Star Wars Episode 8 - What comes next? (Episode 7 Spoilers)

[Jace, Extat]

Not defending someone questioning the editing to that degree here (I thought it was fine except for the janky 'gotta save Rey!' end of the second act) Cowboy, but you've got a kind of unbelievable erection for this movie. It was good, anyone with a soul liked it, but it wasn't The Godfather II. It wasn't even The Godfather. Or Empire. Or A New Hope... And it never really hit the highs of Jedi, while having plenty of muck.

It was good, everything we needed and generous portions more, but there's fault to be had with the film.

[Relic]

52 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 I actually believe that it is worse than that. I personally believe this person probably went to see the movie and loved it. Now he is parroting the hipster automatic response of hating everything for no real reason. Calling this movie poor in the editing department, or even the writing assures me that the opinion is from someone who doesn't understand making films. 

Even if this were true, and you have no way of knowing if it is, he still has the right to voice his opinion without your adolescent attacks. 

[Howdyphillip]

4 hours ago, RumHam said:

 

Relic, 

 Give an opinion, and I will gladly discuss the merits of it with you. Just as I did for this other person. If you don't have an opinion of your own, I would say that the only personal attacks here are coming from you.

[Slurktan]

23 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

Relic, 

 Give an opinion, and I will gladly discuss the merits of it with you. Just as I did for this other person. If you don't have an opinion of your own, I would say that the only personal attacks here are coming from you.

You didn't discuss the merits, you made a blanket statement stating that you are 100% absolutely right and he is wrong without actually saying anything of importance pretty much like you do in every thread.  I'll make a similar statement to you: I liked Force Awakens but if you thought the editing was actually tight then you shouldn't ever criticize a movie again because you are clearly a moron,  In essence I commented like an 8 year old child, just like you,

[Howdyphillip]

1 minute ago, Slurktan said:

You didn't discuss the merits, you made a blanket statement stating that you are 100% absolutely right and he is wrong without actually saying anything of importance pretty much like you do in every thread.  I'll make a similar statement to you: I liked Force Awakens but if you thought the editing was actually tight then you shouldn't ever criticize a movie again because you are clearly a moron,  In essence I commented like an 8 year old child, just like you,

All right genius, I'll bite. You have to put on kid gloves however, because obviously I am feeble minded.. 

 Where did you have issues with the editing in this movie. Can you name some specific examples? Was there ever a place in the movie that was interrupted without a narrative conclusion? Was there any shot selections that seemed out of place? Was the audio hard to hear in places? Did the shots themselves seem to focus on things outside of the action or story? 

 These are all things one would think of when referring to the editing of a movie. However, there are some people who falsely acquaint editing with writing. I could speak for days about the writing of this movie, but right now, it is the editing in question, and I so look forward to being enlightened.   

 Since I am a moron, I probably missed all of this the four times that I went to see this movie in the theatres (so far). Could you please illuminate my intellect with your profound wisdom? 

 

[RumHam]

13 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

However, there are some people who falsely acquaint editing with writing

I don't think that's what is happening. The dude was just suggesting that they had to edit around the script problems. So the editing quirks would be a result of the iffy writing, not the same thing. 

Again, not that I agree.

I did read one theory that some scenes involving Rey's identity were cut/altered to make it less obvious. According to this theory that is why Maz's later scenes at the rebel resistance base with the handing off of the Lightsaber were cut. But that's just a theory mostly based off those early synopsis leaks. 

[Howdyphillip]

1 minute ago, RumHam said:

I don't think that's what is happening. The dude was just suggesting that they had to edit around the script problems. So the editing quirks would be a result of the iffy writing, not the same thing. 

Again, not that I agree.

I did read one theory that some scenes involving Rey's identity were cut/altered to make it less obvious. According to this theory that is why Maz's later scenes at the rebel base with the handing off of the Lightsaber were cut. But that's just a theory mostly based off those early synopsis leaks. 

 There were a lot of things cut from the movie from the original script. It was supposed to open with Luke's hand grasping the lightsaber floating through space. From what I understand, that was in play until the very end of things. 

 I don't think it was poor editing to leave the story with a bit more mystery. I think it was a solid decision.
 

