Who will Brienne kill in s6 finale?

[dariopatke]

nope. I mean, she might. But it would a bit dumb as that is the first place Ramsay would look.

Also that is very far. I think the Vale army is closer at hand so even if she were headed to the Wall she would meet them first.

First, if you can chose between your brother and a man who betrayed your father and sold you to a monster O think choise is pretty obvious.

Yes, Ramsay will go for CB because he knows she has nowhere else to go.

Even if she wants to go to Petyr she thinks he is at KL or maybe at Eyriee, but she cant have a single clue that he is on his way.

She also cant go below the Neck because of Moat Caillin and besides the Wall she can go to some castle and doubtless it can be either Last Heart or White Harbor, but I wont take my chamces with that because they might be loyal to Boltons.

She may go with Theon to II, but remember that those people persuaded Theon to attack WF so they wont be nice to her, they might give her to Lannisters for pardon or return to Boltons for Deepwood Mote and Torrhen Square.

Jon is Lord Commander amd the only person that can help her and protect her.

And yes, we dont know where Vale army is, they might be gathering at Bloody Gate at that moment.

[Hippocras]

First, if you can chose between your brother and a man who betrayed your father and sold you to a monster O think choise is pretty obvious.

Yes, Ramsay will go for CB because he knows she has nowhere else to go.

Even if she wants to go to Petyr she thinks he is at KL or maybe at Eyriee, but she cant have a single clue that he is on his way.

She also cant go below the Neck because of Moat Caillin and besides the Wall she can go to some castle and doubtless it can be either Last Heart or White Harbor, but I wont take my chamces with that because they might be loyal to Boltons.

She may go with Theon to II, but remember that those people persuaded Theon to attack WF so they wont be nice to her, they might give her to Lannisters for pardon or return to Boltons for Deepwood Mote and Torrhen Square.

Jon is Lord Commander amd the only person that can help her and protect her.

And yes, we dont know where Vale army is, they might be gathering at Bloody Gate at that moment.

I don't think it is about WANTING to go to LF at all. I think season 5 showed us that she is working with LF for her own reasons. She does, however, know that he is a dangerous man who she does not want to go up against.

If he shows up in the North with an army that makes him an immediate threat unless she continues to be his ally. So while she certainly would not PLAN to run to him, if she came across his army while fleeing, she would very quickly see that an army on her side is a better bet than a bunch of murderers thieves and rapists sworn to defend the Wall and nothing else.

[dariopatke]

I don't think it is about WANTING to go to LF at all. I think season 5 showed us that she is working with LF for her own reasons. She does, however, know that he is a dangerous man who she does not want to go up against.

If he shows up in the North with an army that makes him an immediate threat unless she continues to be his ally. So while she certainly would not PLAN to run to him, if she came across his army while fleeing, she would very quickly see that an army on her side is a better bet than a bunch of murderers thieves and rapists sworn to defend the Wall and nothing else.

Ok, firstly every deal they had should be broken at momment when she relaised what a monster Ramsay is. If she runs into him, she should join him ofc, but she doesnt know he is coming, he told her to seduce Ramsay if Stannis loses, Stannis lost and so she sees she cant do that.

And Stark kids think Nights Watch is honorable call and mainly good men are there, you see that when Jon comes there so I have no reason to believe that Sansa thinks she will be safe there, even if she knows she is mamong rapists she would still be safe because her brother is LC. And she can come across his army she needs to go souh and why would she go south? Plus, if she finds Brienne she will certanly convince her not to go to man who sold her to monster and it is far from his worst deed.

[Hippocras]

Ok, firstly every deal they had should be broken at momment when she relaised what a monster Ramsay is. If she runs into him, she should join him ofc, but she doesnt know he is coming, he told her to seduce Ramsay if Stannis loses, Stannis lost and so she sees she cant do that.

And Stark kids think Nights Watch is honorable call and mainly good men are there, you see that when Jon comes there so I have no reason to believe that Sansa thinks she will be safe there, even if she knows she is mamong rapists she would still be safe because her brother is LC. And she can come across his army she needs to go souh and why would she go south? Plus, if she finds Brienne she will certanly convince her not to go to man who sold her to monster and it is far from his worst deed.

I think you are being a bit naive.

Littlefinger shows up in the North with an army. The Watch is NOT an army. Jon may be still Lord Commander as far as she knows (though she might even hear he was killed) but that doesn't change the fact that the Watch can't do shit all to help her. They can not and will not fight the Boltons. They cannot and will not fight the Vale army. Maybe they could give her a bed and some food for a bit, until Ramsay or Littlefinger comes with their army to take her back. Now do you see the problem?

