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Star Wars Episode VII THE SPOILERS AWAKEN


Corvinus85

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Saw the movie, enjoyed it, but it didn't enrapture me. I didn't come out of the theater with the whole "HOLY SHIT" feeling I get from movies that blow my mind.

Really interested who Snoke is.  The new Disney Rebels series sets up Darkside adepts called Inquisitors whole rank below the Sith in power, it's possible Snoke is an Inquisitor who survived the Empire.   I've also seen speculation that he's Darth Plagius.   Kylo Ren is absurdly weak for a Sith apprentice, despite being able to freeze a plasma bolt in the air, so I'm leaning towards Snoake being a Dark Side adept as opposed to a true Sith.

Of course, if Snoke isn't a Sith, he doesn't offer much threat to Luke in any sort of fight.   Moriband/Korriban also appears in secondary media released by Disney.  Perhaps Episode VIII will feature a training montage for Kylo Ren amongst the tombs of the Sith Lords?

Secondary media released by Disney confirms Rakata Prime, from KoTOR is still canon.   Perhaps Luke ventured there seeking the truth of the Force or something.

I wish the political situation was more explained in the movie, but I guess JJ was looking to avoid the criticism of the endless tariff policy and trade monopoly debate of Episode I.

 

edit: Oh and speculation on Captain Phasma - She's a Resistance sympathizer or agent.   Fin gets sent to her after his poor performance on the surface, and apparently whatever punishment she metes out is insignificant enough to happen off-screen.  And then she powers down the shields protecting the planet with no hesitation at all.     The problem with her being an agent, obviously, is that the Resistance had apparently no information at all that Starkiller base existed.

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Holy shit. That was Star Wars. I mean. 

 

That was really Star Wars. That was everything I wanted from a Star Wars movie. Plot similarities aside. Yeah there are a couple of things I could nitpick, but holy shit.

 

I loved it. When I've gathered my thoughts, I shall return. 

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I wish the political situation was more explained in the movie, but I guess JJ was looking to avoid the criticism of the endless tariff policy and trade monopoly debate of Episode I.

I think they mostly left the more detailed explanation to the tie-in novels, but I think what you're supposed to take away from the movie is that the Republic isn't strong enough to fight the First Order (or has no appetite to,) so they are officially neutral, but they're covertly funding the Resistance to fight a proxy war on their behalf.

I agree it could probably have done with a tiny bit more exposition. :lol:

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I think they mostly left the more detailed explanation to the tie-in novels, but I think what you're supposed to take away from the movie is that the Republic isn't strong enough to fight the First Order (or has no appetite to,) so they are officially neutral, but they're covertly funding the Resistance to fight a proxy war on their behalf.

I agree it could probably have done with a tiny bit more exposition. :lol:

Which makes it understandable how the first order are pissed at the republic as it is a hypocritic stance or cold war. Their response is heavy handed though.

Mark kermode actually had a surprisingly positive review of the film (he's a bbc critic who often sneers at popcorn films). He also made a nod to the enjoyment of watching it with people who love the franchise.

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Carrie Fisher.....she's got some city miles on her, that voice, sounding like a pack a day. That was a big disappointment

When sixty years old you reach, look as good, you will not. ;)

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I'll echo those saying that it was enjoyable and fun, but I wasn't really blown away.

The Good:

- Boyega as Finn. Great acting and a fun character to watch. I liked how energetic he was and there were some good lines there as well.

- Ridley as Rey. Honestly, some of her dialogue delivery was a bit wooden but she had some really good physical acting going on, especially her expressiveness.

- Han Solo. Enough said.

- Cinematography. There were some really awesome shots in there. TIE fighters in the dawn, lightsaber duels in the snow, that sort of thing. I thought it was visually very impressive.

- I personally thought Kylo Ren made for a pretty compelling villain. I'm getting more genuine pathos from this one character than from Anakin in the whole prequel trilogy put together.

The Not-So-Good:

- Another planet-busting super weapon? Really? For what it was supposed to be it felt really lightweight and inconsequential. Five planets got destroyed in one go and I couldn't bring myself to care. Something like that needs a lot more weight and drama attached to it, not just tossed in as a throwaway.

- The overall plot felt too busy and disjointed. Events didn't really flow well from one to the next. Even just a day later I'm struggling to remember all of the basic plot beats.

