TheLightning Lord

Winds update (not a blog)

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Since it's now a given that the show will finish before the books, I think GRRM should put aside writing TWoW and ADoS for a bit and write say 2 episodes each of seasons 7 and 8 of GoT.  D&D should pick the most critical episodes and allow GRRM to write them, including the final episode of the series.

That way GRRM could still have a major impact on the ending of his great saga.  I really think this would be great.

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I think that rumor is bullshit that book purists have to say in order to put the blame on HBO and D&D.

Yes, pretty much. It makes very little sense. Such a clandestine deal would have to be a source of huge discomfort for the author, with the need of maintaining the lie constantly, giving dishonest answers in interviews, writing dishonest blog entries, etc. Even assuming he's capable of that (for the sake of the argument, because that's a bigass assumption I don't subscribe to) - why would he accept that? For what amount of money? They already paid him, I imagine quite handsomely, for the source material, how much more would they be willing to pay for not writing the remaining books?

Moreover: they broadcast seasons 1-5 following the material already published, season 7 (and 8, if there is 8) will surely be out before the final book gets finished anyway, so that trick would work for season 6 only. I'm not sure it would be worth the hassle.

Also: it took George five years to finish "Feast", and six years to finish "Dance". If "Winds" aren't out yet, then so far it could be summed up as "he's writing at his usual pace". Hence the sinister deal hypothesis is completely unnecessary.

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I don't know if I should feel bad for George or simply laugh. I mean this was bound to happen sooner or later, the moment he signed the rights over to HBO and didn't improve his writing speed. Who knows if we'll ever see an ending to this series at this rate, it certainly doesn't look that way, but it's just a book at the end of the day.

 

It is sad that Geroge really doesn't seem to have the passion to write these books he once did though.

I am not the one to defend George's lack of work ethic but I don't think you should go as far as saying he lost passion for his work.

First ASOIAF novels were shorter and far simpler then recent ones, George probably works on the books the same way and spends the same time as he used to, you can think it is inadequate now that his work has grown in both quantity and complexity and that he should put more work hours now seeing he needs more pages and more time per page, but he can be if not excused then understood, he wants to go to Dubai or Sweden or Japan and he finds it hard to abandon his other projects or passions.

I would hammer it by working day and night, have some assistants and editors to polish it and then take years long vacation but George does it differently, he had done differently his whole career, it payed off of him and I must admit whole series will probably be better because he has done it his way instead of rushing and outsourcing 

 

 

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Yes, pretty much. It makes very little sense. Such a clandestine deal would have to be a source of huge discomfort for the author, with the need of maintaining the lie constantly, giving dishonest answers in interviews, writing dishonest blog entries, etc. Even assuming he's capable of that (for the sake of the argument, because that's a bigass assumption I don't subscribe to) - why would he accept that? For what amount of money? They already paid him, I imagine quite handsomely, for the source material, how much more would they be willing to pay for not writing the remaining books?

Not to mention, his poor publishers. I am sure he owes them a completed book more than any deal he has with HBO. They stand to lose the most with any delays. In two years time, we will know how Jon's story ends, how Dany's ends, how Tyrion's end. Readers are starting to lose interest in the books with the long delays. After the show ends many of them may not even buy the books. It's the book publishers who stand to lose with GRRM's delays and I don't think GRRM would deliberately do that to them.

And I don't see how it matters to HBO whether or not the book is out before season 6. Makes no difference to them. Book readers are a small percentage of their overall audience who will continue watching come season 6 regardless of whether there is a book or not. As always.

Edited by Wilnova

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How about GRRM release Volume 1 of TWoW with the dozens of chapters already written?

I would not want him to do it. It will be the same case with AFFC\ADWD and pt2 will be released 5 years after pt 1.

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Hey, at least we got the update. Obviously, we would all like to see it soon. 

I'm far more interested in a final product that GRRM is happy and proud of. I hope he continues to take his time. Our impatience shouldn't get in the way of his progress. It is what it is. You can blame his extracurricular activities all you want. To think that anyone could produce a great book by locking themselves up in a room and writing until something is finished is ridiculous. 

He is obviously very disappointed by how slowly the progress is going. But I'd much rather have to wait than to accept a novel that is sub-par due to publishing deadlines and rushed writing. 

 

As for the show: I don't really know what I'll do. I started the show before the novels. The show will pound out the ending long before the books are finished. 

Avoiding spoilers sounds like a completely pointless fight. Brace yourselves. Spoilers are coming. 

