Wyman Manderly vs Walder Frey

[Wavey Sauce]

Frey is far from badass. Is more of a coward then anything. Comes from a long line of cowards, who always stay in their castle and never join into any causes. For sure earned the alias "the late Walder Frey"

 

Manderly is awesome tho

[Lord Fauntleroy]

Walder is in no way badass.

Wyman "The High Man" Manderly feigned submission and saved his son, and then preceded to get righteous vengeance against the Boltons and some Freys in the form of the pies, poetic justice for what was done to his family and king. He is also getting Rickon back which will be awesome.

[Wavey Sauce]

 

He killed traitors to the realm (Freys were still subjects). At least technically, even if the Freys were just feigning it. You see, morality in Westeros is skewed, it is a mortal sin to kill a guest, but is not to kill it after a few footsteps out of your home.

 

 

The baking, though, may have been a bit too much, but there is nothing that really tells baking relatives is wrong (in fact, we get Rat Cook that says it is nothing like guest right).

 

If Wyman walks out alive from his case of throat cut…

 

On a note, does guest right involves not killing other guests of your host?

You do have to remember that it is not a fact that he did put them into pies. Yes its strongly hinted, and is very likely but its not 100% or has been confirmed

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Frey is far from badass. Is more of a coward then anything.

Didnt he join Robb when Robb was alone facing the Crown. At the time Robb marched South Renly, Stannis and Balon had not rebelled. Walder joined against him against, potentially, the rest of Westeros

Seems to me that Robb did not win a single battle without the Freys help.

 

Comes from a long line of cowards, who always stay in their castle and never join into any causes.

Can you back this up? No, of course not.

Forest Frey and his men seemed pretty involved in the Dance of the Dragons while the Starks sat it out waiting till it was all over before making an appearance.

 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

That's disgusting. 

 

And be I love be your Avi. Is that Cersei and JonCon trying to kiss Rhaegar under mistletoe? 

yep.

[Wavey Sauce]

Didnt he join Robb when Robb was alone facing the Crown. At the time Robb marched South Renly, Stannis and Balon had not rebelled. Walder joined against him against, potentially, the rest of Westeros

Seems to me that Robb did not win a single battle without the Freys help.

Can you back this up? No, of course not.

Forest Frey and his men seemed pretty involved in the Dance of the Dragons while the Starks sat it out waiting till it was all over before making an appearance.

 

He never really contributed crap. Just like the same BS he pulled on the trident, once the battle was over. The Freys have a long history of doing this. Actually in the TV show history and lore Cat Stark talks about their whole past which is pretty funny. (it is all stuff that was their past in the books)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs4KxxkxIRE

[thelittledragonthatcould]

He never really contributed crap.

Of course he did. Robb did not win single battle without Freys by his side. Walder contributed 4,000 men, more than any of his Northern vassals.

Just like the same BS he pulled on the trident, once the battle was over.

No, actually nothing like that.

 

The Freys have a long history of doing this

No, they don't. They fought in the Dance of the Dragons and the fought in Aegons Conquest. One time does not equal a long history.

Actually in the TV show history and lore Cat Stark talks about their whole past which is pretty funny. (it is all stuff that was their past in the books)

This belongs in the TV forum, not the book forum.  Though this does explain your other posts. The TV show is fantastic but this is the wrong forum for talking about that, it helps if you have read the books if you want to post here.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

Who was more badass?

Walder broke guest rights but Manderly paid him back in kind. Both use treachery against their rulers. Both are the second most powerful Lords in their respective kingdoms. Manderly gave an awesome speech.But Walder was funny as hell.Both are morally grey.

So who do you like more?

They both are guilty of taboo.  Guest Rights for Walder.  Cannibalism for Wayman, and perhaps guest rights too.  Even so, Walder is more interesting and his lines and his humor are the best in the books.  I can't help but like Walder, even if he broke guest rights against the Starks.

[Light a wight tonight]

Technically he may not be. But eventually he killed people who he just treated as guests and took it too far by baking them into cakes and served it to their kin.

The "guests" were richly deserving of what they got based on their arrogant, un-guestlike bahavior while under Manderly's roof. The Freys had murdered Manderly's son while he was a guest at the Twins and then they come to White Harbor and act like the lords of creation and treat the Manderleys as a lower species of animal. 

Payback time!

[Whitering]

I thought Manderly brought a small fraction of his troops, and mostly his older knights and men. Whenever Theon sees them they seem to be old dudes, not like old, old, but old and gnarly.

He might have two thousand men with him, I guess, but he's hiring any man that wants to hold a spear in White Harbour. Frey is tricky with no morals, Wyman is tricky with northern old god morals, which are harsh and alien to us, but fine for the North.

[Nittanian]

I thought Manderly brought a small fraction of his troops, and mostly his older knights and men. Whenever Theon sees them they seem to be old dudes, not like old, old, but old and gnarly.

Wyman brings three hundred to Winterfell. ADWD, A Ghost in Winterfell

Aenys Frey: "I do not claim Lord Wyman does the deeds himself. He brought three hundred men with him. A hundred knights. Any of them might have-"

One of the White Harbor knights in "ADWD, Theon I" is aged, but I don't recall the ages of other Manderly men.

a hard-faced greybeard whose bloodstained surcoat showed three silvery mermaids upon a violet field.

