Star Wars Episode 8 - What comes next? (Episode 7 Spoilers)

[Fez]

Why do people keep thinking Poe is one of the new "Big Three"? The character was supposed to die.  He was nothing more than a Wedge retread with a few more lines and a couple scenes not in his X-Wing. By retaining him "just because", he felt like nothing more than a shoehorn. Easily the most easily dismissed new character.  And yes, I know he blew up the Starkiller, but Wedge helped get Death Star II...if Poe was not in the rest of the series, I'd be just fine with that...

Well, its been confirmed that Poe will be in at least VIII. And yeah, he was supposed to die, but clearly that changed; and there's been plenty of characters in fiction that were supposed to die that ended up being central parts of the story (off the top of my head, Ben in Lost and Boyd in Justified).

Maybe he won't end up with the same amount of screen time as Rey or Finn, but even in TFA he had more screen time than anyone else besides those two, Han & Chewie, and Kylo Ren. And he's lumped with Rey and Finn in the billing order. It goes: 

• Ford
• Hamill (ha!)
• Fisher
• Driver
• Ridley
• Boyega
• Issac

And then the rest of the cast, starting with two who were voice/motion capture only. So it seems natural to consider him being closer to Rey and Finn than to Ackbar or Statura or anyone else with the Resistance.

[Nictarion]

 

You say that, but how many of Will Smith's white co-leads are really romantic? Not MiB, not I, Robot. In Hitch, the one where kissing was unavoidable coz it's a rom-com, the director was reportedly prevented from casting Cameron Diaz for exactly that reason; her kissing Will Smith would have caused controversy.

He's involved romantically with Margot Robbie in Focus. 

[dbunting]

There is more evidence to that theory in the Force vision Rey has. Kylo Ren actually kills someone that is attacking her in her vision, and the next scene is her as a 7-8 year old child being left on Jakku. It very well could be possible that they were working together and he was the one who mind swiped her and left her there. 

Couple issues though, if Kylo Ren was working with Rey and he mind wiped her and left her on Jakku, why wouldn't he realize who she was once he had her? Also, why wouldn't he take her with him to train in the Dark side? If she at age 7 was willing to kill people it would only make sense to train her as well.

[dog-days]

There is more evidence to that theory in the Force vision Rey has. Kylo Ren actually kills someone that is attacking her in her vision, and the next scene is her as a 7-8 year old child being left on Jakku. It very well could be possible that they were working together and he was the one who mind swiped her and left her there. 

That's interesting. I've only seen the film once, and completely missed the bit where Ren kills someone who's attacking her. I like the theory that it was Ren who left her on Jakku - because it seems an impossibly cruel thing for Luke to have done. It could also fit in with Ren's Vader fixation - what with Anakin having been born into slavery on Tatooine - and the Sith what-doesn't-kill-you-makes-you-stronger ethos. 

dbunting:

Couple issues though, if Kylo Ren was working with Rey and he mind wiped her and left her on Jakku, why wouldn't he realize who she was once he had her? Also, why wouldn't he take her with him to train in the Dark side? If she at age 7 was willing to kill people it would only make sense to train her as well.

Possibly he does, or is beginning to? I think someone in another thread quoted part of the novelization where Ren says something to himself like, "It's her." That's not in the film, but the manner he deals with her - taking off his mask, trying to convert her to the Dark Side at the end - they might suggest he has some sense of familiarity, even if he hasn't joined the dots.  

As for your second question, Ren is a slightly ambivalent and unpredictable character. He's awful, but he might think she should be older before choosing a side. Or perhaps his life was too dangerous after the massacre. A young man travelling with a girl would attract more notice than a young man travelling on his own. He wanted to disappear, and knew that Han/Luke/Leia would never let this happen if he had Rey in tow. Or he just couldn't be bothered mentoring a child, though I don't have the impression that this is the sort of person he is. He's insecure, and would probably enjoy the power. 

[Howdyphillip]

Couple issues though, if Kylo Ren was working with Rey and he mind wiped her and left her on Jakku, why wouldn't he realize who she was once he had her? Also, why wouldn't he take her with him to train in the Dark side? If she at age 7 was willing to kill people it would only make sense to train her as well.

I think that it was fairly obvious that he did know who she was. I think that the reason he didn't betray her identity to Snoke was because he has a different agenda than him. I think the movie left subtle hints about those two being slightly opposed to one another.

[Jaxom 1974]

Well, its been confirmed that Poe will be in at least VIII. And yeah, he was supposed to die, but clearly that changed; and there's been plenty of characters in fiction that were supposed to die that ended up being central parts of the story (off the top of my head, Ben in Lost and Boyd in Justified).

Maybe he won't end up with the same amount of screen time as Rey or Finn, but even in TFA he had more screen time than anyone else besides those two, Han & Chewie, and Kylo Ren. And he's lumped with Rey and Finn in the billing order. It goes: 

• Ford
• Hamill (ha!)
• Fisher
• Driver
• Ridley
• Boyega
• Issac

And then the rest of the cast, starting with two who were voice/motion capture only. So it seems natural to consider him being closer to Rey and Finn than to Ackbar or Statura or anyone else with the Resistance.

