TheLightning Lord

Winds update (not a blog)

472 posts in this topic

The last of these is loathed by the author, has been compared to actual despicable crime by some among his vicars on earth I need not bother naming, and would doubtless be suppressed by him legally if possible.

I think the comparison with Rowling is a sadly useful one - she (with the odd exception of that Harry Potter Lexicon litigation) has been encouraging to and inclusive of her fans' enthusiasms, recognising that she owes them transformation from relative hardship to extreme, miraculous affluence, and not seeing it as her place to police them. She also wrote them their books (and indeed Pottermore).

In contrast to this generosity of approach, Martin seems reluctant either to cede / share imaginative terrain, even with lovestruck not for profit amateurs, or himself to perform. He has instead taken the more limited step of ceding increasing aspects of his actual professional performance to a telly company and particular superfans. I think there's a connection. When you create a vast world and hoard power over it, it becomes too much, a claustrophobic personal burden.

I can see both sides of the argument, when it comes to fanfic. I'd be very pissed off as an author to see someone take the characters I'd created and loved, and then write page after page of torture porn and smut (which is what a lot of fanfic is).

OTOH, some fanfics are very good indeed, and respectful of the author whose work they're based on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I can see both sides of the argument, when it comes to fanfic. I'd be very pissed off as an author to see someone take the characters I'd created and loved, and then write page after page of torture porn and smut (which is what a lot of fanfic is).

 

OTOH, some fanfics are very good indeed, and respectful of the author whose work they're based on.

 

Agreed. It's hard to find (or write) good fic, but I guess that's what I'll have to look at besides rereads for the time being.

I understand why grrm doesn't like fic though. His example of a "Sauron Strikes Back" inspires dread, but I also think the concept of what fans must accept as canon is changing. Even if that awful concept ever did get an OK from a commercial entity, enough fans would call bs and ignore that (like the Star Wars prequels!). ... But, this can be a double edged sword because there are people who go off on crazy tangents, rejecting everything that doesn't fit their very specific "headcanon."

It's interesting to see this all develop. The thirst for tWoW will continue to be real this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last of these is loathed by the author, has been compared to actual despicable crime by some among his vicars on earth I need not bother naming, and would doubtless be suppressed by him legally if possible.

I'm glad, out of everything I said, this is what you gleaned from my post lol :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, I understand the writing process is a difficult one, and inspiration doesn't just come out of thin air. But he did spend A LOT of time doing other things, avoiding having to write the new book. Its clear he doesn't view the new book as a fun thing to be writing and isn't loving it. 

But maybe if he spent less time avoiding doing it, and actually doing it it would be less hard for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been inevitable for some time that the show would end long before Dream comes out.  The fact that it may well end before Winds is even released doesn't change all that much - it moves forward the spoiling from season 6 to season 7 or at most 8, a difference of a year or two when we're 5+ years away minimum.  All we really have to hope is that he finishes it at all, because it's entirely possible he doesn't bother.  If he doesn't enjoy writing it (and it certainly seems he doesn't) then at this point he has little personal reason to continue with it.  I just feel sorry for those who are overly engaged in the series.

Chances of avoiding spoilers are next to nil.  Just means I'll have to stop visiting this forum or anything else related to the series come April.  Probably won't succeed anyway 'cause people will post stuff elsewhere, but oh well.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, I understand the writing process is a difficult one, and inspiration doesn't just come out of thin air. But he did spend A LOT of time doing other things, avoiding having to write the new book. Its clear he doesn't view the new book as a fun thing to be writing and isn't loving it. 

But maybe if he spent less time avoiding doing it, and actually doing it it would be less hard for him.

George would not have made it to ADwD or been able to give us the Theon, Mercy(Arya), Barristan, Arrianne, and Alyanne Chapters if  he had been avoiding writing.  

This is not a term paper.  This is a world he's created and loves and wants to shares with us.

 "Oh, ye of little Faith and sense of entitlement and 'I want it now!'"

He is not avoiding writing.  World Creation is the hardest thing a fiction author can do and make believable and entertaining.  GRRM is still world creating. He's creating the Land of Always Winter (most likely to be seen through Bran's eyes) a place only cusory described in GoT  and probably much more we have yet to see as well.  Not to mention all the characters and conflicts that need resolving.  Tolstoy had the advantage of having history to rely on and no one knew Tolkien was writing what we would now call a sequel to "the Hobbit."  

So give the man a break.

Edited by TheReal_Rebel
punctuation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

George would not have made it to ADwD or been able to give us the Theon, Mercy(Arya), Barristan, Arrianne, and Alyanne Chapters if  he had been avoiding writing.  

This is not a term paper.  This is a world he's created and loves and wants to shares with us.

 "Oh, ye of little Faith and sense of entitlement and 'I want it now!'"

He is not avoiding writing.  World Creation is the hardest thing a fiction author can do and make believable and entertaining.  GRRM is still world creating, the Land of Always Winter (most likely to be seen through Bran's eyes) is only thinly hinted at in the HBO show, and probably much more as well.  Not to mention all the characters and conflicts that need resolving.  Tolstoy had the advantage of having history to rely on and no one knew Tolkien was writing what we would now call a sequel to "the Hobbit."  

So give the man a break.

