Did anybody else like Tywin Lannister?

[Thuckey]

Tywin Lannister is often times viewed as one of the main "bad guys" early in the series but later on as just the asshole father of some of the main characters, with Starks being the protagonists in book 1, and the Lannisters eventually being seen in a somewhat better light and promotion from antaganists to protagonists themselves he is given much more depth and even still continues to be viewed mostly in a negative light. 

 

But when you really think about it, a lot of the things he does seems perfectlly reasonable given the motivations (the defending of his own house) so can you really blame him for being himself? He wasn't particularly outright EVIL like his infamous mad dog Gregor Clegane and the rest, although he was pretty devoid of empathy and other softer emotions. But that just makes him stronger. You can't blame a guy for being a successful leader and for wanting the safety and doing what was nessacary for his legacy to be of the highest regard. 

 

He did a lot of things that ultimately made House Lannister the most powerful, rich, and feared house in Westeros, despite being unliked by many. But the more you think about it, the more logical this seems and the goals themselves aren't stupid or pointless, these are some pretty amazing accomplishments. And Tywin himself, although cold at times, does say a lot of things that make sense in regards to the advancement of his house and legacy of family etc. I actually grew to respect and like him as a character.

 

His death when you think about it didn't really have that much sasitfaction or justification attached to it - It was an exciting plot turn and made for an epic Arch for one of the most popular characters (Tyrion) but it wasn't a great "justice" being done or good conquering evil. This is perhaps why this series is so amazing, that everything can be seen in a gray light.

 

Did anybody else actually like Tywin Lannister and understand his actions and role in the story? Discuss. 

[Light a wight tonight]

Knowing Clegane's character Tywin unleashed him against the Riverlands. He knew what would happen, and that's exactly what he wanted. So no free ride. If you use evil you are evil. Denial of this is just sophistry.

There are other points, but that's just more of the same.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Not even his children liked him. All who speak well about him is because he had terrorised their enemies and that was good for them, not because he was a good person.

[Maxxine]

I don't like him but I don't see him as evil in the sense that say Joffrey & Ramsey are evil. He obviously does some questionable things, but he does with what is at least justifiable in his mind. He doesn't just do things for sport. He's just the exact opposite of Ned. He's going to do what needs to be in done regardless of "honor" if it's going to extend his life and protect his family. I can't blame him for that. The worst thing about him to me is the way he treats Tyrion. That's what makes me dislike him. It's obvious he's the Hand that had the tunnel to Chatayas. Biggest hypocrite

[BadWo1f]

I understood his actions, they were even logical at some point. I like the way he's written but liking him as a person? Nop.

[Lord Lannister]

I personally dislike the terms good or evil. They're just two dimensional terms that do a properly developed character a lot of injustice.

[dariopatke]

I did like him. Strong, respectable, sharp minded, cold tempered, proud, ...

The only thing I dont like about him is that a man who cares about his legacy should train his children to be even better than him so they can do the same with theirs and it can go like that forever. He does not do that and clearly he does not care about Lannister legacy, just about his. If he lived for 10 or 15 more years, Tommen would be in problem after his death because Tywin would rule kingdom and wouldnt teach Tommen how to do it himself.

[True.Kitn902]

I like Tywin but he uses a lot of tactics that aren't exactly necessary for example releasing Gregor on the small folk or the Red Wedding, Tywin could have accomplished what he needed by burning fields remember winter is coming the Riverlands need there food to survive so obviously this is still an act of war which Edmure and the River lords would react in the same manor. Attacking castles and stronghold is still "clean" as well and doesn't dirty Tywins Rep, also thenjoy RW is a huge stain on the Lannisters honour and some Lannister relatives are probably rolling in there grave at Tywins actions. Robb was losing after he lost the Karstarks and Freys Tywin could have told Walder to close the Twins and post his 4000k men on other side of the River the North men would have to  cross to return home to retake WF, and 4000 men could definitely hold off the North men until late Tywin hits them in the rear lol.

[John Doe]

 

Not even his children liked him. All who speak well about him is because he had terrorised their enemies and that was good for them, not because he was a good person.

Really? Who were Pycelle's enemies Tywin destroyed? Or Gennas? Jaime likes him btw.

[The Wolves]

He's my most hated character in this series and most likely in literature period. 

I think people like him because he was effective. I hate him because he was so needlessly cruel to so many innocent people who had never done anything to him and his family. 

