khal drogon Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Who was more badass?Walder broke guest rights but Manderly paid him back in kind. Both use treachery against their rulers. Both are the second most powerful Lords in their respective kingdoms. Manderly gave an awesome speech.But Walder was funny as hell.Both are morally grey.So who do you like more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Manderly never broke no guest right. He gave the Freys a parting gift and sent them on their way, and by doing so his role as host was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Syster Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Wyman is a bit unhinged, but I'd take him over Frey any day. At least the Freys he killed were absolutely in on the Red Wedding and lying through their teeth. If I had the option, I'd steer clear of both. Cooking people into pies and dragging the strength of your whole house on a suicidal infiltration mission isn't great either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Manderly never broke no guest right. He gave the Freys a parting gift and sent them on their way, and by doing so his role as host was over. Technically he may not be. But eventually he killed people who he just treated as guests and took it too far by baking them into cakes and served it to their kin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Technically he may not be. But eventually he killed people who he just treated as guests and took it too far by baking them into cakes and served it to their kin.Wyman avenged his son and protected his daughters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edd tollett:( Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Technically he may not be. But eventually he killed people who he just treated as guests and took it too far by baking them into cakes and served it to their kin.remember, the rat cook was not punished for killing the Andal kings son, nor for baking him in a cake and feeding him to the king. He was punished for breaking guest rights, which Manderly was carful not to do. That may be a technicality but atleast in the eyes of the Old gods and the North, it's not taking it too far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Technically he may not be. But eventually he killed people who he just treated as guests and took it too far by baking them into cakes and served it to their kin.He killed traitors to the realm (Freys were still subjects). At least technically, even if the Freys were just feigning it. You see, morality in Westeros is skewed, it is a mortal sin to kill a guest, but is not to kill it after a few footsteps out of your home.The baking, though, may have been a bit too much, but there is nothing that really tells baking relatives is wrong (in fact, we get Rat Cook that says it is nothing like guest right).If Wyman walks out alive from his case of throat cut…On a note, does guest right involves not killing other guests of your host? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 We all know guest rights is a farce. Anyway I'll edit my OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Ancalagon Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Yes, the other guests cant either. As we learned during Dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden-Mackenzie Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Wyman is a bit unhinged, but I'd take him over Frey any day. At least the Freys he killed were absolutely in on the Red Wedding and lying through their teeth. If I had the option, I'd steer clear of both. Cooking people into pies and dragging the strength of your whole house on a suicidal infiltration mission isn't great either.We don't really know if it is a suicide mission yet. Sure, things certainly aren't looking great for Wyman, and his men are in a pretty precarious position, but until we actually have TWOW we cannot say for certain all the White Harbor men are doomed. Also, I highly doubt he brought the entire strength of his house. With Stannis in the North, the various houses will need to be heavily garrisoned, and this is especially true for White Harbor. I would think Wyman brought exactly as many men as he needed in order to keep up appearances.As far as Wyman vs. Walder, I would want Wyman on my side over Walder any day. Walder is perhaps the most easily offended Lord in Westeros, anything you do will be a slight in his eyes. He has no loyalty except to himself (by which I mean only himself, not including his family) and is willing to change allegiance with the winds, and has no respect for customs such as guest right, which is completely not a farce. Wyman on the other hand is one of the most loyal Lords we have seen, he seems to be quite capable, although he hides behind his Lord Too Fat to Sit a Horse persona, and his willing to do anything to protect his loved ones. Also, he will bring booze and snacks to any get together to which he is invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Technically he may not be. But eventually he killed people who he just treated as guests and took it too far by baking them into cakes and served it to their kin.He gave them guest gifts. That means his duty as host is over and he can pretty much do whatever he wants. He's broken no laws of hospitality and as far as baking the Freys into a pie, once I got over the shock, I was in awe that he'd dare do something like that. Don't mess with Lord Wyman. The North remembers and the mummers farce is done for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 We all know guest rights is a farce. Anyway I'll edit my OP.Guest right is probably the most sacred custom in the North. Breaking it is the ONLY thing the old gods won't forgive and Walder Frey will get what's coming to him. Baking the Freys into pies is just fine and dandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Guest right is probably the most sacred custom in the North. Breaking it is the ONLY thing the old gods won't forgive and Walder Frey will get what's coming to him. Baking the Freys into pies is just fine and dandy.Isn't it a custom of the Faith of Seven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 Delete.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Guest right is probably the most sacred custom in the North. Breaking it is the ONLY thing the old gods won't forgive and Walder Frey will get what's coming to him. Baking the Freys into pies is just fine and dandy.That and Kinslaying.One notable custom that the Northmen hold dearer than any other is guest right, the tradition of hospitality by which a man may offer no harm to a guest beneath his roof, nor a guest to his host. The Andals held to something like it as well, but it looms less large in southron minds. In his text Justice and Injustice in the North: Judgments of Three Stark Lords, Maester Egbert notes that crimes in the North in which guest right was violated were rare but were invariably treated as harshly as the direst of treasons. Only kinslaying is deemed as sinful as the violations of these laws of hospitality.Walder Frey will die of old age before the North can get retribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I hope Manderly gets to eat Walder Frey. Or, at least, sit on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I hope Manderly gets to eat Walder Frey.That's disgusting. And be I love be your Avi. Is that Cersei and JonCon trying to kiss Rhaegar under mistletoe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 He gave them guest gifts. That means his duty as host is over and he can pretty much do whatever he wants. He's broken no laws of hospitality and as far as baking the Freys into a pie, once I got over the shock, I was in awe that he'd dare do something like that. Don't mess with Lord Wyman. The North remembers and the mummers farce is done for real. Actually, the parting gifts weren't even essential. A simple "goodbye, be on your way" would have been enough. The guest right doesn't imply lifelong protection, just until the guest leaves.Lord Wyman's way just had more flair.Isn't it a custom of the Faith of Seven?Them, too, considering how the sparrows in King's Landing and the lords of the Vale were appalled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 They're both sub-human scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 They're both sub-human scum.Manderly is awesome and just a magnificent SOB. I hope he keeps it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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