TheLightning Lord

Winds update (not a blog)

472 posts in this topic

The problem is that the process you're describing should already be kicking in for TWoW. Once he gets past the Winterfell/Meereen battles (which were originally targeted for ADwD) the process of heading for the conclusion should be kicking in. POVs must start converging rather quickly. The time to introduce new subplots is past. The end of TWoW must bring us to a big cliffhanger (like the Fall of the Wall and the Other Invasion, perhaps Dany landing in Westeros) so that there is time to execute the conclusion.

If indeed he has known all along where the major arcs of the story are headed, books 6 and 7 should be the easiest books in the series to write. (Books 4 &5 were, predictably, the hardest.) In Christopher Tolkien's history of how his father wrote LotR, once the last plot twist was settled on (Aragorn taking the Paths of the Dead) many of the last chapters came very quickly. Some almost "wrote themselves". GRRM isn't JRR Tolkien, but his plot should have been worked out while writing Feast and Dance.

I find the fact that GRRM is still debating plot choices at this stage quite alarming.

Anyway, Hung Be The Heavens With Black. I'm in mourning.

 

Obviously, I wish it was coming out in the Spring.  But, I'm fairly reassured to learn that he's written "dozens" of chapters, and "hundreds" of pages, so I imagine the end is not that far away.

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He's delaying because of the contract with HBO imo, anyway i'm more interested in Fire&Blood Targaryen book at this point, i'm slowly losing interest tbh

I think that rumor is bullshit that book purists have to say in order to put the blame on HBO and D&D.

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yeah. I remember asha being excited a bout the prospect of him making the kingsmoot invalid. Figured that being a big plot point in winds.

As excited as Robb was about retaking Moat Cailin?

Actually, the fact that a character makes plans we're aware of, makes it less likely to succeed.

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Jesus fuck. I'm starting to realise how grim it's going to be when season 6 starts, will have to ignore all my filthy casual friends who watch the show, forget facebook/twitter etc., try not to overhear conversations strangers are having about the show, stay the fuck away from sites like this at all costs. Unfortunately that show has become so ubiquitous this will be very difficult indeed. 

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I wonder if he just hasn't written very much relative to what he wanted, or if the story has sprawled out again and things are moving at a snail's pace despite a lot being written.

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Meh, I've come to peace with the fact the show will tell me the ending at this point. This means that I'm more than happy for GRRM to take as much time as he needs to get the very best book out that he can. I'll still be interested in how all of those stories that aren't in the show turn out, and I'm sort of glad he is taking his time and not rushing them any more.

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The existence of the show and the fact that it will spoil the ending of ASoIaF may be a blessing in disguise.  Without the show, the ending of the saga might never have been known, which would be horrible for long-time readers.  So show haters, consider that. 

What bums me out is that we will probably never get to the ending of the Dunk & Egg series. It is supposed to take us all the way to the mysterious Summerhall tragedy. We may never know now what happened there. Hell, we may not even get another Dunk & Egg story. :(

Maybe HBO can finish that saga, too. 

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That's depressing. At least we know Theon's world of suffering continues unabated.

How do you know he's still continiuning to suffer? He could be in the Iron Islands for all you know.. as a king

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I think that rumor is bullshit that book purists have to say in order to put the blame on HBO and D&D.

Ha, i'm not a book purists, i watch the show too. But it makes a lot of sense (and profit) if the book comes after season 6 because at this point of the show not one person can spoil the storyline because they have moved beyond the book. Anyone who has interest will watch therefore boost the rating, more money, more merchandise, more publicity, etc etc. I don't blame them but it makes sense

Edited by redtree

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At least he finally opened up, even if it did sound depressing

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I am really glad he spoke up, imagine the torture of no news till like end of March with constant justifications and hopes it will be out before Season 6. He could have told this earlier, he would be more relaxed and I would be more relaxed, and if in that case he happened to finish before start of the show we would be much happier then even in the case he did say he would finish and finished, that way it would be like gift from heavens. But he did what he did and better tell now then wait for the February or March, man would I hate him in that case.

And this lumping of TWOW with ADOS is ridiculous, TWOW is happening well before the ending, there is still much to be done and much still can be changed, it's the high point in plot, it is really hard to write it effectively. If he sticks to the original ending he envisioned and he doesn't try to do last minute and super significant changes, ADOS should be pretty straight forward to write, so we should only wait one or two years if all goes well.

No way I am going to watch the Season 6, I should have watched any of them if I was smart but I thought I know better then my father and so on... But now I am adamant in not watching, maybe even lay of internet for a while, people tend to be more loose-mouthed with spoilers when there is no threat of immediate physical retaliation.  

