Glendon Ball-Parentage

[Squire-of-the-Bat]

As anyone who read "The Mystery Knight' knows, Ser Glendon 'Ball' claims he's the son of the famous Ser Quentyn Ball, AKA Fireball, yet he looks nothing like him. I realize that doesn't necesarally mean anything because lots of boys don't look like their fathers, but does anyone think for sure he's not?

[Jaak]

A question I have asked is - how many of his fathers were present at the Whitewalls tourney?

[Shuvuuia]

I think it's supposed to be left ambiguous. And it's more interesting and more realistic like that, than if we had a definite answer.  

(but I hope he eventually finds out that Fire Ball was kind of a dick)

[Jaak]

OK, my previous inquiry about the knight is archived. I hope you don t mind my double posting it.

The Whitewalls Tournament was in 212.

Battle of Redgrass Field was in 196.

So it was 16 years since Fireball, or any of the other 99, begat Glendon.

And thus only 15 years since he was born.

15 year old knights were not unknown. Jaime, Barristan and Daeron the Daring were.

But that´s regarded as young. Josmyn Peckledon, at 15, was refused knighthood till he got older.

Did Glendon deserve knighthood on any substantive grounds, other than his sister´s maidenhead? Sure, he was militarily trained and fairly good at that. So are plenty of trueborn nobles. On his merits, should he have been told to train a couple more years as a squire and be knighted at age 17 or 18?

Also: Whitewalls Tournament was heavily a black dragon fighter reunion.

100 men mated with Penny Jenny over the night before Redgrass Field, earning her 1 stag 5 stars 1 groat. A number more did pay their pence over the week or so preceding, that made a plausible range for conception.

Of these 100, Quentyn and no doubt many others died on the morrow. Many of the survivors surely died of natural causes, including spring, in the intervening 16 years, many of survivors went to exile and joined Golden Company, and many survivors in Westeros still did not show up at Whitewalls.

Yet, considering that 100 men total mated with her that night, how many of these do you think did attend Whitewalls?

[Sarah Seastar]

I don't think we will ever know for sure but if you believe he is, I think it makes the story more interesting.  Fireball was promised a place in the KG but did not receive it and Glendon was knighted for less than honorable reasons.  I like the comparison between the two and how Fireball was on the BF side of the rebellion and Glendon faces Daemon in the Whitewalls tourney. But I do think the ladies at the pussywillow probably either made the story up or embellished it for Glendon's sake.

[Shuvuuia]

 

Did Glendon deserve knighthood on any substantive grounds, other than his sister´s maidenhead? Sure, he was militarily trained and fairly good at that. So are plenty of trueborn nobles. On his merits, should he have been told to train a couple more years as a squire and be knighted at age 17 or 18?

 

I think he is implied to be a prodigy. He didn't receive a proper training, yet he was winning again and again.

As far a I remember, a knight didn't have money to buy his sister' virginity and likely it was her and other girl's idea to "make a present" to Glendon. If he refused, there probably won't be another opportunity.

plus no one would take him as a proper squire unless he stumbled at a very altruistic, not prejudged person.

 

Yet, considering that 100 men total mated with her that night, how many of these do you think did attend Whitewalls?

I doubt it was 100 men (is it even possible to have penetrative sex with 100 men in a day?). Clearly it's an  exaggerated story

[Lord Varys]

Glendon is described as a natural rider and he is obviously very good at what he does. He received some little training from a guy at the brothel or in the village - was it a former squire or something like that, I don't remember? - but that's it.

And regardless who his father is it is very presumptuous of him to actually claim the name 'Ball' considering that his mother was definitely not married to Ser Quentyn Ball even if the latter was the guy who fathered him - which I actually doubt considering that Glendon apparently looks nothing like his father.

As to his future I'd find the idea interesting that Glendon and Dunk will eventually become enemies if Bittersteel and Haegon turn out to be less stupid/shortsighted than Daemon II and Peake (although at least Daemon tried to be kind to him) and eventually win his friendship. After all, the bastard of a infamous Black Dragon supporter has little to expect from the establishment in Westeros under the Targaryens. It is not even clear whether House Ball actually survived the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

[Shuvuuia]

 

As to his future I'd find the idea interesting that Glendon and Dunk will eventually become enemies if Bittersteel and Haegon turn out to be less stupid/shortsighted than Daemon II and Peake (although at least Daemon tried to be kind to him) and eventually win his friendship. After all, the bastard of a infamous Black Dragon supporter has little to expect from the establishment in Westeros under the Targaryens. It is not even clear whether House Ball actually survived the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

idk, Glendon could' have  had enough of Black Dragon after the treatment he got. Even if Haegon isn't Daemon II, he could be very disillusioned with blackfyre supporters in general.