Sansa's moves now are not going to be about emotion, or how she feels about Littlefinger or Ramsay, or Jon or anyone else. What she does will be done with some thought to the stategic situation, which is this: 

There are two armies in the North, the Boltons, and the one Littlefinger is bringing. There is also simmering resentment in the North against the Boltons, making a third potential army of Northerners. Those Northerners are her people, and Littlefinger's Vale army can either help them or help the Boltons. Who will Littlefinger choose? Well surely she wants to have some influence over that.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

nope. I mean, she might. But it would a bit dumb as that is the first place Ramsay would look.

Also that is very far. I think the Vale army is closer at hand so even if she were headed to the Wall she would meet them first.

Yeah, most likely. Umbers are probably out of question. I mean when Ramsay mentioned Jon to her would probably serve as where Ramsay is going to look for her. Maybe he'll send a letter warning them or send his men there. I must say show version of PL might be nice...you know to push to this Ramsay vs Jon rivalry even ruther.

[dariopatke]

I think you are being a bit naive.

Littlefinger shows up in the North with an army. The Watch is NOT an army. Jon may be still Lord Commander as far as she knows (though she might even hear he was killed) but that doesn't change the fact that the Watch can't do shit all to help her. They can not and will not fight the Boltons. They cannot and will not fight the Vale army. Maybe they could give her a bed and some food for a bit, until Ramsay or Littlefinger comes with their army to take her back. Now do you see the problem?

Sansa's moves now are not going to be about emotion, or how she feels about Littlefinger or Ramsay, or Jon or anyone else. What she does will be done with some thought to the stategic situation, which is this: 

There are two armies in the North, the Boltons, and the one Littlefinger is bringing. There is also simmering resentment in the North against the Boltons, making a third potential army of Northerners. Those Northerners are her people, and Littlefinger's Vale army can either help them or help the Boltons. Who will Littlefinger choose? Well surely she wants to have some influence over that.

 

Which is why Jon would send her in Eastwatch(if he is LC at momment when she comes).

You dont see my point, Sansa doesnt know LF is on his way, she has and couldnt have no clue. Like I said, if she k ows LF is for example at Moat Caillin she should head there, but she does not know that he is even in the North.

And I have another question, how will LF take the North?

[Hippocras]

Which is why Jon would send her in Eastwatch(if he is LC at momment when she comes).

You dont see my point, Sansa doesnt know LF is on his way, she has and couldnt have no clue. Like I said, if she k ows LF is for example at Moat Caillin she should head there, but she does not know that he is even in the North.

And I have another question, how will LF take the North?

I believe I pretty specifically said she was not PLANNING to run in to Littlefinger. Why do you keep fighting this as if my argument is that she specifically INTENDS to run in to Littlefinger? That is not what I said.

All the way through season 5 we saw Littlefinger putting his pieces in place to bring a Vale army North. At this point it is imminent. They will be there early in season 6 I am quite sure, because if they were going to get there late, the setup would be season 6 not season 5.

Sansa runs away from Winterfell. Maybe or maybe not she has a bit of time with Brienne. They perhaps start towards the Wall which might seem like the best bet in the moment, or they might head to Umber or Manderly or some other Northern house. But before they can get far, there is Littlefinger's army.

It is not about her CHOOSING Littlefinger. It is about him being there. With an army that can either be for her or against her.

[dariopatke]

I believe I pretty specifically said she was not PLANNING to run in to Littlefinger. Why do you keep fighting this as if my argument is that she specifically INTENDS to run in to Littlefinger? That is not what I said.

All the way through season 5 we saw Littlefinger putting his pieces in place to bring a Vale army North. At this point it is imminent. They will be there early in season 6 I am quite sure, because if they were going to get there late, the setup would be season 6 not season 5.

Sansa runs away from Winterfell. Maybe or maybe not she has a bit of time with Brienne. They perhaps start towards the Wall which might seem like the best bet in the moment, or they might head to Umber or Manderly or some other Northern house. But before they can get far, there is Littlefinger's army.

It is not about her CHOOSING Littlefinger. It is about him being there. With an army that can either be for her or against her.

The only thing I dont get is why would they start going south? Only if they are going to Manderlys, but I find that risky.

Big problem is that they can hardly run because they leave traces in snow. The best thing is to make a hard run on Kingsroad, if hey turn from road they are caught.

