TheLightning Lord

Winds update (not a blog)

472 posts in this topic

Well, with some great stories it's not only or even predominantly what but also how. The series was ok, not great, for the first few seasons, then it deteriorated a bit and then with the infamous last year's season its quality collapsed - and it was pretty far from the heights of the original text in the first place. So, I prefer my literature great and not as fast forwarded, dumbed down, sensationalist tv. So, I'll leave the series now and will wait for the books to come.

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This assumes a lot about how the story will actually unfold.

Well, we all have read the original outline, have we not? It suggests that the fight against the Others and Daenerys' arrival/conquest of Westeros are supposed to be major plot points.

I never got through 'The Wheel of Time' but that really had a rather simple overall story up to the point I read it, but it still took more volumes than planned to wrap it up as far as I know.

I could only see George finishing the series in two volumes if the story has completely changed from the original outline. But there is really nothing in the books that suggests anything like that.

The show seems to rushing towards the end by killing certain characters and changing/cutting many plotlines, but the books are still expanding the story.

If the Others or Daenerys weren't part of the story one could see a Stark restoration and an end of the wars in the remaining two books. But both plot lines need much more than two books to unfold and put things into perspective. Else the series itself would get a very rushed and botched ending. The Others dying/being defeated shortly after they feature prominently or Dany just winning the war simply by appearing in Westeros makes little sense.

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I'm as frustrated that the show will overtake the books as anybody, but some of these comments about GRRM's "lack of work ethic" are starting to piss me off a little bit. Writing is an art, not a science. You can't force it and you can't rush it, and expecting a writer to abandon his other projects and commitments just to focus on the story you care the most is absurdly childish and self-entitled.

This goes especially for people who discovered the series because of HBO (which seems to be well over half the fanbase now). If you've been following A Song of Ice and Fire for five years or less, and are complaining about Martin's writing pace, it's like getting into a car on the last leg of a long road trip and asking "are we there yet?"

As far as I'm concerned the only mistake that Martin made was giving D&D an outline of the plot beyond what was already published. But there's no use crying over spilled Arbor Red.

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Not possible. George does not write the books in a linear fashion. He starts with one character, writes several chapters from them, jumps to someone else, then someone else, then back etc. He didn't write the prologue to ADWD until quite close to the end of the writing process for the novel. This is why AFFC/ADWD were split the way they were, because the characters in AFFC were completed (or almost so) and the ones for ADWD were not.

A FEAST-like publication for sections of WINDS should be possible, if there is a sufficient number of character arcs completed up to a point that could serve as a natural end point for that story.

In my opinion, a book focusing solely on the two impending battles, the situation at the Wall and in KL, and Aegon's campaign in the Stormlands could make a compelling book without (m)any of the other POVs featuring.

The book does not necessarily have to have as much pages as STORMS or DANCE to work.

In fact, I think WINDS will be a very unusual book of the series in any case considering that George will, for the first time, sort of begin the story in the middle of the action for many characters. It could become a very anticlimactic book if it drags on to long and there is no huge climax/battle/event/whatever at the end of the book in comparison to whatever happens near Winterfell and at Meereen early on in the book.

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I will watch the show and enjoy it for what it is and be spoiled or whatev. I'm over it. Not like it's possible to remain unspoiled for the next 4-8 years until ADOS may or may not be released in any case.

:agree:

I'm not going to lie, and pretend that I didn't enjoy having the one-up on the viewers of the show. The Red Wedding, for example. Knowing what comes next, or rather, what should comes next is nice. We no longer have that luxury, and that's that.

 

GRRM's latest update "The Last Year" has been disappointing, inevitably. However, it was refreshingly honest on his part. He is one man; a brilliant one, admittedly, but one man regardless. The pressure we, as his fans, have put on him is incredibly unfair. He is an artist, and as such, cannot be forced to complete masterpieces under time constraints.

Season Five of GoT wandered so far away from the plot of the books in some regards that I accepted that it would never have an ending mildly similar to that of the books. I, for one, am more inclined to follow the books than the show but I will watch season 6.

Some years ago, a friend and I were discussing Martin's writing pace and the speed with which the show was releasing seasons. My friend commented that the books should have one ending, and the show another. I laughed him off; what a silly idea! Yet here we are. :P It is what it is, and I'm sure that both the show and the books itself will do the saga justice in their own rights.

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To me I simply think George has a hard time making up his mind on stuff while writing. On one hand it's good because the series has fewer plot holes, on the other hand it usually takes him forever to write something from his main series.

 

This is why his Not Blog is filled with stuff about Wildcards, his theater, The World book, the tv show and just about anything that isn't called "The Winds of Winter".

 

It's just a book at the end of the day, so I really don't care when/if it ever comes out. I can however not defend procrastination either, which this largely does seem like.

Edited by sifth

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Well, we all have read the original outline, have we not? It suggests that the fight against the Others and Daenerys' arrival/conquest of Westeros are supposed to be major plot points.

I never got through 'The Wheel of Time' but that really had a rather simple overall story up to the point I read it, but it still took more volumes than planned to wrap it up as far as I know.

I could only see George finishing the series in two volumes if the story has completely changed from the original outline. But there is really nothing in the books that suggests anything like that.

