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Small Questions v. 10104

Rhaenys_Targaryen

By Rhaenys_Targaryen,
in General (ASoIaF)

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Lommy's Shade Freerider

Lommy's Shade

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"He tossed the skull back into the mouth of the tree, where it landed with a puff of fine ash."

Is there any significance to this? Why toss it into the tree? Am I reading to much into this? 

They had found the skull inside the mouth of the weirwood and Mormont was just putting it back. He tossed it because he's still on horseback. Kind of like when I throw stuff into the trash from my office chair because I'm too lazy to walk it over.

I think the skulls are a signifier of how much the Night's Watch has forgotten about their true purpose. The wildlings burn their dead because they fear becoming wights, but no one in the Watch has any inkling of this.

When he brought the skull to Mormont, the Old Bear lifted it in both hands and stared into the empty sockets. “The wildlings burn their dead. We’ve always known that. Now I wished I’d asked them why, when there were still a few around to ask.”

Jon Snow remembered the wight rising, its eyes shining blue in the pale dead face. He knew why, he was certain.

“Would that bones could talk,” the Old Bear grumbled. “This fellow could tell us much. How he died. Who burned him, and why. Where the wildlings have gone.” He sighed. “The children of the forest could speak to the dead, it’s said. But I can’t.”

 

I don't know, but there were two skulls, one smaller than the other, suggesting a parent and child, and the colors were red on black-red sap on blackened wood. 

Or perhaps, man and wife?

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Lost Melnibonean Council Member

Lost Melnibonean

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They had found the skull inside the mouth of the weirwood and Mormont was just putting it back. He tossed it because he's still on horseback. Kind of like when I throw stuff into the trash from my office chair because I'm too lazy to walk it over.

I think the skulls are a signifier of how much the Night's Watch has forgotten about their true purpose. The wildlings burn their dead because they fear becoming wights, but no one in the Watch has any inkling of this.

 

 

Or perhaps, man and wife?

I agree the passage is reinforcing that the Night's Watch has forgotten what they knew and the realms of men need a last hero. But is there some veiled symbolism or foreshadowing? As to the skull sizes, is a woman's skull significantly smaller than a man's?

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Roddy Darwin Landed Knight

Roddy Darwin

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Is there a topic or possibly even a consistent theory why ghost did not wont to get into the ringfort at the fist of the first men?

I tried to search in the forum but did not find anything relevant.

I'm on my phone and I'm terrible at searching the forums anyway, but I remember someone around here speculating the Fist was warded by magic, similar to the Wall and Storm's End.

Iirc, there was also some discussion on how the Wall seems to be warded against the Others, while Storm's End was warded against Mel's shadowbaby, i.e. fire magic... So one could push the speculation to say that this ward was actually put in place by Others themselves, rather than the Children of the Forest and/or human and/or human-friendly magic wielders.

I definitely remember this being one of the basis of "the Others were just chilling all this time and are NOT just cold killers that hate anything with warm blood like Old Nan says" line of thinking. They only butchered Ser Waymar after he challenged them, and they only went mental at the Night's Watch after they took residence at the Fist. Maybe the Fist was some kind of sanctuary or whatnot to them, and they didn't take kindly to humans digging toilets up there.

(What about them harassing the Wildings, I hear you ask. Well, maybe they didn't like humans messing up the tombs in the Frostfangs, eh?)

Anyway, not much of an answer, sorry. I dunno if I buy it at all, but I like how it ties in with how the Others are also just grey characters - and that much I'm pretty sure on, considering our author and his opinion on evil dark Sauron.

Also don't have a link at hand, and it's quite a ways away from the Ghost at the Fist mystery, but just in case: if you like that line of thinking, I could try and dig up that awesome Reddit theory on exactly wtf was going on in the Game prologue and why the Others killed Waymar (other than "he was hot-blooded, fuck hot-bloodeds lol we're evil"), it was a great read.

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Lost Melnibonean Council Member

Lost Melnibonean

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14 minutes ago, Roddy Darwin said:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/111080-small-questions-v10082/&page=8

I'm on my phone and I'm terrible at searching the forums anyway, but I remember someone around here speculating the Fist was warded by magic, similar to the Wall and Storm's End.