The problem is that GRRM already created the world in the first book. It's clearly something that he's good at. That's not the issue. He needed to condense his plot instead of expanding it. Instead he did the opposite and we ended up with the two worst books in the series, AFFC and ADWD. Comparing Tolstoy and Tolkien to a celebrity writer like GRRM is laughable. GRRM can't even be compared to JK Rowling. Also do you really believe GRRM isn't relying on history when he writes these books? That's quite interesting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my thoughts echo gryz here. the series will never live up to it's potential as a modern classic. it's pretty depressing. I think george fucked up his legacy.
 

This is exactly what I'm thinking.

It's unbelievable that nobody has told GRRM what they thought exactly, during the last 5 years. I bet a lot of people have been thinking: "George, if you don't take this seriously, you're gonna mess up your books, your reputation and your legacy. Beyond recognition". George had the opportunity to write the first fantasy series since LotR that people would accept as true literature. That opportunity is gone now. Asoiaf will be "that series that was never properly finished". Forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm prepared to give George some slack over the last 2 books. They weren't on the same level as the others and had a lot of issues, but he obviously wanted to do a slow rebuild of the story.

But at the same time you can see how much he struggles with it. The 5 year gap is a symptom of a man who doesn't know what he wants to do with his story and the pressure to get it out and make it good is clearly too much for him. I don't think he'll ever finish actually 

 

Edited by Channel4s-JonSnow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my thoughts echo gryz here. the series will never live up to it's potential as a modern classic. it's pretty depressing. I think george fucked up his legacy.
 

Ruining his legacy by delaying book? What the hell am I reading?:huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ruining his legacy by delaying book? What the hell am I reading?:huh:

At this rate he will forever be remembered as the writer who never finished his magnum opus or he will be the writer who finished his magnum opus after the adaptation was already over. Both outcomes tarnish his legacy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that GRRM already created the world in the first book. It's clearly something that he's good at. That's not the issue. He needed to condense his plot instead of expanding it. Instead he did the opposite and we ended up with the two worst books in the series, AFFC and ADWD. Comparing Tolstoy and Tolkien to a celebrity writer like GRRM is laughable. GRRM can't even be compared to JK Rowling. Also do you really believe GRRM isn't relying on history when he writes these books? That's quite interesting. 

He absolutely did not create the world in the first book.  George makes the world up as he goes along.  Admittedly there's more lore that's been created as time has continued that isn't directly related to what we're shown (D&E and companion books), but D&E is deliberately stylistically different while he's emphasised hugely that most of the other lore stuff is vague and maybe wrong.  

I'll agree that the Tolstoy comparison is a little odd, though if you think he wasn't a celebrity writer himself you're very wrong.  But anyway, different authors have different strengths; none of the authors mentioned has anything other than the most superficial of links to each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you ruined it george!

 

You always will be remembered as the guy who was going to be the american tolkien, but end up being a joke, being his ending and main devolop spoiled by HBOs softcore porn...

 

I cant even imagine what would Tolkien had thought if the peleanor fieds battle was going to be spoiled by a movie, or worst, a tv series

 

Even lucas, let himself ruin his own story before selling it to a company. He completed the journey, told the story he wanted to tell, and even now seams to have some regrets about selling the aftermatch.

(And he did sell it for 4k, thats pretty more than george)

 

But you my little friend were to greedy, and to quick to get greedy

 

And you know what? Thats ok, you are old, and you might wanted to enjoy life. Thats not a sin. But a path that does not end in greatness.

 

Tired of HBO porn, shock value, and all that crap, and George lazyness and declining quality, Im moving my money as a customer to other franchises.

 

Sure, Ill buy the paperback cover of winds, in 2018, and watch an HBO re cap in a boring sunday. But thats all.

Edited by Señor de la Tormenta
spelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that GRRM already created the world in the first book. It's clearly something that he's good at. That's not the issue. He needed to condense his plot instead of expanding it. Instead he did the opposite and we ended up with the two worst books in the series, AFFC and ADWD. Comparing Tolstoy and Tolkien to a celebrity writer like GRRM is laughable. GRRM can't even be compared to JK Rowling. Also do you really believe GRRM isn't relying on history when he writes these books? That's quite interesting. 

I think this nails it.  Rowling got world-building exactly right by having it serve the plot rather than vice versa.  And the only reason we care about Tolkien's world-building is because LotR was a magnificent epic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so he was sure that he could finish in two months, but now he doesn't know when he can finish. how is that possible? only explanation i can think of is that he has no idea what to write. he rewrites a lot and it's taking longer to write chapters. i have bad feeling about TWOW. i hope i'm wrong and this book will be better than the previous two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this nails it.  Rowling got world-building exactly right by having it serve the plot rather than vice versa.  And the only reason we care about Tolkien's world-building is because LotR was a magnificent epic.

Why are people even comparing Rowling to Martin?  They write nothing that's even remotely similar.  

Tolkien's works are appreciated by those who enjoy the classics and the myths of other cultures and the way he engaged with them.  As far as I'm concerned, The Silmarillion is his greatest creation, uncompleted (necessarily) as it was.  But again, he has next to nothing in common with Martin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are people even comparing Rowling to Martin?  They write nothing that's even remotely similar.  

Tolkien's works are appreciated by those who enjoy the classics and the myths of other cultures and the way he engaged with them.  As far as I'm concerned, The Silmarillion is his greatest creation, uncompleted (necessarily) as it was.  But again, he has next to nothing in common with Martin.

Rowling and Tolkien are both fiction writers who wrote very popular and influential fantasy novels. GRRM is also a fiction writer who wrote several very popular and influential fantasy novels. Unlike GRRM, however, they finished their most famous works before the adaptations. That's the main comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.