Jack in Lost is an even better analog.  But it also reinforces the idea that JJ has a problem with sticking to a story without trying to complicate things...but I digress...

Honestly, and I know this is bad, but I have zero idea who Issac is. And that might contribute to my ambivalence to the character.  But Poe really is a hang on at this point. 

[Rhom]

Saw someone in one of these threads say that the Reality Gem would be used to merge the Marvel and Star Wars universes... Maybe it already has!

[Alcibiades]

wrong thread :/

[Guess who's back]

There is a theory that Poe might be gay. There certainly was something there when he and Finn reunited.

[Kalbear]

[Persicaria]

And the crack begins to flow! Lol. Hmm, if Ben did abandon Rey in Jakuu; what was his purpose? Could he have been afraid of what was to come, or what he would become? Now, I saw someone ask this, but I simply thought it was implied that Ben killed the others. Is this definite or could it have been another? Also, is Kylo Ren a title or a sith name? I'm a little curious as I skipped quiet a bit of episode 2 and 3 . Could someone else have been responsible for Rey's abduction? I feel like her lose would have been the perfect Catalyst for Ben's fall.  I don't think Han or Leia would be so willing to take him back if they believed he was responsible for his sister's death. They look like desperate people who have already lost many dear to them, but I don't think they (atleast Han would be able to forgive that).

[Alia of the knife]

My own opinion is, (and forgive me if this has been covered as I just found this page), is that Rey is no relation to the Skywalkers or Solos.

I think she is a Kenobi. Now perhaps its my personal bias that they need to expand and develop other characters beyond the Skywalkers and Solos, and certainly the Kenobis would be intriguing, but whether she is Obi Wan's grand daughter or grand niece, (daughter of his nephew), I saw subtle hints, (beyond their fondness for neutral colors), of similarities to Obi Wan.

- The force was pretty strong in the Kenobi family. After all, he did defeat Anakin pretty handily.

- On "Lukes" light saber that Maz had, was it the one that Luke lost when Vader cut off his hand? If so, (and if I remember correctly), wasn't it passed to Anakin FROM Obi Wan? If so, it would explain why it seemed to call to her, and might be another explanation for Luke's expression when he saw Rey with it. It was Lukes, but it had been Obi Wan's originally.

- It was Obi Wan's voice that she hears/remembers.

- I really saw no familial recognition at any point by either Han or Leia.

- I also sensed a fascination in Kylo Ren for Rey that would go beyond (ahem), "familial relations," which could prove to be a vulnerability for him. I suppose his madness could propel him to go "Game of Thrones,"  (he did murder his father, or actually Ford murdered him), but this is also Disney.

- Rey's affinity for communication and languages. Didn't Obi Wan's brother/nephew (?) have a similar affinity for language, cultures and communication, as well as being adept at mind games as he too also had the force?

(I think I remember him being associated with the Ewoks). And wasn't he also a bit of a renegade as he wasn't a part of the Jedi Order as Luke, Yoda, and Obi Wan were).

That would also make Rey's trajectory somewhat ambiguous as those "renegade" ways could take her in a grey area, which would make for an interesting concept. On another forum, I saw it suggested that she used the dark forces to defeat KR, so she could ultimately be pulled in different directions.

Anyway, just some questions and observations.

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 I agree she's definitely not Ren's sister. Han or Leia would've certainly had some reaction to her if that was the case. I kind of like the Kenobi theory, but would be just as happy if she weren't related to any of the old characters. I'm thinking her connection to Ren is probably through Luke's little Jedi school. Perhaps she might have been some sort of catalyst to him getting all stabby with his wonky little saber back in the day?

[Alia of the knife]

 I agree she's definitely not Ren's sister. Han or Leia would've certainly had some reaction to her if that was the case. I kind of like the Kenobi theory, but would be just as happy if she weren't related to any of the old characters. I'm thinking her connection to Ren is probably through Luke's little Jedi school. Perhaps she might have been some sort of catalyst to him getting all stabby with his wonky little saber back in the day?

Thanks for the kudos, and I would COMPLETELY be okay with her not being related to any of them, (and going to the "she's Luke's daughter" theory, though I know Luke as a man could have a later start in life for fatherhood, Hamill is sixty-five, so if Luke is about the same age, he himself is more like Rey's grandfather).

I also agree with your analysis that the connection between Rey and Ben goes back to the school. Despite the age difference, perhaps she was already better at a younger age than Ben was, so I think he was already obsessed with her in terms of her abilities. And if she is of House Kenobi, then there is fate.

 

 

As I said, while I read no indication of familial ties with her on KR's part, (or anyone else), I DID read some creepy fascination, and even possessiveness.

[Fez]

Honestly, and I know this is bad, but I have zero idea who Issac is. And that might contribute to my ambivalence to the character.  But Poe really is a hang on at this point. 

