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Is the end of ASOIAF a little too obvious?


Mormont'sRaven

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R + J = L. 

Dany is Azor Ahai reborn. 

These things are pretty obvious if you've read the books closely and are also keeping track of the television show. Anyone care to discuss what other possibilities are? Dany clearly has to help fight The Others along with her dragons. And Jon Snow will be there, of course, resurrected by Melisandre. One of them will die since GRRM likes bittersweet endings. The dragons will all likely die fighting The Others as well. 

Thoughts?

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there are many things we already know. 

cersei will die. (Cersei will win the trial.)

Her three children will die. 

LF will die.

Robert strong will die. 

ramsey Snow will die. 

Aegon will fail. (plus Dorne)

a team of Jon, Dany, Arya, Bran, Tyrion will save the world

Dany will claim a lot of dothriki riders to invade westeros

etc. 

Honestly I am kind of losing my interest for the final two books. 

I am thinking GRRM had that feeling too so he is very slow on it. 

 

 

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Dany is Azor Ahai reborn. 

 

This one is certainly not obvious. There are two characters who arguably fit well with this. Jon and Dany. Maybe even at the end of the story we may not know who is Azor Ahai and who is the Prince that was Promised. Just that they both helped defeat the whitewalkers.

http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-azor-ahai-prophecy/

But yeah Jon and Dany are the only two possiblites for that one from the characters we have seen.

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R + J = L. 

1.Dany is Azor Ahai reborn. 

These things are pretty obvious if you've read the books closely and are also keeping track of the television show. Anyone care to discuss what other possibilities are? 2. Dany clearly has to help fight The Others along with her dragons. 3. And Jon Snow will be there, of course, resurrected by Melisandre. 4.  One of them will die since GRRM likes bittersweet endings. The dragons will all likely die fighting The Others as well. 

Thoughts?

1. How is it obvious that Dany is AAR? The identity of AAR is one of the most debated things by this community. There are many people that fit the criteria for AAR and if someone is missing some requirements for AAR THERE RE TWO MORE BOOKS. Also bringing up the show... at this point I'm convinced that the majority of Daenerys fans are show-onlys.

2. No. It's not clear at all. The way you're describing it here suggests a final battle Others vs Humans. I personally believe that will not happen. I personally believe that the Others are not evil and the final battle will be North vs South, Stark vs Targaryen, you know... Ice vs Fire.

3. Or maybe he's not dead, or maybe he'll be resurrected by the Others, or maybe by Bran/BR. Again, not clear at all.

4. This statement assumes all fans like both Jon and Dany, while in reality the majority of Jon fans dislike Dany and vice versa. At most, one of them dying would be bittersweet only for some people. Also, GRRM's idea of bittersweet is LOTR's ending...

 

there are many things we already know. 

cersei will die. (Cersei will win the trial.)

Her three children will die. 

LF will die.

Robert strong will die. 

ramsey Snow will die. 

Aegon will fail. (plus Dorne)

a team of Jon, Dany, Arya, Bran, Tyrion will save the world

Dany will claim a lot of dothriki riders to invade westeros

etc. 

Honestly I am kind of losing my interest for the final two books. 

I am thinking GRRM had that feeling too so he is very slow on it. 

 

 

How do we know this???

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Considering you're asking this on a multi-forum website dedicated to the series that is NOT lacking in theories, your assumption that the ending is "too obvious" is false.  There are LOTS of people on these forums that DON'T agree with R+L=J, let alone everything you followed with.  While I do subscribe to R+L=J, it's certainly going to be a LOT more complicated than someone (Howland?) telling the story and everyone (EVERYONE) saying "Oh, OK, that makes sense - Long Live King Jon!" 

Basically, I disagree on your assumption that the ending is obvious.  Nothing is obvious in these books.  Even the apparent obviousness of Robert Strong=Gregor Clegane still has the possibility (limited though it may be) to be a big, fat red herring!  There are a million ways this can end.  And chances are, the "most obvious" is also the least likely to happen.

 

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1. "Obvious" and "GRRM" are two words that should never be used in the same sentence.

2. Valar Morghulis

3. It's a Song of Ice and Fire, not a Song of Ice Versus Fire

4. Don't expect there to be an AA or PtwP reborn. The original tales are stuff of myth and legend, so it probably didn't happen that way at all. Don't expect someone to create a magic sword by thrusting it through someone's heart. Don't expect to see heavenly light shining down on the chosen one. Don't even expect the "hero" to be a good guy. If the Others are defeated, it could very well be at the hands of Ramsey Bolton.

5. By the end of Winds, Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, Bran, Sansa, LF and Jorah could all be dead. See point #2.

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There are LOTS of people on these forums that DON'T agree with R+L=J, let alone everything you followed with.  While I do subscribe to R+L=J, it's certainly going to be a LOT more complicated than someone (Howland?) telling the story and everyone (EVERYONE) saying "Oh, OK, that makes sense - Long Live King Jon!" 