Edited by Equilibrium

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Agreed Ruhail. The uncertainty on progress is worse than knowing he is not close to finishing. At least this way I can manage a decision about how to handle the viewing of the show. It gives plenty of lead time for me to notify coworkers and friends not to divulge spoilers if I decide to hold off on watching the season. Although, honestly, I'll probably still watch the show.

I do feel bad for GRRM. You can really feel the stress he is under. We've all dealt with pressure to meet deadlines, he just happens to have millions of people waiting on him. I can't imagine what that must feel like.

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The problem is that the process you're describing should already be kicking in for TWoW. Once he gets past the Winterfell/Meereen battles (which were originally targeted for ADwD) the process of heading for the conclusion should be kicking in. POVs must start converging rather quickly. The time to introduce new subplots is past. The end of TWoW must bring us to a big cliffhanger (like the Fall of the Wall and the Other Invasion, perhaps Dany landing in Westeros) so that there is time to execute the conclusion.

If indeed he has known all along where the major arcs of the story are headed, books 6 and 7 should be the easiest books in the series to write. (Books 4 &5 were, predictably, the hardest.) In Christopher Tolkien's history of how his father wrote LotR, once the last plot twist was settled on (Aragorn taking the Paths of the Dead) many of the last chapters came very quickly. Some almost "wrote themselves". GRRM isn't JRR Tolkien, but his plot should have been worked out while writing Feast and Dance.

I find the fact that GRRM is still debating plot choices at this stage quite alarming.

But you should not be surprised. He has introduced so many sub plots that I don't think even he knows how he's going to get them to a conclusion. Hence the constant rewriting.

This reddit thread outlines all the hanging plot threads:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3q9kdz/spoilers_all_where_have_we_come_from_where_are_we/

As you can so see there is so much for him to tie up. I think Winds is supposed to start dealing with the Others, Bran and the Lands of Always winter etc. Supposing that takes up a lot of the book, what about Dany getting to Westeros. He needs to get that done ASAP. And he's just started some new plot in the Vale with Sansa and Shadrich the mouse and some such nonsense. Apparently Sansa is supposed to become some master player of the game. When is he going to get around to her training for that? And then we have all that stuff going in Kl.

That's why I am glad that the show has cut off the extra fat. Sure we may not get as epic a tale as in the books but we would at least get an ending even if it is a bare bones outline. David and Dan, the producers, don't have the luxury of indefinitely extending deadlines. HBO can't wait around for years and the actors are certainly not waiting around. Hence the more restrained story arcs. We can atleast be sure that the main characters Jon, Dany, Arya, Bran and Tyrion will more or less have the same ending as in the books as they are following a similar trajectory with no major changes. Secondary characters may end up with different endings as pointed out by GRRM.

I am just glad the show will give us an ending within the next couple of years. 

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I won't be watching the show, unless the consensus from the forums is that it's a big improvement on the dross that was season 5, I watched the first four episodes of season five and decided to go no further, so I cancelled my NowTV sub.

I'm vaguely disappointed that TWOW isn't coming out (that's why I've paid one of my sporadic visits here, to find out what's going on), but it is only vaguely, I'm over it now, there is no anticipation.

While everyone is waiting, can I recommend The Malazan Book of the Fallen series, by Steven Erikson? I was recommended these books on a newspaper comments column after writing a post about how fed up I was waiting for GRRM, and I haven't looked back since. There are 10 books in the core series, all very thick books, and there are another 6 written by his partner in the world development Ian Campbell Esslemont, there are also other peripheral books being written, but those 17 took me the best part of two years to get through, and I'm on book 7 (Reaper's Gale) in my second reading. I'll probably need to read it all a few more times too, to pick up on everything and the references to parallel events in other books.

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I won't be watching the show, unless the consensus from the forums is that it's a big improvement on the dross that was season 5, I watched the first four episodes of season five and decided to go no further, so I cancelled my NowTV sub.

Too bad for you, because the last 4 episodes of Season 5 were the best run of episodes the series has had so far.

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Too bad for you, because the last 4 episodes of Season 5 were the best run of episodes the series has had so far.

I disagree, and even if what you were saying was true, the Game of Thrones so far is not good benchmark for narrative quality.

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I don't know if I should feel bad for George or simply laugh. I mean this was bound to happen sooner or later, the moment he signed the rights over to HBO and didn't improve his writing speed. Who knows if we'll ever see an ending to this series at this rate, it certainly doesn't look that way, but it's just a book at the end of the day.

 

It is sad that Geroge really doesn't seem to have the passion to write these books he once did though.

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