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The series will not reveal the ending of the story... It will be done in a Movie most likely a Trilogy. By then lets say 2022 maybe the last book will be out...

You have to think of the bottom lines for all parties involved (on the executive level) $$$.  It boils down to this. Books fans most likely have cable with HBO not just for GoT, they make their profits out of BD sales. HBO its in the films business as well and has made money with the Sex and The City movies. If the series reveals the ending of the saga. Everyone loses $$$ including HBO. So the plan goes something like this:

Season 6 (1st part of Book 6) - Season 7 (2nd part of Book 6) - Season 8 (1st part of Book 7) - Movie (Trilogy) (last part of Book 7 and the End)

That's the plan where everyone lives happily ever after...

So season 8 is 2018. The movies shot all in sequence will start production on 2018 (the series finishes production a year before April releases) so lets say it takes 2 year to film etc we have the 1st movie in 2020, 2nd in 2021, 3rd in 2022. Each movie theatrical release is 2.15 or 2.30 so in total its 7-8 hours for the movies enough to finish the last part of the books. For books fans just like Peter Jackson did the DC cuts will be 3.30 or so purist are looking at 12+ hours so more BD sales etc.

Most likely to me that is the plan... 

Edited by Ben zo Xand

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All I feel is sympathy for GRRM. Deadlines are a bitch and you can't rush art without losing quality, something he clearly isn't willing to do.

I hope he knows most fans understand and prefer quality over quantity.

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Most of us knew it anyway but the party is well and truly over.

I've met a lot of GRRM types in my professional career.  They are great at starting something but need others to help them finish otherwise they end up starting several projects and finishing none of them.  Then when the pressure is on they flounder even more and don't deliver at all.

I know it is macabre and I know it's disrespectful to the author.  But he is never going to finish these books.  He has created a vast monster he is unable to tame.  Let's be honest he is procrastinating.  He has done so since 2001.  The last two books were nowhere near of the same quality as the first three and took ages to write.  This was before the distraction of fame.  He is lost.  And these books will never be finished.

If he can't write at pace in his 50's and 60's then there is no chance he can write at pace in his 70's or 80's and there is every possibility that he won't make it that far anyway or, as is common in older people (especially those pushing themselves too hard), he will have health complications that will stop him being able to write the book even if his mind is still sharp.

Watch the show guys.  It's the only closure you're going to get on this story unless GRRM relaxes his rule of allowing someone else to finish the novels should he be unable to do so.  And I believe he should do so.  GRRM is not our bitch, but we are not his either.  The moment he decided to share the world it became part of the public domain.  It's no longer just his and he is being an arrogant **** to those of us who have invested 20ish years and money on this journey only for him to say if he dies the books won't be finished.

He brought all of this on himself.  Hand the writing over George.  And do it whilst you're alive.  Because you aren't going to finish.  You probably won't even finish TWOW.

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The series will not reveal the ending of the story... It will be done in a Movie most likely a Trilogy. By then lets say 2022 maybe the last book will be out...

You have to think of the bottom lines for all parties involved (on the executive level) $$$.  It boils down to this. Books fans most likely have cable with HBO not just for GoT, they make the profits out of BD sales. HBO its in the films business as well and has many money with the Sex and The City movies. If the series reveals the ending of the saga. Everyone loses $$$ including HBO. So the plan goes something like this:

Season 6 (1st part of Book 6) - Season 7 (2nd part of Book 6) - Season 8 (1st part of Book 7) - Movie (Trilogy) (last part of Book 7 and the End)

That's the plan where everyone lives happily ever after...

So season 8 is 2018. The movies shot all in sequence will start production on 2018 (the series finishes production a year before April releases) so lets say it takes 2 year to film etc we have the 1st movie in 2020, 2nd in 2021, 3rd in 2022. Each movie theatrical release is 2.15 or 2.30 so in total its 7-8 hours for the movies enough to finish the last part of the books. For books fans just like Peter Jackson did the DC cuts will be 3.30 or so purist are looking at 12+ hours so more BD sales etc.

Most likely to me that is the plan... 

GRRM already said that there aren't any movies planned.

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The series will not reveal the ending of the story... It will be done in a Movie most likely a Trilogy. By then lets say 2022 maybe the last book will be out...