[direpupy]

Glendon is described as a natural rider and he is obviously very good at what he does. He received some little training from a guy at the brothel or in the village - was it a former squire or something like that, I don't remember? - but that's it.

Yes it was a squire that had gotten old and lived nearby the pussywillows.

[direpupy]

dp

[Squire-of-the-Bat]

  

(but I hope he eventually finds out that Fire Ball was kind of a dick)

My sentiments exactly. Ball had no more justification for what he did than Charles Guiteau for shooting President Garfield.

[Lion of the West]

Glendon is described as a natural rider and he is obviously very good at what he does. He received some little training from a guy at the brothel or in the village - was it a former squire or something like that, I don't remember? - but that's it.

And regardless who his father is it is very presumptuous of him to actually claim the name 'Ball' considering that his mother was definitely not married to Ser Quentyn Ball even if the latter was the guy who fathered him - which I actually doubt considering that Glendon apparently looks nothing like his father.

As to his future I'd find the idea interesting that Glendon and Dunk will eventually become enemies if Bittersteel and Haegon turn out to be less stupid/shortsighted than Daemon II and Peake (although at least Daemon tried to be kind to him) and eventually win his friendship. After all, the bastard of a infamous Black Dragon supporter has little to expect from the establishment in Westeros under the Targaryens. It is not even clear whether House Ball actually survived the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

If I understand you correctly here I pretty much agree. Glendon has based a great deal around his supposed father and that father was an iconic champion of the Blackfyre cause. If Glendon turns entirely sour over the whole Blackfyre thing then I would be very suprised given how his character has been written.

And then there's this; "young swords are better than old names", my personal interpretation is that this is a quote by Aegor Rivers and it foreshadows that he and Haegon will be much more open-minded to Glendon than Lord Peake who dismissed that saying, ever was.

[Jaak]

I doubt it was 100 men (is it even possible to have penetrative sex with 100 men in a day?). Clearly it's an  exaggerated story

Is it possible to have penetrative sex in 7 minutes?

[Shuvuuia]

Is it possible to have penetrative sex in 7 minutes?

 

what I meant is wouldn't she died from exhaustion plus (unpleasant stuff under spoiler)

other things like tearing

[Lord Varys]

If I understand you correctly here I pretty much agree. Glendon has based a great deal around his supposed father and that father was an iconic champion of the Blackfyre cause. If Glendon turns entirely sour over the whole Blackfyre thing then I would be very suprised given how his character has been written.

And then there's this; "young swords are better than old names", my personal interpretation is that this is a quote by Aegor Rivers and it foreshadows that he and Haegon will be much more open-minded to Glendon than Lord Peake who dismissed that saying, ever was.

Well, I generally think that it is naive to think that anyone Dunk and Egg have friendly interactions with will later turn out their best buddy. We already have the example of the Laughing Storm who eventually turns against them in the wake of the whole Jenny affair.

In general, one has to keep in mind that people change. Bloodraven and Maekar illustrate that, too. Maekar being pissed about his royal brother and uncle in 211 AC doesn't mean he has to be still pissed in 221 AC, when Aerys I dies, and Maekar has long been named Prince of Dragonstone.

Ran and Linda even told us that there was more to Aerion than just madness and cruelty.

And I also expect a lot of twists and turns until Dunk ends up in the Kingsguard.

In Glendon's case the things that might hint at the fact that he has an interesting road ahead of him is the fact that he actually claimed the name Ball - suggesting that there is a sort of ambition/greed in his personality aiming at greatness that may set him apart from Dunk (who never claimed he was Ser Arlan's son or kinsman, for instance). Even more importantly, Glendon was unable to accept Peake's offer of ample coin and a place at Daemon's side in exchange for losing during the tourney - that could mean his personal desire to show everyone his skills with a lance was more important to him than loyalty to his liege lord and king (although I don't think that Peake actually told Glendon who the Fiddler was when he made that offer - but if Glendon's talk with Dunk later is any indication, then he wouldn't have lost even for Daemon II Blackfyre).

Assuming that Glendon suffers rejection and humiliation in the following years from the Westerosi nobility, I could easily see him leaving Westeros for Essos, joining the Golden Company (which was yet unfounded during the Second Blackfyre Rebellion, and should quickly gain fame in the years to come in Essos and Westeros), and if Haegon I Blackfyre eventually formally legitimizes him as Ser Glendon of House Ball, promising him the ancestral seat of House Ball in the Reach once they have taken the Iron Throne away from the Targaryens, I'm pretty sure the man would be loyal to the death to his new king.

But that's just speculation.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Glendon is described as a natural rider and he is obviously very good at what he does. He received some little training from a guy at the brothel or in the village - was it a former squire or something like that, I don't remember? - but that's it.