TWOW, Theon I

Theon: "It was Whoresbane Umber who had the men, inside the castle. I saw them too. Old men, every one. Mors took the green boys and Hother took the greybeards."

[Whitering]

But in Davos' walking around chapter, he hears that if you can hold a spear, you can get a job basically. I don't know if one hundred knights are most of his knights or not. Still, it could easily be 300 men with no wives or children. And 300 men does not sound like a large part of his army.

[El Guapo]

They both are guilty of taboo.  Guest Rights for Walder.  Cannibalism for Wayman, and perhaps guest rights too.  Even so, Walder is more interesting and his lines and his humor are the best in the books.  I can't help but like Walder, even if he broke guest rights against the Starks.

Agreed. Walder Frey is great.

[Targaryen Restoration]

Frey is far from badass. Is more of a coward then anything. Comes from a long line of cowards, who always stay in their castle and never join into any causes. For sure earned the alias "the late Walder Frey"

 

Manderly is awesome tho

False.  That sounds like you're biased against the Freys to me.  Stevron Frey fought bravely for Robb's cause.  I don't see in the text where the Freys have had long lines of cowards throughout the generations.  The Freys are no better, no worse than any other family.  Same goes for the Starks.  If there is a coward in this discussion, it is Wayman Manderly.  The fat man is a sick, sick maneater.  He is no better than the Rat Cook in the story. 

[Wavey Sauce]

Of course he did. Robb did not win single battle without Freys by his side. Walder contributed 4,000 men, more than any of his Northern vassals.

No, actually nothing like that.

No, they don't. They fought in the Dance of the Dragons and the fought in Aegons Conquest. One time does not equal a long history.

This belongs in the TV forum, not the book forum.  Though this does explain your other posts. The TV show is fantastic but this is the wrong forum for talking about that, it helps if you have read the books if you want to post here.

No it doesnt belong in the TV forum. Not sure what is difficult about that, Yes it is cat from the TV show, but the history she speaks of is the history of that house. And 1 time? Are you kidding me lmao???? Need to go recheck the Frey history, because numerous Freys always did the same BS, sitting things out from the safety of their castle

[Curled Finger]

Old Creepy Walder is just ---ick.  He's gross and crude and so ick.  Wyman is great.   He's smart and cunning and loyal to the end.   I think if I had to sit next to one of them for a long time on a train or plane I would sit in the aisle next to Manderly.   I can't even imagine having a conversation with Walder.   Or wanting to for that matter.   Ick. 

[SeanF]

Who was more badass?

Walder broke guest rights but Manderly paid him back in kind. Both use treachery against their rulers. Both are the second most powerful Lords in their respective kingdoms. Manderly gave an awesome speech.But Walder was funny as hell.Both are morally grey.

So who do you like more?

Manderly's revenge is definitely the more amuthing of the two.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

 

No it doesnt belong in the TV forum.

Sure it does, that video may be canon for the TV universe but it is not for the book universe.

 

Not sure what is difficult about that, Yes it is cat from the TV show, but the history she speaks of is the history of that house.

Why not use evidence from the books to back this claim up. If you think that video for the TV is evidence then you must believe that Stannis sacrificed his daughter. Did Stannis sacrifice his daughter in the books?

 

And 1 time? Are you kidding me lmao????

Why is this your usual response? Would it not be easier to try and use evidence or common sense rather than resort to constantly type 'lmao'?

Need to go recheck the Frey history, because numerous Freys always did the same BS, sitting things out from the safety of their castle

Name them. Name these other Freys that sat back in their castle. Easier yet, name the wars that these other Freys sat out of?

Here, I will back up my claims with evidence from the books rather than 'lmao'.

Aegons Conquest:

One by one, the lords of the Trident renounced Harren and declared for Aegon the Dragon. Blackwoods, Mallisters, Vances, Brackens, Pipers, Freys, Strongs...summoning their levies, they descended on Harrenhal.

Dance of the Dragons:

There were many such supporters in the riverlands, who rose in their thousands and joined the prince's host in Rhaenyra's name. Notable amongst them was the puissant knight, Lord Forrest Frey

Blackfyre Rebellion: If the Freys always sat out wars then why were the Blackfyres so concernend with winning them to their side?

"Just do your part as promised, and let me concern myself with that. Once we have Butterwell's gold and the swords of House Frey, Harrenhal will follow, then the Brackens. Otho knows he cannot hope to stand…"

 

Walder Frey is the only known Frey to sit out a war. And that was just one war as the Freys were heavily involved in the War of the Five Kings. Robb Stark did not win a single victory without Frey support. NOT ONE!

 

 

[khal drogon]

 

Manderly's revenge is definitely the more amuthing of the two.

Yeah.

[the Greenleif Stark]

Walder Frey is a POS, nothing he did or has done is badass. He had people over for a wedding and murdered all his guest, nothing badass about that, nothing cunning, just took advantage of people assuming they'd be safe under guest rights.

Manderly was def way more badass and cunning. I mean he sent a tarred head of "Davos" to KL to get his son back, treats with Freys(who actively killed members of his house and his King) in his home like a perfect gentleman, then kills them when they leave and are off his land, then bakes them into a pie and feeds them to the Dbags involved in the killing of members of his house and King. Now that's some revenge. The North remembers