Winds update (not a blog)

[desire]

I wonder if he chews his lip

[jet199]

They really should take their time when the TWoW manuscript is finished. ADwD wasn't exactly in very good shape when it hit the shelves, and considering that Ran/Linda and the other proofreaders actually know their stuff, it is pretty obvious that things were rushed.

The problem was not at all because it was too rushed. The problem was that it was over written and the editor is too soft. This is what upsets me about the delay, but that we get the book later but that it indicates GRRM is back in bad habits. It means we get a book with the ending pushed into the next volume, it means we get Martin writing chapters multiple times from different POVs because he is aiming for cliffhangers and fake deaths rather than giving us the characters feelings and story, it means we get Martin endlessly rewriting a Tyrion chapter because he thinks the little shit's daddy issues and try hard one liners are what his fans want rather than characters who develop and stories that conclude.

[Guest]

I fully support GRRM and and am very happy he provided an honest update on the progress.  Good for him!

I do think some folks might not like it, but maybe he can do a time skip and finish the books in the next one.

[Ser Biscuit]

To me all this means is that instead of having Winds by mid-spring, we'll get it mid-late summer. I'm not on social media nor read social media, and I don't care about nor watch the TV show. I'm so disgusted by the show that I take nothing that happens on it as indicative of the real story (the books), so even if I managed to read something about the show I still wouldn't believe it matters (or is a spoiler). What matters to me and what is a spoiler to me is what is in the books only.

Thanks for the update George, can't wait for summer this year.

[The scourge of westeros]

Maybe maaaaaaaaaybe he's making rewrites due to the show?

I know he said he wouldn't, but maaaaaaaybe he is? Like, he got mad how the show handled certain things and he doesn't want to make the same mistakes?

I don't think that's the case but I wouldn't completely discard it either.

yeah, I don't think so. Believe me I'm sure he's having a hard enough time connecting the points due to his "gardener" type approach to writing. This is the first book he actually has to make the plot connect through the characters viewpoints. He's never had to do that before on a large scale. Show be damned, he's worrying about his legacy. 

[The scourge of westeros]

To me all this means is that instead of having Winds by mid-spring, we'll get it mid-summer. I'm not on social media nor read social media, and I don't care about nor watch the TV show. I'm so disgusted by the show that I take nothing that happens on it as indicative of the real story (the books), so even if I managed to read something about the show I still wouldn't believe it matters (or is a spoiler). What matters to me and what is a spoiler to me is what is in the books only.

Thanks for the update George, can't wait for summer this year.

lol, yeah, summer. Now that he himself has said the show will spoil some plot points, most likely he does not care when it comes out till he's ready. Which in GRRM terms, means retooling it until fall or winter. I wish you the best in your wait. 

[Brandon_23]

Books purist's should just watch, your not gonna avoid spoilers it's gonna be impossible. Unless you become a hermit and have no interaction with the outside work. You might as well accept it since the same thing is gonna happen with the ending since it will happen on tv first. Just keep watching the show and accept there different stories similar in some way's.. 

[kimim]

The problem was not at all because it was too rushed. The problem was that it was over written and the editor is too soft. This is what upsets me about the delay...

This. The delay implies GRRM's not back to form. Meanwhile, we can't count on decent editing, because GRRM is too big to be edited, because the editors are fans, because the publisher knows the novels will sell edited or not, idk.

Here's to hoping there is no insane split the way there was with Feast-Dance.

[Ser Jampot]

I think a bit of calm needs to be restored amongst the fandom. 

GRRM is not happy with what he has and realises it needs more work. That's a good thing. 

I think this deadline being missed has been known since last year when HBO announced there will be 8 series instead of 7. 

Hold tight is the saying. Let's believe in George to do it right. He needs positive vibes more than ever.....

[Ser Jampot]

This. The delay implies GRRM's not back to form. Meanwhile, we can't count on decent editing, because GRRM is too big to be edited, because the editors are fans, because the publisher knows the novels will sell edited or not, idk.

Here's to hoping there is no insane split the way there was with Feast-Dance.

total conjecture. The whole series is 'overwritten' by any 'normal' standards. I take you know about editing inside out in every circumstance for every type of genre?? ...... Nah. 

[sifth]

total conjecture. The whole series is 'overwritten' by any 'normal' standards. I take you know about editing inside out in every circumstance for every type of genre?? ...... Nah. 

So you had no issue at all with the way ADWD was edited?

[Winter's Cold]

They really should take their time when the TWoW manuscript is finished. ADwD wasn't exactly in very good shape when it hit the shelves, and considering that Ran/Linda and the other proofreaders actually know their stuff, it is pretty obvious that things were rushed.

Who actually has the clout to edit GRRM? What can they do if GRRM does not agree with their changes? It appears to me that expecting Winds of Winter to be similar to the first three novels is futile. Those days are past. GRRM can do whatever he likes now and no one will tell him no.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I still can't believe he had 4-5 years on D&D and they still caught up to him - no wait, they actually passed him. I go back to his so called "plan" for preventing precisely this and I can't help but laugh:

The season that’s about to debut covers the second half of the third book. The third book [A Storm of Swords] was so long that it had to be split into two. But there are two more books beyond that, A Feast for Crowsand A Dance with Dragons. A Dance with Dragons is itself a book that’s as big as A Storm of Swords. So there’s potentially three more seasons there, between Feast and Dance, if they split into two the way they did [with Storms]. Now, Feastand Dancetake place simultaneously. So you can’t do Feast and then Dance the way I did. You can combine them and do it chronologically. And it’s my hope that they’ll do it that way and then, long before they catch up with me, I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years. It might be tight on the last book, A Dream of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.