You have to think of the bottom lines for all parties involved (on the executive level) $$$.  It boils down to this. Books fans most likely have cable with HBO not just for GoT, they make the profits out of BD sales. HBO its in the films business as well and has made money with the Sex and The City movies. If the series reveals the ending of the saga. Everyone loses $$$ including HBO. So the plan goes something like this:

Season 6 (1st part of Book 6) - Season 7 (2nd part of Book 6) - Season 8 (1st part of Book 7) - Movie (Trilogy) (last part of Book 7 and the End)

That's the plan where everyone lives happily ever after...

So season 8 is 2018. The movies shot all in sequence will start production on 2018 (the series finishes production a year before April releases) so lets say it takes 2 year to film etc we have the 1st movie in 2020, 2nd in 2021, 3rd in 2022. Each movie theatrical release is 2.15 or 2.30 so in total its 7-8 hours for the movies enough to finish the last part of the books. For books fans just like Peter Jackson did the DC cuts will be 3.30 or so purist are looking at 12+ hours so more BD sales etc.

Most likely to me that is the plan... 

I suspect you are right.  There is big money to be made in doing it the way you laid out. 

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GRRM already said that there aren't any movies planned.

There will be movies trust me... When you are talking billions... there is not doubt. Besides the way I layout movies make it even better. Lets say the budget for the Trilogies is 400-500 millions why will anyone say no? Again a lot of $$$ to be made... That's the plan.

Edited by Ben zo Xand

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Whoever believes that those books are entering their final phases are mistaken, regardless what George himself seems to believe. Imagining a story in your head isn't the same as written pages, after all.

If the story had been entering its final phases ADwD would have seen Daenerys going to Westeros and the Others attacking and breaking the Wall. TWoW would then be about the bad part of the fight against the Others, the book in which evil triumphs, the heroes suffer major defeats, have to retreat and regroup, and come up with a plan how to win the day. ADoS would then be about that.

This assumes a lot about how the story will actually unfold.

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This assumes a lot about how the story will actually unfold.

More like if George knows if anything. Those comments on frequently rewriting stuff, "big and small", has me wondering.

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GRRM on his 'Not a Blog' updated us on 'Not a Book'.  Arrrrrggghhh!

Should I :lmao: or  :crying: ?

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More like if George knows if anything. Those comments on frequently rewriting stuff, "big and small", has me wondering.

Makes you wonder whether he is trying to change a lot of the plot to ensure that it massively different to the TV Show.  Maybe he has an ulterior motive of letting the TV show finish before releasing the next book so that he can change the outcome completely from his original intention.

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First, I'm not mad, but a lot disappointed. Either way, I am positive we might see the book in July. Professionally speaking, I doubt Martin wants to delay this any further.

About the show, I haven't yet decided, tbh. Jon being resurrected is not an spoiler because is obvious as fuck. They told us Shireen would be killed in the books (yes, D&d plainly spoiled that), but I think we all agree it won't happen the same, not to say that many here didn't even doubt it would happen, even before the show. So, they will do the same things as the book, but they will change the path to those events. I'm not sure how that will affect my reading. I'll think about it.

In the same way, I'm not so sure how that will affect ASOIAF. I'm not a fan of Martin, but I'm enjoying ASOIAF a lot. For those who care, I wrote before about how the show will affect ASOIAF's perception among casual readers or watchers and it's not good. It would be blind denial to say that the show won't affect ASOIAF and its fandom in any way.

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Makes you wonder whether he is trying to change a lot of the plot to ensure that it massively different to the TV Show.  Maybe he has an ulterior motive of letting the TV show finish before releasing the next book so that he can change the outcome completely from his original intention.

Considering that he's addressed this issue on multiple occasions and said that he absolutely will not change his plans, I'm inclined to doubt it.

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Remember that discussion of the author's mortality/weight etc are considered disrespectful (he has family members who visit the board) and against board policy. Please be careful about those things.

How about GRRM release Volume 1 of TWoW with the dozens of chapters already written?

Not possible. George does not write the books in a linear fashion. He starts with one character, writes several chapters from them, jumps to someone else, then someone else, then back etc. He didn't write the prologue to ADWD until quite close to the end of the writing process for the novel. This is why AFFC/ADWD were split the way they were, because the characters in AFFC were completed (or almost so) and the ones for ADWD were not.

Makes you wonder whether he is trying to change a lot of the plot to ensure that it massively different to the TV Show.  Maybe he has an ulterior motive of letting the TV show finish before releasing the next book so that he can change the outcome completely from his original intention.

No. That would destroy the foreshadowing and build-up from the prior novels. George has been adamant that he will change things where it's organic and improves the book, but he will never change something for the sake of changing it, or because of the TV show.

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