Why is cynicism appealing?

[Nas!]

Those of us in the equine community all know that unicorns give bad head.  And that's not just me being cynical--that horn is bloody dangerous!

[Bonesy]

I love life. I hate Christmas. Split your question to address these very different subjects or your question remains bullshit.

[Bonesy]

...

[Magnar of Skagos]

Few things make me laugh as much as excessive consumers criticizing Christmas for being consumerist.

[TrueMetis]

I'd say some cynicism is warranted during a time period that for much of human history meant the young, sick, and elderly had a good chance of dying.

[Dr. Pepper]

Few things make me laugh as much as excessive consumers criticizing Christmas for being consumerist.

Few things make me laugh as much as someone who thinks being a member of a specific group means they aren't allowed to criticize elements of that group.  This is as dumb as thinking that there is something problematic with conservatives criticizing the GOP primaries or a collegiate athlete criticizing the NCAA. 

 

[Magnar of Skagos]

Few things make me laugh as much as someone who thinks being a member of a specific group means they aren't allowed to criticize elements of that group.  This is as dumb as thinking that there is something problematic with conservatives criticizing the GOP primaries or a collegiate athlete criticizing the NCAA. 

There is a world of difference between blatant hypocrisy and not blindly following your favourite political/religious/etc,etc,etc, party or group. Some guy that fought and bit and kicked his way through a black-friday crowd to get the newest iPhone, only to then go on to post about how much he hates how awfully consumerist Christmas is, is quite different than a liberal for instance saying "I am happy with most of Obama's policies, but..."

[sologdin]

am not persuaded that 'cynicism' is precisely used in this thread.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sologdin,

Do you prefer the classical Greek idea of cynicism as a form of skepticism to the modern definition?

[Inigima]

Inigima,

You are certianly entitled to that opinion and to call me a liar.  However, what I said is truely my opinion regardless of your opinion.  My problem is not people grumpy at the holiday.  It their grumpiness at those of us who are not grumpy.

I don't think you're a liar, I think you misread yourself.

[sologdin]

scot, you know me well enough to predict that i'll prefer the ancient or archaic significances of terms, sure. the pre-modern significance of the holiday might have much in common with some of diogenes' ideas, to be honest, so it may be fair to say that it is a cynical holiday in the ancient sense.

 

the modern term by contrast is kinda a conceptual mess, combining skepticism and pessimism, usually to impugn the motives of others on the basis of an illiberal's aesthetic assumption that market participation is somehow coarse or gross. for this particular holiday, i can't imagine a set of facts wherein that significance will apply.  is there anyone who really puts on a theatre of religious devotion but really is only involved in the winter solstice mass for crass commercial reasons? i'd prefer to think that a large majority of celebrants are genuinely devoted to the pre-modern theological significance as one of the most important things in their lives--but also simultaneously and without any disabling contradiction or hypocrisy meaningfully participate in the modern market-liberal components of the holiday.  there's room in our brains for both, and if there's a dialectical antagonism there, so what? that's normal; the world is a complex place.

i much prefer sloterdijk's (postmodern) usage of the term, which might best be summarized as knowing participation in what is believed to be the false. here, that would likely mean a atheist's attendance at mass, say, or perhaps a charming marxist's taking of his lovely daughter to sit on santa's lap, not that i know anything about these things.

the distinction here is that holiday haters may regard it as the false, either the pre-modern theistic significance alone, or in juxtaposition with the modern market significance--but they are unlikely to be knowing participants therein with those portions they regard as fraudulent. it's the type & degree of acquiescence, i think, with the material practice that marks out sloterdijkian cynicism (in marxist terms, he will designate it as 'enlightened false consciousness.')

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

My wife and I got into a discussion of modern versus anicent cynicism on our way to visit her best friend for Christmas.  It was interesting.

[Zoë Sumra]

My own holiday cynicism stems from all that festivity being bloody exhausting. Crowds of relatives coming round all the time = endless, endless work.  Now, it's fine if everyone - I mean everyone - knuckles in at every stage and does their bit.  Realistically that doesn't happen in family situations, as some are too young to help much and others are guests, and therefore you get the unpleasant result of a "holiday" consisting of constant drudgery over multiple days for those who are doing the work.  The people I've known who get it right tend to be friendship groups rather than relative groups.

