capable of carrying out massive screw-ups, which made him more bearable. Lord Varys, on 22 Oct 2015 - 9:48 PM, said: JMS wants to make a rebooted movie series and Warner Brothers want to reboot the TV series from scratch. Apparently this is because the cost of redoing the CGI for a full remastered version of the original series is so astronomically high that it's actually more cost-effective to go the whole hog and remake the show from scratch, representing it as a new thing and getting new people on board. B5 was way ahead of its time, so it does kind of make sense. Fans seem divided. Both projects are reboots with (presumably) new casts, plus it seems to be generally accepted that doing anything new with so many of the original cast passed away or now quite old is going to be a hard sell, and if anything did happen it'd likely be fanservice like The Lost Tales. On that basis, it's going to be a straight-up choice between a reboot done as a film series with JMS in charge but with no time to do the story justice, or a reboot done as a TV series which could do the story again pretty well but would also not have JMS's involvement. Unlike Roddenberry and Lucas, JMS's involvement is still regarded as key by many fans. They really need to sort that out, which also depends on things like JMS's commitment to Sense8 and how seriously WB would take a new show. If they're going to do it on the cheap like the original, it may not be worth it. If they give it at least the same level as attention as, say, The Expanse, it could be great.QuoteMultiQuote#12 Lord Varys Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven KingdomsMembers9,704 postsPosted 07 November 2015 - 02:16 PMHm. The idea of a rebooted series could make sense, especially if it was faithful to the original intention of the show, planning story arcs with all the original characters rather than having to replace them midway. For instance, sticking to one Commander, going through with the Babylon 4 being sent into the future thing, having the spouse of the Commander dying at Z'ha'dum during the series, sticking to one telepath, etc. And they could perhaps also touch upon/explore interesting side plots or focus on other interesting elements that weren't really touched upon in the series. If it is written well it could definitely be interesting. On the other hand, I personally are not all that much a fan of reboots. On the other hand, it would be really interesting to see if anyone else besides Katsulas and Jurasik could bring G'Kar and Londo to life. But I really can't see Babylon 5 as a movie franchise. It is too big, and wouldn't be much fun if parts (or rather elements) of the story would be cut down to fit into a 2-3 hour movie. A sort of 'pilot-like' feature film could perhaps work if it covers the building of Babylon 5 and the guys dealing with some hidden threat to the station when it is supposed to be opened (both alien and secret government conspiracy guys being involved) but I really don't see how they could continue the story from there in a movie format. Legions of Fire: It is just nothing happening in there, and that what's happening is boring and contrived. Much of it hinges with the original Drakh plan premise anyway but there is also a lot of lost potential. It feels as if you are reading the outline as if the author is trying to explain what is supposed to happen rather than doing so, by, say, actually introducing characters and telling plots and stories. Instead we are again and again told that Centauri Prime is becoming a police state but don't exactly see much of that, especially not how it is done. This could have been done nicely by actually having Londo being the guy doing it - because, you know, he is actually controlled by the Drakh. Allowing the Durla guy to run everything who is not actually directly controlled by the Drakh the same way Londo is is kind of pointless. It could have been interesting to see how Londo is forced to destroy and ruin people he actually loves and likes rather than dumbing everything down to doing nothing and sending people he likes away all the time (for their own safety, of course). And then there are a lot of glaring timeline and continuity errors.QuoteMultiQuote#13 Werthead Social Justice Robot from the FutureForum Moderators23,982 postsPosted 07 November 2015 - 05:39 PMI think the movie option is only really doing the rounds because JMS has the movie rights but has no legal right to a TV series: he can only do a TV project in cooperation with WB. To be fair, WB seem up for working with JMS, but JMS seems to have some issues with them. Possibly a bit unfairly since they did get B5 on air in the first place and let him finish it.QuoteMultiQuote#14 Lord Varys Most Devious 'Man' In The Seven KingdomsMembers9,704 postsPosted 07 November 2015 - 05:57 PMYeah, well, if the movie thing happens it could perhaps work as a pilot for a reboot TV series if they somehow get back together. If not, then I really don't think it is very likely that a Babylon 5 movies series will be a success or be particularly good or worthy of the story, regardless who helms it. At least if we go with the assumption they want to 'sort of remake' the series. A smaller story set in the B5 universe at the around/before the beginning could work. This talk of Bruce Boxleitner playing 'the President of the Earth Alliance' in the planned movie would most likely suggest we are talking about Santiago (or whoever else he'll be named in that version) rather than Clark. And he would only play a significant/relevant role before the station really got running if they stick to the old B5 mode of not making the gang super VIPs from the start being in on and very close to the uppermost political elite. But that's just my guess. But then, this universe actually has enough potential to make good stuff without a reboot at all. Just jump back or ahead in time. #15 Maia Council MemberMembers3,203 postsPosted 09 November 2015 - 11:08 AMPersonally, I am not sure that JMS's contribution would be necessary or beneficial for a hypothetical Babylon 5 reboot as a TV series. I mean, nothing that he tried to do in the universe apart from the show itself was actually much good. Well, "In the Beginning" was the one good TV movie, but even it depended heavily on the inclusion of the re-worked sequences and the plot points from the show. And granted, from books and comics, I have only read the Centauri trilogy and the short stories that I have tracked down on the nets, but the