Its not that surprising. He hasn't done a ton of films yet, and most of them weren't major hits. But I think they have all been critically acclaimed, especially his performances. Also, when TFA started filming pretty much his only major role had been Inside Llewyn Davis; whereas in the last 18 months he's had A Most Violent Year, Ex Machina, and Show Me Hero. He's got that Hollywood buzz starting around him, which I think will only increase when his 2016 movies come out (he's Apocalypse in the new X-Men and co-lead in a Christian Bale movie). So I think Disney is likely to do the same thing Fox did with Jennifer Lawerence with X-Men and take advantage of his rising star while he's still under contract.

[lady narcissa]

 

Possibly he does, or is beginning to? I think someone in another thread quoted part of the novelization where Ren says something to himself like, "It's her." That's not in the film, but the manner he deals with her - taking off his mask, trying to convert her to the Dark Side at the end - they might suggest he has some sense of familiarity, even if he hasn't joined the dots.  

 

Pablo Hidalgo on twitter said that line is a callback to the awakening line - when Snoke tells Ren there has been an awakening in the Force and has he felt it and Ren says he has.  So not necessarily that Ren recognizes her because he has seen her before but more he recognizes her as the one who has caused that feeling of the Force awakening.  (The tweet also implies that the line was in the movie...so presumably it originally was but got cut.)

Also, since people are speculating about Ren being the one leaving Rey on Jakuu and things that are in the book vs. the movie, there is one bit in the book in Rey's lightsaber/vision sequence that if its in the movie is so quick its missed:

Then behind her, another voice.

That voice.

"Stay here.  I'll come back for you."

She whirled, glazed eyes desperately scanning the dark gaps between the slender trees, trying to penetrate the darkness.

"Where are you?" She started running toward the voice.

"I'll come back, sweetheart.  I promise."

I know the author added things that weren't in the script but they seemed to be in places where it doesn't interfere with things that might come to matter down the line (such as how Poe survived and got off Jakuu).  So I don't see the sweetheart line being made up for the book and have to assume it was in the script he worked with.  If it turns out not to be in the movie, I guess it was also cut to probably keep things vague about Rey's past.  But the use of the word "sweetheart" doesn't bring to mind Ren.  My first thought was of a mother...but it could be a father.

As for what comes next in VIII, I have no idea but I have hopes.  I hope they reveal Rey's parentage because I do not want that dragged out any longer.  (I don't care whose child she is so long as its not Leia and Han.)  I hope we get more scenes on Skellig Michael because it is my new favorite location.  And I hope there are a few more scenes with Luke and that he is awesome and useful and that he doesn't die.  I hope Leia doesn't die either (at least until IX when she and Ren can have a Vader/Luke/ROTJ last moment).   And I hope there are some adorable R2D2 and BB-8 moments.  

[kuenjato]

Hopes for E VIII -- just randomly:

No more Big, Bad, Superweapon. Goes for XI as well. It was OK in reestablishing SW, but I'd like the threat to be more personal. They've certainly set it up to go that way.

I'd like a deeper explanation to the force, which could tie into the underlying conflict (Ren's redemption, dealing with Snoke). TFA bent over backwards to allude that Rey is Luke's daughter; they might as well continue that thread, otherwise it'll all feel like a red herring, and wouldn't be all that appropriate for the style they are pursuing.

I'd like some more exotic locales -- like Cloud City, or the astroid sequence -- and shift somewhat away from the desert/jungle/ice world motif. 

Poe and Finn go off on some buddy adventure in the beginning, or work together in a big battle sequence like we saw in Episode V. Both actors are excellent, and mining friendship as a theme (like it was with Luke/Han) would be cool. No love triangle this time around, please. I'd be fine with a romance between Rey and Finn, though I get the feeling, with how TFA ended, that they won't be meeting up again until the last third of the film.

I'd like them to phase out Leia -- and according to rumors, Disney probably would like to, as well -- but she's pretty integral to the Ben Solo story, so I expect her to have some screen time in at least VIII. Really, I'd like these three films to gradually shift from the legacy characters to the new ones--they can certainly hold up on their own.

Luke vs. Snoke in the climax? Perhaps over the fate of Rey? Some force fighting that doesn't involve twirling around with lightsabers like in the prequels.

More of the Knights of Ren... have them be a credible threat.

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Honestly, and I know this is bad, but I have zero idea who Issac is. And that might contribute to my ambivalence to the character.  But Poe really is a hang on at this point. 

I dug Poe. I haven't had any exposure to Issac either, but he was probably my favorite secondary character in the flick. The first scene that I felt really hit a true OT note was his and Finn's escape from the Star Destroyer in the Tie Fighter. After that, I was like cool, they get it. That's Star Wars. 

I also like that Poe is an extremely effective character without Force powers. Just an old-fashioned ace pilot.

[Rhom]

- The force was pretty strong in the Kenobi family. After all, he did defeat Anakin pretty handily.

Well... he did have the high ground. 

[The One And Only]

My hope for Episode VIII is that it goes much more into the force related topics and less into x-wing stuff.