I agree that the way Tywin died wasn't justice. What would have been justice is for him to see his whole line die out children and grandchildren, for him to see the Lannisters slowly die one by one and for the Lannister line to become in danger of extinction. Than for him to see Casterly Rock crumble and him to be Reeked THAT is justice. But Tyrion killing him is the best thing that happened for Westeros. 

[John Doe]

Knowing Clegane's character Tywin unleashed him against the Riverlands.

Chevauchee was a normal medieval war tactic. The wolves harassed civilians too, both in the Riverlands and Westerlands. 

[King Tyrion I]

I personally dislike the terms good or evil. They're just two dimensional terms that do a properly developed character a lot of injustice.

Thank you, my friend.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

You know what? A single gang rape of a defenseless young girl, in order to make a point, is quite enough to condemn Tywin Lannister and safely tuck him in the "evil" category. I couldn't care less if it fit his own worldview and his own logic. "A lot of the things he does seems perfectlly reasonable given the motivations" is something you could say about the most vicious monsters out there, fictional or real. With this line, you're not defending the position that "he wasn't really evil"; merely that "he wasn't acting randomly". Two very different things.

[dariopatke]

A single gang rape of a defenseless young girl, in order to make a point, is quite enough to condemn Tywin Lannister and safely tuck him in the "evil" category.

Nono, he would be evil if he had killed her or crippled or something like that. Instead he paid her quite well. Im not supporting this but he is not just a psychotic jerk like Joffrey (like what he did to Rose in show), but much more grey.

[WSmith84]

Nono, he would be evil if he had killed her or crippled or something like that. Instead he paid her quite well. Im not supporting this but he is not just a psychotic jerk like Joffrey (like what he did to Rose in show), but much more grey.

He gang-raped a defenseless young girl. Giving her some cash afterwards doesn't make it less evil. It's worse than pretty much any act Joffrey committed.

[princess_snow]

I don't like him but I don't see him as evil in the sense that say Joffrey & Ramsey are evil. He obviously does some questionable things, but he does with what is at least justifiable in his mind. He doesn't just do things for sport. He's just the exact opposite of Ned. He's going to do what needs to be in done regardless of "honor" if it's going to extend his life and protect his family. I can't blame him for that. The worst thing about him to me is the way he treats Tyrion. That's what makes me dislike him. It's obvious he's the Hand that had the tunnel to Chatayas. Biggest hypocrite

I understood his actions, they were even logical at some point. I like the way he's written but liking him as a person? Nop.

Both of these, this is how I feel about him. (Sorry to steal your comments Maxxine and Badwo1f. Think my brain has melted somewhat after the festivities.  )

[The Wolves]

Nono, he would be evil if he had killed her or crippled or something like that. Instead he paid her quite well. Im not supporting this but he is not just a psychotic jerk like Joffrey (like what he did to Rose in show), but much more grey.

He would have been kinder killing her IMO and having her gangraped by a bunch of hardened soldiers is crippling her in a lot of ways. 

He had her violated over and over what Tywin did was beyond evil. 

[dariopatke]

He gang-raped a defenseless young girl. Giving her some cash afterwards doesn't make it less evil. It's worse than pretty much any act Joffrey committed.

At least a Lannister paid his debt (sort of), thats what I wanted to say, she might even start a new life with that money, it is not huge amount but big enough for people like her. Like I said, Im not supporting that, njust think it is not the worst thing that happened. Look at poor Jeyne Poole and thats even before she got married, after wedding I dont even want do discuss.

[John Doe]

I personally dislike the terms good or evil. They're just two dimensional terms that do a properly developed character a lot of injustice.

Exactly.

[FuzzyJAM]

I personally dislike the terms good or evil. They're just two dimensional terms that do a properly developed character a lot of injustice.

Just because you don't want to call a person good or evil doesn't mean the words are bad.  If you have any hesitation calling the gang rape of a 13 year old girl "evil" then you have a very messed up view of the world.  

For my part, I think people confuse competence with someone being good.  Plenty of exceptionally competent people are extremely horrible, plenty of people who can barely tie their shoelaces are lovely.  On the eve of battle, you might want Tywin to be your general rather than Hodor, but that says nothing about who's the better person.  Ability to achieve goals is in itself an admirable quality, but not a moral one.  If you want, you can admire Tamerlane for his talent, but if you think that makes him good. . .nah.