Iirc, there was also some discussion on how the Wall seems to be warded against the Others, while Storm's End was warded against Mel's shadowbaby, i.e. fire magic... So one could push the speculation to say that this ward was actually put in place by Others themselves, rather than the Children of the Forest and/or human and/or human-friendly magic wielders.

I definitely remember this being one of the basis of "the Others were just chilling all this time and are NOT just cold killers that hate anything with warm blood like Old Nan says" line of thinking. They only butchered Ser Waymar after he challenged them, and they only went mental at the Night's Watch after they took residence at the Fist. Maybe the Fist was some kind of sanctuary or whatnot to them, and they didn't take kindly to humans digging toilets up there.

(What about them harassing the Wildings, I hear you ask. Well, maybe they didn't like humans messing up the tombs in the Frostfangs, eh?)

Anyway, not much of an answer, sorry. I dunno if I buy it at all, but I like how it ties in with how the Others are also just grey characters - and that much I'm pretty sure on, considering our author and his opinion on evil dark Sauron.

Also don't have a link at hand, and it's quite a ways away from the Ghost at the Fist mystery, but just in case: if you like that line of thinking, I could try and dig up that awesome Reddit theory on exactly wtf was going on in the Game prologue and why the Others killed Waymar (other than "he was hot-blooded, fuck hot-bloodeds lol we're evil"), it was a great read.

Some answers on this page...

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Kal-L Landed Knight

Kal-L

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Hi guys !

I wondered if you could give me site where I could find quotes from the books ? (Few months ago someone had posted a great site but I don't remember which one it was - basically there was all asoiaf books online including World of Ice and Fire)

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HornblowerHar Commoner

HornblowerHar

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 Where did Rhaegar supposedly kidnap Lyanna?  I was thinking about this and it came to me that it could have been near Raventree Hall.   Raventree isn't so far from Harrenhal.  With the colossal weirwoods in the godswood and the hundreds of ravens that roost every night it might have been where the marriage took place.  That would be a cool way to tie Bloodraven into the story and maybe that's where Bran will have his vision.  I am not sure if he can see through the trees of an ancient weirwood since they turn to stone.  Forgive me if this has been brought up before I know I am not near as wise as most on this site.

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RumHam Council Member

RumHam

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3 minutes ago, HornblowerHar said:

 Where did Rhaegar supposedly kidnap Lyanna?  I was thinking about this and it came to me that it could have been near Raventree Hall.   Raventree isn't so far from Harrenhal.  With the colossal weirwoods in the godswood and the hundreds of ravens that roost every night it might have been where the marriage took place.  That would be a cool way to tie Bloodraven into the story and maybe that's where Bran will have his vision.  I am not sure if he can see through the trees of an ancient weirwood since they turn to stone.  Forgive me if this has been brought up before I know I am not near as wise as most on this site.

It seems like that would probably be too public a place for the wedding. If they had a weirwood ceremony I'd lean towards the Isle of Faces or some secluded weirwood in Dorne. (despite what's said by Catelyn early in Game of Thrones, weirwoods in the south don't seem to be that rare.) 

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HornblowerHar Commoner

HornblowerHar

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4 minutes ago, RumHam said:

It seems like that would probably be too public a place for the wedding. If they had a weirwood ceremony I'd lean towards the Isle of Faces or some secluded weirwood in Dorne. (despite what's said by Catelyn early in Game of Thrones, weirwoods in the south don't seem to be that rare.) 

Well now that you mention it that does seem like too public of a place for a secret wedding.  Thanks

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Rhaenys_Targaryen Council Member

Rhaenys_Targaryen

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16 hours ago, HornblowerHar said:

 Where did Rhaegar supposedly kidnap Lyanna?  I was thinking about this and it came to me that it could have been near Raventree Hall.   Raventree isn't so far from Harrenhal.  With the colossal weirwoods in the godswood and the hundreds of ravens that roost every night it might have been where the marriage took place.  That would be a cool way to tie Bloodraven into the story and maybe that's where Bran will have his vision.  I am not sure if he can see through the trees of an ancient weirwood since they turn to stone.  Forgive me if this has been brought up before I know I am not near as wise as most on this site.

He took her ten leagues from Harrenhal, and Raventree is located a bit further away.

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