The show seems to rushing towards the end by killing certain characters and changing/cutting many plotlines, but the books are still expanding the story.

If the Others or Daenerys weren't part of the story one could see a Stark restoration and an end of the wars in the remaining two books. But both plot lines need much more than two books to unfold and put things into perspective. Else the series itself would get a very rushed and botched ending. The Others dying/being defeated shortly after they feature prominently or Dany just winning the war simply by appearing in Westeros makes little sense.

I think it can be wrapped up in two volumes, assuming we get a high casualty rate among POV characters in TWOW (which I think is likely).

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I think it can be wrapped up in two volumes, assuming we get a high casualty rate among POV characters in TWOW (which I think is likely).

I think so too. Think about ASOS. Did anyone think the war of the five kings will be over in this book? The conflict with the Wildlings? From what I understand this one and the next one should be even longer than ASOS, so I don't see why he won't be able to finish the story in two 1000something-page novels.

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A FEAST-like publication for sections of WINDS should be possible, if there is a sufficient number of character arcs completed up to a point that could serve as a natural end point for that story.

.

Only if those chapters he's already written form a coherent narrative which does not introduce spoilers for the other characters not covered.

If GRRM decided two years ago to split it up and concentrated on such an approach then WoW could have been split up. As it is I doubt that the finished chapters are all from one coherent self contained story.

As a relative late comer to this series (after s2 of GOT so only waiting 3 years) I can wait more. Would prefer to read the next book than watch the next series but if wishes were horses we'd all be eating steak...

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I think we are finally going to receive winds of winter publication date

lol

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~~~snip~~~

As a relative late comer to this series (after s2 of GOT so only waiting 3 years) I can wait more. Would prefer to read the next book than watch the next series but if wishes were horses we'd all be eating steak...

Now that is just wrong...........!  

 

(lol)

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1/1/16: hundreds of pages of TWOW written.   That doesn't sound encouraging considering these books are veritable tomes. Dozens of chapters--I just named all the titles of my e-book copies and off the top of my head I'm throwing out 70 chapters as an average.   Dozens is 24 or 36 or 48--not encouraging either.   My split mind on this is ready to simultaneously enjoy this 6th reread of Dance and throw in the towel because I feel like a jerk waiting.   The publishers have a plan for accelerated production.   This is slightly hopeful.   And yeah, the tone of the entire post is depressing and defeated.   So in my fascination, having spent hundreds of dollars on purchasing various mediums to enjoy these books I get to wait more for both TWOW and the show.   That feeling like a jerk is winning the mind split.   This is insane.   Still, GRRM made a comment about that article that was circulating last week about him having NO PAGES of TWOW written.   I had a feeling he would address this publicly.     Sad it takes garbage like that to elicit any sort of response from an author with literally MILLIONS of devoted fans--many of whom I'm sure share my own feelings of jerkiness now.    

GRRM is a wizard, true.   He owes me no explanation or excuse.  It's up to me to disengage at this point as my faith in this entire THING is very low. Think I'll go listen to the new Karen Slaughter now and quit dedicating so many of my own resources to this.   

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There will be movies trust me... When you are talking billions... there is not doubt. Besides the way I layout movies make it even better. Lets say the budget for the Trilogies is 400-500 millions why will anyone say no? Again a lot of $$$ to be made... That's the plan.

HBO already confirmed the ending will be in the series. They said they owe to their subscribers. There's absolutely no chance Game of Thrones finale wont be on tv.

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 Writing is an art, not a science. .

I'd buy that from someone who is starting on the business, not Martin. Even artists who work with plastic arts are meant to have deadlines.

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Well, with some great stories it's not only or even predominantly what but also how. The series was ok, not great, for the first few seasons, then it deteriorated a bit and then with the infamous last year's season its quality collapsed - and it was pretty far from the heights of the original text in the first place. So, I prefer my literature great and not as fast forwarded, dumbed down, sensationalist tv. So, I'll leave the series now and will wait for the books to come.

HBO already confirmed the ending will be in the series. They said they owe it to their subscribers. There's absolutely no chance Game of Thrones finale will get released anywhere but on tv.

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:agree:

I'm not going to lie, and pretend that I didn't enjoy having the one-up on the viewers of the show. The Red Wedding, for example. Knowing what comes next, or rather, what should comes next is nice. We no longer have that luxury, and that's that.

 

GRRM's latest update "The Last Year" has been disappointing, inevitably. However, it was refreshingly honest on his part. He is one man; a brilliant one, admittedly, but one man regardless. The pressure we, as his fans, have put on him is incredibly unfair. He is an artist, and as such, cannot be forced to complete masterpieces under time constraints.

Season Five of GoT wandered so far away from the plot of the books in some regards that I accepted that it would never have an ending mildly similar to that of the books. I, for one, am more inclined to follow the books than the show but I will watch season 6.

Some years ago, a friend and I were discussing Martin's writing pace and the speed with which the show was releasing seasons. My friend commented that the books should have one ending, and the show another. I laughed him off; what a silly idea! Yet here we are. :P It is what it is, and I'm sure that both the show and the books itself will do the saga justice in their own rights.

if you consider affc and adwd masterpieces. I like both books but I can't say I thought they were masterpieces, they were almost guaranteed not to be, once he had to throw out his original plan of the gap of which he based his story early on

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