"LOTS" in all capitals overestimates the amount of people that don't believe R+L=J. Also why do people think it's important for the Westerosi to find out about R+L=J? The main point of RLJ is Jon being the Song of Ice and Fire. Compared to that, potentially having a claim on the IT is irrelevant. Who cares if no one in Westeros believes it?

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5. By the end of Winds, Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Cersei, Jaime, Brienne, Bran, Sansa, LF and Jorah could all be dead. See point #2.

Comeplete bullshit, at least for the bolded ones. Dany, Tyrion and the Starks have so much plot armor, that them dying anytime before the last third of ADOS is impossible. Jon has even more plot armor, considering he's already died and Bran will 100% survive till the end.

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While I believe R+L=J and Dany is AA I think saying these things are obvious is incorrect. Likely & obvious are not synonymous. And even if these facts are true it doesn't make the conclusions of the book obvious bc these facts alone done mean anything. There are so many other things going on 2 facts alone couldn't possibly be what solves the issues. The Others are only one aspect of this series, arguably the most important, but still only one part. Even if everything you said does happen, it still doesn't make everything else obvious. So Dany & Jon beat the Others. Then what? What Bloodraven & Bran? What about Winterfell? What about the Iron Throne? What about Theon? What about Arya & Sansa? Etc? Singling out that we know what may happen to two characters & one storyline (even if what you say is true & obvious) doesn't make then ending of the book obvious.

@purple-eyes how do we know all of this stuff? None of this stuff has been confirmed. We may have vague prophecies about some of them, but there's no way we actually know for sure.

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1. How is it obvious that Dany is AAR? The identity of AAR is one of the most debated things by this community. There are many people that fit the criteria for AAR and if someone is missing some requirements for AAR THERE RE TWO MORE BOOKS. Also bringing up the show... at this point I'm convinced that the majority of Daenerys fans are show-onlys.

2. No. It's not clear at all. The way you're describing it here suggests a final battle Others vs Humans. I personally believe that will not happen. I personally believe that the Others are not evil and the final battle will be North vs South, Stark vs Targaryen, you know... Ice vs Fire.

3. Or maybe he's not dead, or maybe he'll be resurrected by the Others, or maybe by Bran/BR. Again, not clear at all.

4. This statement assumes all fans like both Jon and Dany, while in reality the majority of Jon fans dislike Dany and vice versa. At most, one of them dying would be bittersweet only for some people. Also, GRRM's idea of bittersweet is LOTR's ending...

 

How do we know this???

ok, a team of at least them. Maybe other people too. 

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1. How is it obvious that Dany is AAR? The identity of AAR is one of the most debated things by this community. There are many people that fit the criteria for AAR and if someone is missing some requirements for AAR THERE RE TWO MORE BOOKS. Also bringing up the show... at this point I'm convinced that the majority of Daenerys fans are show-onlys.

2. No. It's not clear at all. The way you're describing it here suggests a final battle Others vs Humans. I personally believe that will not happen. I personally believe that the Others are not evil and the final battle will be North vs South, Stark vs Targaryen, you know... Ice vs Fire.

3. Or maybe he's not dead, or maybe he'll be resurrected by the Others, or maybe by Bran/BR. Again, not clear at all.

4. This statement assumes all fans like both Jon and Dany, while in reality the majority of Jon fans dislike Dany and vice versa. At most, one of them dying would be bittersweet only for some people. Also, GRRM's idea of bittersweet is LOTR's ending...

 

How do we know this???

we don't, but she does. 

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there are many things we already know.

cersei will die. (Cersei will win the trial.)

Her three children will die.

LF will die.

Robert strong will die.

ramsey Snow will die.

Aegon will fail. (plus Dorne)

a team of Jon, Dany, Arya, Bran, Tyrion will save the world

Dany will claim a lot of dothriki riders to invade westeros

etc.

Honestly I am kind of losing my interest for the final two books.

I am thinking GRRM had that feeling too so he is very slow on it.

 

 

We don't know any of that.

You will be more correct in saying "some people believe / want that this and that will happen".

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If something seems too obvious then it probably won't happen. I think R + L = J. Apart from that all bets are open as to what will happen. I'm not convinced Dany will team up with Jon at all. Although it certainly could happen I equally think they could go to war and am equally not convinced a battle with the others will be the final major event in the books.

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If something seems too obvious then it probably won't happen. I think R + L = J. Apart from that all bets are open as to what will happen. 

This is why I think GRRM's been teasing us with R + L = J. If it is true, there's gonna have to be some twist. Otherwise, the mother is probably Ashara Dayne. It's just far too "obvious" by now.

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This is why I think GRRM's been teasing us with R + L = J. If it is true, there's gonna have to be some twist. Otherwise, the mother is probably Ashara Dayne. It's just far too "obvious" by now.

Agreed, if it is R+L=J there has to be a massive twist to it…like Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna to create a child for a sacrifice, and Lyanna asked Ned to promise to kill the baby.

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