Rhoynar Water Magic

[Saving Stannis]

I apologize if this has already been brought up in another thread... 

From A Thousand Ships

It was said the Rhoynar princes wielded strange, uncanny powers...and that their cities were protected by "watery walls" that would rise to drown any foe.
 

The First Turtle War lasted less than a moon's turn. Sar Mell was raided and burned, yet emerged victorious when Rhoynish water wizards called up the power of the river and flooded Volon Therys. Half the city was washed away, if the tales can be believed.

 

Any ideas on what to make of the "water magic" mentioned in connection with the Rhoynar? Sounds like it could have its roots in a couple of the different supernatural ideologies. The Drowned God and the Children of the Forest (flooding the Neck) come to mind.

 

...but the prince [Garin] it is said, called down a curse upon the conquerors, entreating Mother Rhoyne to avenger her children. And so, that very night, the Rhoyne flooded out of season and with greater force than was known in living memory. A thick fog full of evil humors fell, and the Valyrian conquerors began to die of greyscale.

That one even makes it sound like the Rhoynish (conjugation?) were responsible for the advent of greyscale.

 

 Interested on what the thought on this is out there...

[RobertRivers]

I immediately thought of the Drowned God-Other connection that you see on this forum everyone in a while.

[hiemal]

The Drowned God is of the sea. The Rhyonish gods are riparian and Tyrion's crossing under the Bridge of Dreams twice shows they are still at least partially engaged.

[RobertRivers]

I'm not saying they are related, but I am saying they are similar enough to make me wonder. There is a shrouded Lord who seems to be the lord of the damned, while Others seem to be the leaders of the wights, which could be considered "damned" in their own way. The only wight  damned in the traditional sense is cold hands though. 

I really don't know too much about him to be saying that with certainty. I'm just assuming that based on the info we get in adwd.

I had more in my head about fog and snow but I forgot it. If I remember it I'll ramble more nonsense. Maybe something about a tree also.

This was all done under the assumption that the DG and Others areconnected

[hiemal]

I think the similarity is superficial, but the Shrouded Lord is a fascinating and enigmatic figure. He seems to be more tragic than the kind of elder evil I think of when I think the DG.

It is implied that the Rhoynar (or more specifically I think the mother-goddess Rhoyne herself) was responsible for greyscale, and I've seen it put forward that this links them to the Others. I'm of the opinion that the elemental forces include more than the ice and fire mentioned in the Song. The Rhoynar hydromancers and Asshai'i aeromancers hint as much, anyways.

 

[Lordsteve666]

Something I thought could be rather cool would be what if the Rhoynar rather than having water magic as such were just really really good at building water based defences and traps, being that they were living in such close relationship with the river.

The watery walls sounds to me like a boobytrapped defensive wall, some sort of mechanism for releasing stored water down on attackers and wash them away in a deluge. A bit like boiling oil but with water and on a massive scale.

And the mention of the river rising out of season to wash away a whole settlement, what about some sort of irrigation system come defensive network where the force of the great river could be redirected in times of need to flood attackers out of the city? Sort of like diverting it onto a flood plain to drown the enemy army, or releasing reservoirs upstream to flood enemy cities further down the river.

I know it's not as fantastical as water magic but to enemies not used to it it would all seem like magic and it would be cool as a way of showing how something physical and real grew into a more mystical and legendary tale over time. A bit like how the tales of the Age of Heros are probably distorted from what actually happened. 

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

The Drowned God is actually not fundamentally associated with water...he is "drowned," implying that he's not native to water. He's actually much more associated with fire than water. Note that Ironborn don't manipulate water at all, and don't seem to have any legends about having done so in the past. It's all about drowning and coming back from the dead...which does imply a connection to the Others or at least their brand of wight magic.

Rhoynar on the other hand are primarily known for manipulating water, and for having lovely architecture and a mostly peaceful--or at least non-expansionist--civilization. Ironborn have pretty utilitarian architecture and are extremely expansionist every time they get half a chance. So Drowned God and Mother Rhoyne seem to be different in every way, really, from their relationship to water (DG is *in* the water, MR, *is* the water) to the type of culture they inspire.

Greyscale is an interesting point, though. Shireen contracts greyscale on Dragonstone, which is very much in the sea, which tends to be DG territory. All other known greyscale cases seem to be associated with the Rhoyne area. Except Val implies that the wildlings have experience with greyscale, so....hard to say what exactly the magic source that causes greyscale is.

 

Could be that Rhoynar invoked a darker power, not Mother Rhoyne, on the Valyrians. Greyscale is associated with damp and fog...fog (at least fog over water) is generally caused by water and heat; cooler air passing over warmer water, which causes evaporation. Magically speaking, this could stem from a fiery underwater presence, such as the DG. So DG as source of greyscale makes a lot of sense, even though it first appeared in historical MR territory. And there's some nice irony about the fire-magic culture actually being cursed by a fire power rather than a water power as they thought. :-)

[John Suburbs]

I've always wondered that if anyone would want to instill something like fire resistance or fire immunity to their bloodline, it would be the Rhoynar. They fought a 200-year+ war with the Valyrians and their dragons, and it would make sense that water magic could be used in some way to at least blunt the affects of fire.

So if Dany does, in fact, possess some kind of heightened ability to withstand heat and fire -- and GRRM has said point blank that there is no Targaryen resistance to fire -- then maybe it comes from her Dornish/Rhoynar heritage.

[Jon Fossoway]

When I read that I thought of the water elementals in Warcraft I.  

[Lord Wraith]

Maybe some of that Rhoynish water magic is the reason that Sunspear was never burned by the dragons. It like Qarth are triple walled cities that were somehow ignored by the dragons.

[Saving Stannis]

So if Dany does, in fact, possess some kind of heightened ability to withstand heat and fire -- and GRRM has said point blank that there is no Targaryen resistance to fire -- then maybe it comes from her Dornish/Rhoynar heritage.

boom goes the dynamite

[Evolett]

You'll find an analysis of water magic here.