[Grail King]

Or you and GC had the same odd interpretation (which was utterly unperceived by too great a majority). Lena Heady once said she played the sept scene as if Cersei wanted Jaime, but that's not how that scene came across. So you really can't go by what the actors say. Their comments don't always match what actually made the cut and was depicted on screen. Hell, even the director's comments don't always match up.

Moreover, the dialog between Pod and Brienne regarding Sansa contradicts this assertion/interpretation. No indication is made that Brienne picked up any sense of Sansa wanting to come with her. Brienne even says, "Sansa's in danger even if she doesn't realize it." But if Sansa had conveyed to Brienne that she wanted to escape Littlefinger but knew she couldn't, that would imply that she had an awareness of the danger she was in personally. 

Also, why give me a link I already posted myself? The article itself states that GC was giving her perspective on the scene. That doesn't make it canon.

The link was for someone else, my touch pad was sensitive.

I think many people are making a mistake as are you; IMO, stop focusing on Sansa's  dialogue 100 %, watch her facial, eye and body expressions we need to remember book Sansa is a 90 + % internal character they can't do internal in film unless they use flashback or the actors convey through facial and body expressions which again in MHO Sophie Turner is doing quite well.

Inside the inn, Brienne foolishly outs Sansa, Sansa listens to LF and Brienne, Sansa states she saw Brienne at the wedding bowing to the King, Brienne says we were both there, sometimes we don't have a choice, Sansa and sometimes we do, Sansa QUICK LOOK to the two Vale Knights behind and to the left of Brienne, Sansa says you should leave, Brienne quick glance and fights her way out of the inn.

It's NOT just dialogue, it's also the actor's expressions and body language we need to watch.

Again I stated my interpretation either the night of airing or later in one of the other topics but well before that article came out and I was shocked I got that scene correct.

 

ETAI am not stating anything about Sansa wanting to go with Brienne, I'm stating Sansa was telling her to leave because she ( Brienne ) was inches to being killed and it was all done with talk and Sansa's eye and facial expressions, that is how she warned Brienne.

[Hippocras]

The only thing I dont get is why would they start going south? Only if they are going to Manderlys, but I find that risky.

Big problem is that they can hardly run because they leave traces in snow. The best thing is to make a hard run on Kingsroad, if hey turn from road they are caught.

Why would the Vale army necessarily come from the South? Seems to me whoever won, Stannis or the Boltons, Littlefinger always planned to take them by surprise. By land they would be noticed long before getting to Winterfell. IMO more likely that they come by boat across the bay. They may land anywhere between White Harbour and the Dreadfort.

[Grail King]

nope. I mean, she might. But it would a bit dumb as that is the first place Ramsay would look.

Also that is very far. I think the Vale army is closer at hand so even if she were headed to the Wall she would meet them first.

Sansa some how has to make Ramsey think she's going to the Wall; how she does this or if she does; is the question.

Me I'm torn between her going north and the Umbers protect her, or she doubles back and hides in the crypt of Winterfell.

[FreeParking]

For what it is worth Grail King, I read the scene the same way you did. The way the "I think you should leave" line read to me was basically saying "You better get out of here before things go badly for you."

[sapphire_lion]

I think many people are making a mistake as are you; IMO, stop focusing on Sansa's  dialogue 100 %, watch her facial, eye and body expressions we need to remember book Sansa is a 90 + % internal character they can't do internal in film unless they use flashback or the actors convey through facial and body expressions which again in MHO Sophie Turner is doing quite well.

It's NOT just dialogue, it's also the actor's expressions and body language we need to watch.

FFS. I've never implied or believed that the look would be just dialog. How does that even make sense, btw? I was looking at Sansa's facial expressions and body language. Thanks.

My personal opinion is that Sophie did an awful job conveying said look. A great deal of people have no idea such a look was ever expressed. That's a failure on Sophie's part (imo). But I understand that you disagree. 

ETAI am not stating anything about Sansa wanting to go with Brienne, I'm stating Sansa was telling her to leave because she ( Brienne ) was inches to being killed and it was all done with talk and Sansa's eye and facial expressions, that is how she warned Brienne.

Great. Because the first time this scene was referenced in this thread it was stated that "although according to the script, Sansa's was supposed to shoot a look to Brienne to imply that she wanted to go with her, but couldn't, and was warning her to get away while she could". Then another poster asked, "It said that in the script?" To which you gave an affirmative answer and discussed the look. All I was trying to clarify was that there is nothing to indicate that it was written in the script that Sansa had wanted to go with Brienne.