What he's saying here doesn't even make any sense. Like, he acknowledged D&D would have to adapt both books together, but somehow he still believed they were gonna pull off three seasons from...what? Brienne's chapters? Sansa's three Feast chapters were supposed to last 3 seasons, so one chapter per season? 

I mean, how can someone be this disingenuous? I personally believe Feast and Dance combined don't have enough material for one halfway decent season, let alone three. And what kind of terrible miscommunication between GRRM and D&D? Why didn't they tell him earlier that they were going to (understandably) rush through Feast and Dance so he'd at least know he wasn't gonna have that imaginary advantage? 

This is so frustrating on so many levels. What a clusterfuck. 

[Ser Jampot]

So you had no issue at all with the way ADWD was edited?

no. But I guess I have no other version to compare it too. Do you?

[sifth]

no. But I guess I have no other version to compare it too. Do you?

Ohh, I'm just comparing it to the way the other 4 books were edited; especially the first 3.

[The scourge of westeros]

I still can't believe he had 4-5 years on D&D and they still caught up to him - no wait, they actually passed him. I go back to his so called "plan" for preventing precisely this and I can't help but laugh:

The season that’s about to debut covers the second half of the third book. The third book [A Storm of Swords] was so long that it had to be split into two. But there are two more books beyond that, A Feast for Crowsand A Dance with Dragons. A Dance with Dragons is itself a book that’s as big as A Storm of Swords. So there’s potentially three more seasons there, between Feast and Dance, if they split into two the way they did [with Storms]. Now, Feastand Dancetake place simultaneously. So you can’t do Feast and then Dance the way I did. You can combine them and do it chronologically. And it’s my hope that they’ll do it that way and then, long before they catch up with me, I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years. It might be tight on the last book, A Dream of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.

What he's saying here doesn't even make any sense. Like, he acknowledged D&D would have to adapt both books together, but somehow he still believed they were gonna pull off three seasons from...what? Brienne's chapters? Sansa's three Feast chapters were supposed to last 3 seasons, so one chapter per season? 

I mean, how can someone be this disingenuous? I personally believe Feast and Dance combined don't have enough material for one halfway decent season, let alone three. And what kind of terrible miscommunication between GRRM and D&D? Why didn't they tell him earlier that they were going to (understandably) rush through Feast and Dance so he'd at least know he wasn't gonna have that imaginary advantage? 

This is so frustrating on so many levels. What a clusterfuck. 

he never understood it seems, that the show doesn't need his filler because they had already aged the characters up, and handled Dany in mereen better than George due to this. 

[Lord Varys]

The problem was not at all because it was too rushed. The problem was that it was over written and the editor is too soft. This is what upsets me about the delay, but that we get the book later but that it indicates GRRM is back in bad habits. It means we get a book with the ending pushed into the next volume, it means we get Martin writing chapters multiple times from different POVs because he is aiming for cliffhangers and fake deaths rather than giving us the characters feelings and story, it means we get Martin endlessly rewriting a Tyrion chapter because he thinks the little shit's daddy issues and try hard one liners are what his fans want rather than characters who develop and stories that conclude.

Well, I was referring to the actual factual errors in the books, not whining based on personal preferences. More importantly, it was actually Anne Groell who convinced George to move the battles into the next book and cut out the three Arianne chapters and move them into the next book, too, if I remember correctly.

This weird American/English policy that a book cannot have more than 1,500 manuscript pages shares a lot of the blame as well.

Who actually has the clout to edit GRRM? What can they do if GRRM does not agree with their changes? It appears to me that expecting Winds of Winter to be similar to the first three novels is futile. Those days are past. GRRM can do whatever he likes now and no one will tell him no.

See above. George is edited, and he freely admits as much.

I still can't believe he had 4-5 years on D&D and they still caught up to him - no wait, they actually passed him. I go back to his so called "plan" for preventing precisely this and I can't help but laugh:

The season that’s about to debut covers the second half of the third book. The third book [A Storm of Swords] was so long that it had to be split into two. But there are two more books beyond that, A Feast for Crowsand A Dance with Dragons. A Dance with Dragons is itself a book that’s as big as A Storm of Swords. So there’s potentially three more seasons there, between Feast and Dance, if they split into two the way they did [with Storms]. Now, Feastand Dancetake place simultaneously. So you can’t do Feast and then Dance the way I did. You can combine them and do it chronologically. And it’s my hope that they’ll do it that way and then, long before they catch up with me, I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years. It might be tight on the last book, A Dream of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.

What he's saying here doesn't even make any sense. Like, he acknowledged D&D would have to adapt both books together, but somehow he still believed they were gonna pull off three seasons from...what? Brienne's chapters? Sansa's three Feast chapters were supposed to last 3 seasons, so one chapter per season? 

I mean, how can someone be this disingenuous? I personally believe Feast and Dance combined don't have enough material for one halfway decent season, let alone three. And what kind of terrible miscommunication between GRRM and D&D? Why didn't they tell him earlier that they were going to (understandably) rush through Feast and Dance so he'd at least know he wasn't gonna have that imaginary advantage? 

This is so frustrating on so many levels. What a clusterfuck. 

The show easily could have made two seasons out of AFfC/ADwD if they had actually adapted those rather giving us a ridiculous travesty. There would have been problems, of course, but they could have been resolved or worked around.

[Ser Jampot]

 

Ohh, I'm just comparing it to the way the other 4 books were edited; especially the first 3.

right the different stories and arcs yeah they were different. Good point. 

[PCK]

Based on what he said, I honestly wouldn't expect it before summer 2017. He said it was still months away and that was with the writing going well. The writing isn't going to go well 100% of the time. Plus, you should factor in all of his other activities going on. The positive thing to take from that post is that he is resolved to see it completed.

[sifth]

right the different stories and arcs yeah they were different. Good point. 

I'd argue each volume is a continuation of the same story. Some sections were just better paced.