[Kindly Old Man]

19 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

However, there are some people who falsely acquaint editing with writing.

One would hope the editing and writing are at least on a first name basis with each other

[Bonesy]

Chewie giving Leia the cold shoulder (american style) remains the only thing that annoys the shit out of me that is PROBABLY a result of editing.

[Howdyphillip]

Just now, Bonesy said:

Chewie giving Leia the cold shoulder (american style) remains the only thing that annoys the shit out of me that is PROBABLY a result of editing.

I can agree there... The only writing choice I didn't like was R2 coming awake at the opportune time. 

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, Howdyphillip said:

I can agree there... The only writing choice I didn't like was R2 coming awake at the opportune time. 

Yes, that was pretty lame. There may well have been a scene explaining it better that was cut. I seem to recall the official explanation is that after Luke left (without him? why?) he finally shut down to process all the data he'd collected in X years of uninterrupted activity, and BB-8's presence with the map fragment reactivated him.

That just made me think, I hope Luke still has his classic X-Wing. I'd love to see it fighting alongside the new models, and the whole idea of Luke fighting spaceship battles seems to have been neglected since the original movie. Dude killed the Death Star without his targeting computer. You'd think there would be situations where he'd be more useful in an X-Wing than on the ground with his Lightsaber. 

[Jace, Extat]

Feels like there's about five minutes of cut content between the firing of the lasersungun and Kylo Ren arriving at the cantinatemple. We see him watch the laser from the bridge of the Star Destroyer, we cut to the hero reaction shots, and about ten seconds later the First Order is attacking.

 

[Bonesy]

I think they almost have to.

I mean the prequels and The Clone Wars established that Kenobi, Anakin, and even Plo-Koon rocked out in a fighter on the regular.

Maybe Luke's too valuable to risk that way now though.

[Relic]

8 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

Relic, 

 Give an opinion, and I will gladly discuss the merits of it with you. Just as I did for this other person. If you don't have an opinion of your own, I would say that the only personal attacks here are coming from you.

Huh? What? You basically told someone that their opinion was worthless and that they had no clue what they were talking about. In a dickish manner. And you do this often. It sucks. 

 

[Maia]

6 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

 There were a lot of things cut from the movie from the original script. It was supposed to open with Luke's hand grasping the lightsaber floating through space. From what I understand, that was in play until the very end of things. 

But how could that have been possible? Wasn't Bespin floating within the atmosphere of a planet? Shouldn't the hand with the saber  just fall down to whatever was below (like the rest of Luke almost did) rather than somehow getting catapulted into space? I am glad that they didn't use it, since this idea was really stupid, IMHO.

I kinda regret that apparently they have cut a scene of Maz actively using the Force, though. I would have liked to see a Force user who didn't belong to any of the iconic traditions and managed not to fall to the Dark Side despite not being a selfless, emotionless ascetic/hermit. Hope to see more of her in the sequels, in fact, as I don't mind her CGI, even though I would have preferred the actress in prosthetics + LOTR figure shrinking  magic. 

And maybe she'll tutor Finn a bit? After thinking about it, I kinda prefer Rey as Luke's daughter,  but I'd also  like somebody without famous bloodline to become a Jedi. And I'd  hate it if the new trilogy ended with Rey being the last Jedi (yet again). There are a few moments in the film that could be interpreted as hints of his Force sensitivity, so...

I also really don't want to see Lando or any other additional cameos from the OT. Let's see the new characters given enough space to grow and satisfying roles/send-offs to Luke and Leia instead. TFA was _too_ crowded.

Anakin's ghost with Vader mannerisms and gravitas, but without the evil could have been interesting in concept and  provided unique insight, particularly if he appeared incognito to somebody who didn't recognize him but... Hayden Christiansen. Nope, won't work. Sigh. I am still hoping that they somehow incorporate the idea of visiting Vader's castle/lair in the future films, though.

[HexMachina]

4 minutes ago, Maia said:

But how could that have been possible? Wasn't Bespin floating within the atmosphere of a planet? Shouldn't the hand with the saber  just fall down to whatever was below (like the rest of Luke almost did) rather than somehow getting catapulted into space? I am glad that they didn't use it, since this idea was really stupid, IMHO.