Add that enforced proximity to other people with no break is downright unpleasant for introverts, and you have a perfect recipe for holiday cynicism even if ignoring over-commercialisation.  (Plus, even if you take the religious meaning of the season as primary, it's not all roses.  I deeply appreciated our priest's sermon last Thursday night/Friday morning, on the unGodly nature of activities proclaimed as holy by certain religious groups of all faiths, but it's a sad reflection on the world.)

[YellowDogJen]

My own holiday cynicism stems from all that festivity being bloody exhausting. Crowds of relatives coming round all the time = endless, endless work.  Now, it's fine if everyone - I mean everyone - knuckles in at every stage and does their bit.  Realistically that doesn't happen in family situations, as some are too young to help much and others are guests, and therefore you get the unpleasant result of a "holiday" consisting of constant drudgery over multiple days for those who are doing the work.  The people I've known who get it right tend to be friendship groups rather than relative groups.

Add that enforced proximity to other people with no break is downright unpleasant for introverts, and you have a perfect recipe for holiday cynicism even if ignoring over-commercialisation.  (Plus, even if you take the religious meaning of the season as primary, it's not all roses.  I deeply appreciated our priest's sermon last Thursday night/Friday morning, on the unGodly nature of activities proclaimed as holy by certain religious groups of all faiths, but it's a sad reflection on the world.)

This is exactly right. At one point (or a few points!) I loudly groused that I wasn't going to do this (Christmas crap) ever again! In my experience, Christmas is "The Mom Show" and I get very little help, unless I insist - in which case I'm seen as a big Scrooge. It's tons of work for little reward. I mean, I had to wrap my own (three!) gifts. Yeah, I'm cynical, I guess.

[Dr. Pepper]

There is a world of difference between blatant hypocrisy and not blindly following your favourite political/religious/etc,etc,etc, party or group. Some guy that fought and bit and kicked his way through a black-friday crowd to get the newest iPhone, only to then go on to post about how much he hates how awfully consumerist Christmas is, is quite different than a liberal for instance saying "I am happy with most of Obama's policies, but..."

No, there really is not much difference at all in being part of a group and yet having criticisms of that group.  The existence of Christmas as a celebration to the gods of capitalism is, after all, what leads consumers to fight over iphones and flatscreens.  That electronics-fighting-consumer wants to purchase whatever tech piece but can only afford to pay the black friday/cyber monday/green monday/xmas season prices doesn't make his criticism about xmas as a commercial celebration hypocritical.  He's not talking about not wanting to be part of a particular economy or market anymore but about aspects of that market - in this case, a holiday that is partly about celebrating buying stuff - being problematic and/or distasteful.  

[Arkhangel]

Those of us in the equine community all know that unicorns give bad head.  And that's not just me being cynical--that horn is bloody dangerous!

And not just the horn. Dear unicorn-fanciers, I encourage you all to Youtube 'horse eating carrot' and then get back to me on whether you're still feeling so horny.*

 

* had to be done.

[Minstral]

My own cynicism of the holiday is grounded in a bit of eye rolling at things, but actually celebrating with people. I'm not the most avid consumer, so I try to scale back the gifts that I could be given or what I would buy for myself . This countered by the fact that me and my sister will go half and half on presents though... so she goes out of her way to buy more, out of an idea that she has to give more to people, and stacking up a cost that she really shouldn't considering her debt. Things that I am given are almost always of no use to me, and end up being a dead weight, even as a I try to drill it into peoples heads that I don't need much of anything (or that my sister should stop having knee jerk reactions that people need expensive and useless gifts), but to no avail.

I still celebrate with family though, get out there and live it as I can.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Inigima,

You are certianly entitled to that opinion and to call me a liar.  However, what I said is truely my opinion regardless of your opinion.  My problem is not people grumpy at the holiday.  It their grumpiness at those of us who are not grumpy.

Is that really very common though? I've heard a lot of reasons explaining why people are unhappy during the holidays or just can't get into the "spirit" of the season, but I've never really met someone who actively disliked people for feeling happy. Normally it's just someone going through a hard time who gets upset when someone says, "Cheer up, it's Christmas."

[Arkhangel]

Yeah, I've never seen anyone going out of their way to try to make strangers grumpy around Christmas. I've seen many, many people going out of their way to try to make strangers be, or at least act happy around Christmas, whether said strangers like it or not. In terms of imposing opinions on others, the pro-Christmas camp is undeniably more guilty than the anti-Christmas faction.

[lacuna]

Ennui, a lack of interest, enthusiasm or spirit, better describes my feelings toward Christmas than cynicism. There are things I like about Christmas, but more things that I don't.