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He dropped it into a shaft in the middle of Cloud City; I don't think there was any indication that it was open at the bottom. So his hand might have been sucked into a tube in the wall like he was himself not long after, and ended up who knows where, or it might have landed at the bottom of the shaft. Either way, somebody found it, and Maz eventually acquired it. Not something that the movie really needed to spend any more time on.

Me too.

And now we know it doesn't even protect them against gas weapons.

The other big problem was the level of coincidence. BB-8 just happens to run into the only known potential Jedi in the galaxy, who just happens to live next to the Falcon, and Han and Chewie just happen to run into it within hours after being separated from it for years, just as some of Han's angry business associates turn up, and Han just happens to take them to where Rey can acquire a lightsaber, just as the new superweapon comes online... Compare to A New Hope, where R2 is actively sent to find Ben, and picks up Luke (essentially his neighbour, for non-coincidental reasons) on the way, they hire some strangers to transport them to Alderaan, but get there too late, because their journey was set in motion by the same events that lead to the planet's destruction...

This wasn't as bad as JJ's Star Trek films, but it was bad in similar ways.

I had a discussion yesterday with someone unhappy about the "coincidences" that you are describing. All of them are either explained directly through the movie, or will probably be further explained down the road.

 Han and Chewie were looking for the Millennium Falcon and had tracked it down to that region. When it took off into space after sitting on the ground for so long, They were able to get a read on it. 

I also don't think it was a coincidence at all that on the planet where the location of Luke Skywalker is found, you also find the only known potential Jedi, and the Falcon. I am absolutely positive when we get more into Rey's story all of that will be revealed,

 

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Saw the movie, enjoyed it, but it didn't enrapture me. I didn't come out of the theater with the whole "HOLY SHIT" feeling I get from movies that blow my mind.

Really interested who Snoke is.  The new Disney Rebels series sets up Darkside adepts called Inquisitors whole rank below the Sith in power, it's possible Snoke is an Inquisitor who survived the Empire.   I've also seen speculation that he's Darth Plagius.   Kylo Ren is absurdly weak for a Sith apprentice, despite being able to freeze a plasma bolt in the air, so I'm leaning towards Snoake being a Dark Side adept as opposed to a true Sith.

 

Him being Plagueis makes all kind of sense. Him being an Inquisitor is shit.

The Grand Inquisitor was defeated by Kanan, who is basically as strong as a decent padawan, and weaker than Ahsoka in The Cone Wars TV show, let alone Ahsoka in Rebels TV show who absolutely destroyed in a fight two inquisitors at once.

So, making the ultimate villain be someone who would be defeated by a Kenobi-like level of Jedi with his left hand while he was pissing with his right, would be kind of stupid. If Luke developed a bit since ROTJ, he should be able to defeat any inquisitor (or, all of them combined), without even using a lightsaber. Heck, Anakin in Attack of the Clones would have absolutely destroyed them without even getting tired.

If they want him to look threatening, he should either be Plagueis or some similar character. Not someone weak in the force. 

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As I mentioned earlier, this is why the Starkiller plot line didn't bother me too much. Snoke clearly doesn't care about it, and it isn't a major part of his plans. It's important to his military, and they see it as the source of their power/prestige, but Snoke basically just shrugs when it gets destroyed and is clearly only concerned about Luke. 

Again going into Plagueis-Snoke parallels, Plagueis was incredibly concerned when the Jedi discovered Anakin. He was feeling very threatened.

With Luke having the same potential as Anakin, then Plagueis feeling very concerned about him (more than the starkiller getting destroyed) makes sense. Maybe I am seeing things that aren't there though.

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Him being Plagueis makes all kind of sense. Him being an Inquisitor is shit.
The Grand Inquisitor was defeated by Kanan, who is basically as strong as a decent padawan, and weaker than Ahsoka in The Cone Wars TV show, let alone Ahsoka in Rebels TV show who absolutely destroyed in a fight two inquisitors at once.

So, making the ultimate villain be someone who would be defeated by a Kenobi-like level of Jedi with his left hand while he was pissing with his right, would be kind of stupid. If Luke developed a bit since ROTJ, he should be able to defeat any inquisitor (or, all of them combined), without even using a lightsaber. Heck, Anakin in Attack of the Clones would have absolutely destroyed them without even getting tired.