former was atrocious and the latter bad to mediocre at best. Confusingly, almost all of them contradicted show canon too. IMHO, YMMV. It seems that JMS really caught a lightnening in a bottle with B5 and even he himself didn't entirely understand why it worked. A movie... yea, I don't see how it could work. Maybe something vaguely based on B5 universe and focused on future Earth and telepaths? Of course, the aliens were the best part of B5, IMHO... Maybe a re-do of the Minbari war? Not sure what would be doable, but certainly not an attempt to cram the plot of the series into a movie. And yea, I am not convinced that JMS could make a good movie in any case. Also, I was less than enthused by the original outline with B5 travelling into the future and Sinclair and Delenn's son (of course!) being a messiah. In fact, everything that I have heard about it made me glad that network TV realities intervened, because the end result turned out to be so much better than what those original ideas sounded like. OTOH, a re-boot would need to do something fresh, sure, but then, the whole telepath plot-line is crying for a decent implementation, and they could add the Telepath "war" as an actual arc, too. I have been re-watching the series again (binging and by myself, rather than getting distracted by my SO) and to add insult to injury Lyta was re-introduced in season 2 as a member of underground railroad working for the Mars Resistance! Yea, sure somebody who needed a tragic romance with a hippy Fabio to motivate them to fight the Psi Corps! And who would have been totally helpless once her job as an ambassadorial aid was gone! What a sensless arc... Also, it seems that some members of the railroad _did_ help to fight the Shadows, along with alien telepaths, only it was dealt with in an off-hand sentence between Franklin and Ivanova and a dialog-free mass scene with extras. But neither Byron himself, nor any of his people claimed to have fought the Shadows, so...And isn't it funny that after all the moaning about how human telepaths had been artificially created and thus the whole universe owed them a planet of their own, that Lyta turned around and gave the Narn what they needed to (re-)create their own telepaths? With no ethical strings attached. No, when all is said and done, I really preferred Talia and how the telepath lore and depiction of telepathy were being assembled around her plot-line, than the chaotic stuff that came later. Even if Ironside was meh. Speaking of the Centauri trilogy, yes, absolutely Londo should have been the one running things for the Drakh. What was the purpose of nabbing him and putting him on a shelf? Just revenge/punishment? But in this case, they were far too indulgent to him in the novels for no reason, letting him keep/protect all his pointless stray kittens, etc. If they had been actually using him, then it would have made sense that the Drakh, being allegedly bright, would have used both the stick and the carrot, but as it was, nope. Not to mention that putting a blowhard like Durla in charge and quick turn into a police state didn't at all jeeve with the proclaimed goal of the Drakh to work quietly. I mean, Centauri would have been watched after the war and the rangers infiltrate places, etc. P.S. Now that I am binging, my opinion of the 5th season was further lowered. Initially, I enjoyed the Londo/G'Kar interplay as well as the omnious Centauri stuff enough to tide me over the other bits, but now I have been reminded how many massive idiot balls everybody was carrying re: the Drakh in the final season, given all the revelations and concerns about them in season 4. And how nobody did a proper diligence and follow-up on this Keeper found on Mars. I mean, you'd think that Sheridan, of all people, would like to learn more.And it isn't like all this stupidity was really needed, as Londo was doomed anyway, due to the fusion bombs, which must have been installed sometime during season 4. It would have been even more poignant if he had to disarm perfectly valid suspicions of his friends and allies.There are also a lot of jarringly neglected loose ends on Centauri, like Londo's nephew, his remaining wife, his House, the Jaddos under his protection, etc. You'd think that as long as he was visiting home so much, some of it could have come up, even if just as a line in dialog (though preferrably more). Also, all the farewells in the later episodes were just unnecessary and self-indulgent, since "Sleeping in the Light" covers most of them perfectly, while "Objects at Rest" was just very, very dumb plot-wise. Oh, and did I mention how much I hate the travesty of Lennier's storyline? I mean, the dude supported Delenn's fight for this marriage, helped her with all the rituals, etc. She couldn't have convinced her people to allow it, if not for him. And then, this? While she is pregnant with Sheridan's child, no less? Come on. I never liked his unrequited love subplot - but this was completely atrocious and OoC.And then, to add insult to injury, the novels apparently tied him to the Telepath War and Lyta, when there was, like zero connection between them in the show? If anything, he should have linked with Vir and the Centauri storyline, at least there was some foundation there. Ahem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Some people thought that he meant he was about to keel over, so he had to clarify that's not the case (and of course that would mean all of his work was worth more, not just one). Intriguing to see what this ends up meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 RIP Jerry Doyle. The Bablyon Curse strikes again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Fuck. Fuck 2016 and Fuck the B5 curse! Garibaldi was my favorite B5 character and Doyle was by far the most entertaining guest I ever saw at a convention. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 RIP. Hopefully the Expanse will stage a motorcycle scene in his honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 RIP Mr. Doyle....Garibaldi was a fantastic character in a great ensemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 What the fuck, do they all die at 60?! What is this... RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazydog7 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 My god I had been unplugged from the internet for a few days. I am very sorry to hear this RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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