purple-eyes Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 He obviously loved her. She was a bastard of lord uller, a very powerful house in Dorne. Just like the situation of ramsey snow or Jon snow or edric storm.Doran seems to treat her as part of family too. They had four children together, all became bastards. Why did not he try to legitimize her and get married and make all their children legit?just because GRRM wanted all the eight girls to be "sand" bastards so he can call them as group of "sandsnake"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireAndBlood. Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 He couldn't legitimise her himself, she had to be legitimised by the king. Plus, they don't care about bastardy in Dorne, and Oberyn was not the ruling Prince(ss) in need of true born children to pass his titles on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Yeap, he just didn't care about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte. Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I think that it was just another representation of the fact that Dorne is a far more egalitarian society. They care much less about whether you are male or female, bastard or legitimised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I just think it's because this kind of thing is not important to the people in Dorne like it is to the people in the rest of Westeros. Being a bastard doesn't make you some lower class citizen in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 He couldn't legitimise her himself, she had to be legitimised by the king. Plus, they don't care about bastardy in Dorne, and Oberyn was not the ruling Prince(ss) in need of true born children to pass his titles on to.they do not care that much, but bastard is still thought as low in Dorne. Daemon Sand was rejected by Doran and Arianne said he is too low born to marry her. But she decided Darkstar is high born enough to marry her. and Darkstar is just a landed knight. While Daemon is the bastard of heir of Godgrace. But yeah, he surely did not want to deal with Robert. But when he went to KL, he should be able to legitimize them by Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 I just think it's because this kind of thing is not important to the people in Dorne like it is to the people in the rest of Westeros. Being a bastard doesn't make you some lower class citizen in Dorne.it made them lower class citizen, just not that low. Daemon Sand is an example. Elia Sand said so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neolaina Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 it made them lower class citizen, just not that low. Daemon Sand is an example. Elia Sand said so too. Fight against it all you want, the Dornish don't really care about bastardy, nor did Oberyn seem to worry too much about the status of his children or his paramour. It's simply not a very important issue for the Dornish.As for Doran and Arianne's points of view, I never held their reasoning re: Daemon to be their real reasoning. Both are shrewd and understand the political power behind marriage. Neither would waste such power on a person they already have firmly under their control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Fight against it all you want, the Dornish don't really care about bastardy, nor did Oberyn seem to worry too much about the status of his children or his paramour. It's simply not a very important issue for the Dornish.As for Doran and Arianne's points of view, I never held their reasoning re: Daemon to be their real reasoning. Both are shrewd and understand the political power behind marriage. Neither would waste such power on a person they already have firmly under their control. Arianne apparently decided a landed knight from a weaker house (dayne) is higher born than a bastard knight from a major house (Godgrace). Quentin also decided a daughter from a landed knight house is not high enough for his wife. I surely agree that in Dorne, people did not treat bastard that bad, but if you say people do not care, I think this is not true. They can not carry family name, can not inherit land, they are not good for noble marriages. which is why Oberyn can not marry her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Bastards are only legitimized when there is a pressing need. People like Ned and Oberyn would not think twice about asking the king for such a pointless boon. Bastards who are acknowledged are treated better than 99% of the realm and, depending whose child they are, likely many other nobles. Being bastards of Great Houses would put Jon and the Sand Snakes on a higher footing than many many trueborn nobles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 There is no legal need to legitimize Ellaria to marry them. Marriages with bastards are valid. Example Ser Walder Rivers - not only did he lawfully marry a trueborn noble Charlton, but his children, although trueborn, inherit his surname Rivers. I think that a reason Oberyn has not married is objections to multiplication of Martells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Likely Ellaria's father/mother would also have to petition or at least part forth their approval of her legitimization in order to ensure it doesn't cause any problems for their house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2908 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Because he loved her for who she was and did not care whether she was a bastard or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Because he loved her for who she was and did not care whether she was a bastard or notyeah, but I am sure ellaria would be happy to become his lawful wife and her four children would become Martell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 There is no legal need to legitimize Ellaria to marry them. Marriages with bastards are valid. Example Ser Walder Rivers - not only did he lawfully marry a trueborn noble Charlton, but his children, although trueborn, inherit his surname Rivers. I think that a reason Oberyn has not married is objections to multiplication of Martells.Charlton is the vassal of House Frey. So I guess it is easier. if you want to marry somebody higher or euqal, I guess bastardy will be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The Dornish do not care about bastardy in that they do not feel insulted if a bastard gets seated next to them at dinner, they still care about rank and they don't want bastards marrying into their own noble families.Oberyn was a younger brother whose elder brother had three young and healthy heirs. There isn't a strong reason why he would need to be married, and no compelling reason why the king would grant the unusual step of legitimacy to a bastard to continue a dynastic lineage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLR Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 yeah, but I am sure ellaria would be happy to become his lawful wife and her four children would become Martell. Or maybe she doesn't really care. I never read about Ellaria pining to become trueborn or for Oberyn to marry her. Your projecting your assumptions on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Charlton is the vassal of House Frey. So I guess it is easier. if you want to marry somebody higher or euqal, I guess bastardy will be a problem.Yes.Misalliance, as in lawfully marrying someone of lower status, no matter whether a bastard or a trueborn child of a lower status family, is perfectly legal. It merely means that the noble passes up option of a better alliance.Tywin Lannister allowed his own second brother Kevan to marry lawfully a Dorna Swyft - trueborn, but a daughter of a mere landed knight Ser Harys. Ellaria is a bastard, but a bastard of Lord Uller. So was marriage out of question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvana Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I don't think Oberyn was really that concerned with legitimacy. Most people in Dorne don't regard bastards with a fraction of the disdain they would anywhere else in Westeros. He wouldn't gain anything from it, as Doran is the leading lord of Dorne, Oberyn doesn't require legitimate heirs.To boot, it would be necessary to have the king legitimize the bastards. I don't see that happening given how the monarchy feels about Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Because that would mean going to the Baratheon king and asking for a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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