I kinda regret that apparently they have cut a scene of Maz actively using the Force, though. I would have liked to see a Force user who didn't belong to any of the iconic traditions and managed not to fall to the Dark Side despite not being a selfless, emotionless ascetic/hermit. Hope to see more of her in the sequels, in fact, as I don't mind her CGI, even though I would have preferred the actress in prosthetics + LOTR figure shrinking  magic. 

And maybe she'll tutor Finn a bit? After thinking about it, I kinda prefer Rey as Luke's daughter,  but I'd also  like somebody without famous bloodline to become a Jedi. And I'd  hate it if the new trilogy ended with Rey being the last Jedi (yet again). There are a few moments in the film that could be interpreted as hints of his Force sensitivity, so...

I also really don't want to see Lando or any other additional cameos from the OT. Let's see the new characters given enough space to grow and satisfying roles/send-offs to Luke and Leia instead. TFA was _too_ crowded.

Anakin's ghost with Vader mannerisms and gravitas, but without the evil could have been interesting in concept and  provided unique insight, particularly if he appeared incognito to somebody who didn't recognize him but... Hayden Christiansen. Nope, won't work. Sigh. I am still hoping that they somehow incorporate the idea of visiting Vader's castle/lair in the future films, though.

Where did you read about the Maz scene? I hadn't heard that before, it's interesting. Only thing I had heard was that Maz was supposed to be shown accompanying the First Order back to base, and (I think) handing Luke's lightsaber to Leia (I think this was actually in a trailer?) Also, Maz using the force would make sense. Doesn't she even say "...but I know the force" or something?

[Maia]

12 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Where did you read about the Maz scene?

I don't really remember, but they talk about it here, for instance.

http://collider.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-deleted-scenes-maz-snowspeeder-rathtar/

The description I have seen included more detail and explained why Finn inexplicably lost the blaster rifle gifted to him by Han in the movie and had to use the lightsaber. Since this info is less well known than I have assumed, I'm spoilering it:

Spoiler

Maz needed time to concentrate in order to bring the ceiling down with the Force, so she told Han to distract the pursuing Stormtroopers. And he did it by pretending to betray Finn to them, which resulted in Finn getting disarmed. It turned out that Han recognized his clothing and boots as a Stormtrooper uniform from the start.

 

 

[Howdyphillip]

On 1/24/2016 at 3:43 AM, Davrum said:

It's very possible the new one has script problems, like TFA did, but this time they're not going to rush it, like they did with TFA, so they don't have to hack the thing to pieces in post and attempt to assemble something half decent in the editing room, like they did with TFA resulting in a story with some fine set pieces but an overall narrative suffering from half-arsed connective tissue.

 

5 hours ago, Relic said:

Huh? What? You basically told someone that their opinion was worthless and that they had no clue what they were talking about. In a dickish manner. And you do this often. It sucks. 

 

The above was the quote in question. As there is absolutely no basis in it, I was quite dismissive. First of all, the movie wasn't "rushed", it was delayed in order to get things right, just as episode 8 just was, only with TFA it was done far earlier. Secondly, the editing was questioned without providing any examples of why this poster felt like it was "half arsed". I also remember reading a post from this person talking about how much they loved the movie immediately after they had seen it. Without any facts backing up these statements about bad editing, I personally do hold that kind of opinion to be worthless.

 These are the subjects that I talked about. Again, if you have any input to the actual conversation, please add. You are a smart guy with valid perspective of things. I'd love to discuss actual topics here with you rather than all of these personal attacks.   

[Corvinus85]

50 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 

The above was the quote in question. As there is absolutely no basis in it, I was quite dismissive. First of all, the movie wasn't "rushed", it was delayed in order to get things right, just as episode 8 just was, only with TFA it was done far earlier. Secondly, the editing was questioned without providing any examples of why this poster felt like it was "half arsed". I also remember reading a post from this person talking about how much they loved the movie immediately after they had seen it. Without any facts backing up these statements about bad editing, I personally do hold that kind of opinion to be worthless.

I would also like to add to your point that TFA received an Oscar nor for film editing, so any opinion questioning the editing quality needs to provide some compelling reasoning.