And regardless who his father is it is very presumptuous of him to actually claim the name 'Ball' considering that his mother was definitely not married to Ser Quentyn Ball even if the latter was the guy who fathered him - which I actually doubt considering that Glendon apparently looks nothing like his father.

As to his future I'd find the idea interesting that Glendon and Dunk will eventually become enemies if Bittersteel and Haegon turn out to be less stupid/shortsighted than Daemon II and Peake (although at least Daemon tried to be kind to him) and eventually win his friendship. After all, the bastard of a infamous Black Dragon supporter has little to expect from the establishment in Westeros under the Targaryens. It is not even clear whether House Ball actually survived the First Blackfyre Rebellion.

While I agree that not everyone Egg and Dunk will meet along the way will become or remain their friend, in Glendon's specific case, there might be hints that he will end up in the KG (though, of course, in a twist, he could turn out to become a KG for one of the Pretenders)..

"That's true enough," the boy said grudgingly. "But my father was once promised a place amongst the Kingsguard. I mean to claim the white cloak that he never got to wear."

You have as much chance of wearing a white cloak as I do, Dunk almost said. You were born of a camp follower, and I Crawled out of the gutters of Flea Bottom. Kings do not heap honor on the likes of you and me. [..]

We know that Dunk will eventually wear a white cloak, so this might be a hint that Glendon, in the end, will see his dream fullfilled... Though, as I said, it does not necessarily have to be for a Targaryen King... 

[Blackfyre Bastard]

Ok, so Glendon Ball claims to be Fireball's son, probably he believes he is too, but what I don't understand is how the alleged son of one of the most prominent figures of the Blackfyre host ends up by pure coincidence in the middle of a secret Blackfyre gathering with the purpose to raise a new rebellion to seat another Blackfyre on the IT? He wasn't invited, IIRC he was almost kicked out.

Is this a case of "because plot"?

 

[RumHam]

Ok, so Glendon Ball claims to be Fireball's son, probably he believes he is too, but what I don't understand is how the alleged son of one of the most prominent figures of the Blackfyre host ends up by pure coincidence in the middle of a secret Blackfyre gathering with the purpose to raise a new rebellion to seat another Blackfyre on the IT? He wasn't invited, IIRC he was almost kicked out.

Is this a case of "because plot"?

It's not really a huge coincidence. He, like Dunk and many others, was there to try and win the dragon egg. While they did invite mostly people they thought would be sympathetic to the Blackfyre cause it wasn't an invitation only event. The reason Glendon was initially denied entry is because the steward didn't think he was really a knight. 

[Ser Creighton]

See I always thought there was this sort of odd similarity to Glen and his twin sister and Cersei and Jaime. Thought it might allude to something Cersei did to get Jaime in the KG. The father getting passed over by one king, a civil war, and he dies by an arrow. The father was tied heavily to the Targs and Civil war.

I also wondered about the Archer who actually shot him, as a rather famous Targaryen Archer was at the Red Grass fields and that Archer was also at Whitewalls and that's some pretty good Irony if it's right. Also Glen and Jaime being the young night's though, it's a bit of an inverse story with the Lannisters being rich and Jaime being this sort of Handsome Night and Glen being sort of the opposite person but with a similar story. It's kind of an inexact parallel. It can create or suggest an image or an idea but it's not the exact same obviously. But I will be interested see if it end in a similar manner in the future of Dunk and Egg and the original series.

[Shuvuuia]

In Glendon's case the things that might hint at the fact that he has an interesting road ahead of him is the fact that he actually claimed the name Ball - suggesting that there is a sort of ambition/greed in his personality aiming at greatness that may set him apart from Dunk (who never claimed he was Ser Arlan's son or kinsman, for instance).

I think it's a very understandible "ambition" to want to distance himself from his life of a prostitute's bastard. As I see it, Glendon lashed at this cool hero figure and developed an exaggerated hero-worship of his supposed father.

They way he stubbornly insists on being a Ball - I don't see it as an action of someone who is motivated by greed or regular ambition, but as a nearly pathological desire for a new identity, to be someone important. 

(And he was quite horribly tortured - I guess even if Bittersteel is super generous, Glendon still would be cautious to join him. Personally when I read the story, I saw his statement of how he would've died for Daemon, etc,  as him breaking from Blackfyre worship for good.)

And I can see him throwing his sister (and mother) under the bus but - this is a speculation and a wishful thinking - he probably saw the mistreatment of women and I wonder if he will find out about the Fire Ball's "forced his wife to the Silent sisters" thing and realize that being known as a knight of the pussy-willows maybe better than being  Fire Ball's son.