If they want him to look threatening, he should either be Plagueis or some similar character. Not someone weak in the force. 

I disagree.  It plays with audience expectations.  Audience expects Snoke to be powerful, but he turns out to be a weakling.   He's straight up a Wizard of Oz expy.  He pretends to be all powerful, but he's in fact weak.  He's knowledgeable in the Dark Side, having been trained by the Emperor or Vader, but he has none of the power.  Kylo Ren believes Snoke is a powerful darkside user, but he's being manipulated.   And when he realizes how weak Snoke is, he will kill him.

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From the perspective of someone who has only ever seen the films and never got around to delving into the EU etc. I couldn't care less if Snoke was Plageius or some new villain. I barely even remembered who Plageius was, he was the subject of a five minute conversation  in a very forgettable film. Maybe that scene had more impact to others but I just didn't really care. 

Eta: And I'm with ab regarding Carrie Fisher. Her appearance was fine. Her speech/ acting less so...

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Man, this thread moves fast. I have been reading all your posts attentively and after thinking about them, I have to agree with pretty much every "nickpick" I have read on here so far.  That's what really brings this movie down. And then it hit me. This is a SW movie, it does rip-off ANH, but what it really reminds me of outside of that is the first Avengers movie. It too was really good and fun on a first watch, but the flaws of The Avengers became really noticeable on rewatches (a dragging first half, chitauri being pretty shitty antagonists, etc.).

TFA has something similar going on.

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I disagree.  It plays with audience expectations.  Audience expects Snoke to be powerful, but he turns out to be a weakling.   He's straight up a Wizard of Oz expy.  He pretends to be all powerful, but he's in fact weak.  He's knowledgeable in the Dark Side, having been trained by the Emperor or Vader, but he has none of the power.  Kylo Ren believes Snoke is a powerful darkside user, but he's being manipulated.   And when he realizes how weak Snoke is, he will kill him.

Sure, if the idea is to do that it kind of works. But they can do that with any other weak force user.

SW Rebels is watched only by 0.5m people in average. The trilogy will be watched by hundreds of millions of people. 99.5% of them won't have an idea who is the Inquisitor, so kind of pointless to make Snoke him.

On the other side, a lot of people will remind the opera scene and Darth Plagueis. Even if they don't do it, just establishing that Snoke is Palps old master will have some effect.

 

From the perspective of someone who has only ever seen the films and never got around to delving into the EU etc. I couldn't care less if Snoke was Plageius or some new villain. I barely even remembered who Plageius was, he was the subject of a five minute conversation  in a very forgettable film. Maybe that scene had more impact to others but I just didn't really care. 

Very interesting. It is unanimously rated as the best scene in the prequels.

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Man, this thread moves fast. I have been reading all your posts attentively and after thinking about them, I have to agree with pretty much every "nickpick" I have read on here so far.  That's what really brings this movie down. And then it hit me. This is a SW movie, it does rip-off ANH, but what it really reminds me of outside of that is the first Avengers movie. It too was really good and fun on a first watch, but the flaws of The Avengers became really noticeable on rewatches (a dragging first half, chitauri being pretty shitty antagonists, etc.).

TFA has something similar going on.

I actually found completely the opposite. Most of the nitpicks bothered me less on my second viewing, not more, and the things that still bother me aren't really a big deal. 

I think some people are just expecting too much, and (this isn't meant as a personal criticism), that is going to stop them enjoying not only this Star Wars movie, but any future ones. It's not perfect, but it is Star Wars, and it's a lot of fun. It sets a good foundation for the future and it expands on the existing Star Wars canon.

I'm just doing my best to avoid getting into the kind of nitpicking that it's easy to fall into as a big Star Wars fan - if we wanted to, we could pick apart any Star Wars story, including any of the OT films - but enjoying the film rather than picking it apart at every opportunity is a choice, just like suspension of disbelief, IMO.

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Sure, if the idea is to do that it kind of works. But they can do that with any other weak force user.
SW Rebels is watched only by 0.5m people in average. The trilogy will be watched by hundreds of millions of people. 99.5% of them won't have an idea who is the Inquisitor, so kind of pointless to make Snoke him.

 

It's a shame, because Rebels is brilliant.

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