[Hippocras]

Well, I'm in the camp that believes Sophie did convey that she was rejecting Brienne more because she knew Littlefinger would never allow it and would probably kill Brienne than because she didn't want her services. She looked extremely interested when Brienne told her story, then very calculating when Littlefinger started to trash talk Brienne. Sansa knows Littlefinger is dangerous. She figured out Brienne was in danger and sent her away to try to save her.

[sapphire_lion]

Well, I'm in the camp that believes Sophie did convey that she was rejecting Brienne more because she knew Littlefinger would never allow it and would probably kill Brienne than because she didn't want her services. She looked extremely interested when Brienne told her story, then very calculating when Littlefinger started to trash talk Brienne. Sansa knows Littlefinger is dangerous. She figured out Brienne was in danger and sent her away to try to save her.

Sansa refused to have a word alone with Brienne, which is understandable, but she followed that up with an accusatory, “I saw you at Joffrey’s wedding bowing to the king.” When Brienne stated that, “Sometimes we don’t have a choice.” Sansa responded with a pointed, “And sometimes we do.” Which is the sort of response that would likely discourage a rescuer.  In that moment she’s affirming that she has a choice and that she’s making it. Or at least that’s how Brienne read it (and the majority of the audience for that matter).

Brienne later states, “Sansa's in danger even if she doesn't realize it." So whatever hints Sansa supposedly threw at Brienne regarding Brienne’s safety, Brienne remained unconvinced that Sansa was aware of the danger she faced herself.

[Hippocras]

Sansa refused to have a word alone with Brienne, which is understandable, but she followed that up with an accusatory, “I saw you at Joffrey’s wedding bowing to the king.” When Brienne stated that, “Sometimes we don’t have a choice.” Sansa responded with a pointed, “And sometimes we do.” Which is the sort of response that would likely discourage a rescuer.  In that moment she’s affirming that she has a choice and that she’s making it. Or at least that’s how Brienne read it (and the majority of the audience for that matter).

 

Brienne later states, “Sansa's in danger even if she doesn't realize it." So whatever hints Sansa supposedly threw at Brienne regarding Brienne’s safety, Brienne remained unconvinced that Sansa was aware of the danger she faced herself.

 

 

 

It is entirely probable that Sansa did not communicate to Brienne why she was sending her away...after all, Littlefinger was right there, staring right at her. It needed to read like absolute rejection. 

It was not about Brienne realizing Sansa actually would like her help, it was about us, the audience realizing what she was doing, which was making a situation-based calculation.

[sapphire_lion]

 

It is entirely probable that Sansa did not communicate to Brienne why she was sending her away...after all, Littlefinger was right there, staring right at her. It needed to read like absolute rejection. 

It was not about Brienne realizing Sansa actually would like her help, it was about us, the audience realizing what she was doing, which was making a situation-based calculation.

Sure. Except most of the audience didn't realize it. Which suggests there was a failure in execution. 

[Hippocras]

 

Sure. Except most of the audience didn't realize it. Which suggests there was a failure in execution. 

 

Maybe. but the audience generally struggles sometimes with the more sublte moments I find. To me it was clear.

[sapphire_lion]

Maybe. but the audience generally struggles sometimes with the more sublte moments I find. To me it was clear.

That excuse can only go so far. Is there a section of the audience that will always struggle with subtle moments? Yes. Of course. But when the overwhelming majority is unable to detect/perceive what you are meaning to suggest, even with foreknowledge and repeated viewings, you have a problem.

[Grail King]

Sansa refused to have a word alone with Brienne, which is understandable, but she followed that up with an accusatory, “I saw you at Joffrey’s wedding bowing to the king.” When Brienne stated that, “Sometimes we don’t have a choice.” Sansa responded with a pointed, “And sometimes we do.” Which is the sort of response that would likely discourage a rescuer.  In that moment she’s affirming that she has a choice and that she’s making it. Or at least that’s how Brienne read it (and the majority of the audience for that matter).

 

Brienne later states, “Sansa's in danger even if she doesn't realize it." So whatever hints Sansa supposedly threw at Brienne regarding Brienne’s safety, Brienne remained unconvinced that Sansa was aware of the danger she faced herself.

 

 

 

I think you missed the quick glanced she gave to those two Knights behind her and she told her she should leave, then B elbowed her way out.

Sansa did warn her and Sophie did it right in my opinion.