Robb stark letter plays key role for jon ?

[ser gerold]

iam sure that jon will be back.when reading adwd i stumbled upon the passage where mormonts raven says "king" once and again says " jon snow".As jon recalls that the bird never said his full name before.It means two things , one is jon the true king to sit on the iron throne and the second thing is may be lady mormont and mallisters along with glover would show up on the wall holding robb's later to make him king as he is free from his vows once ressurected.only manderly knows rickon is alive and he is far away storm bound.So jon may become king this way in the books.

[Ice Turtle]

Two nice topics about King Jon foreshadowing:

Thought I always wondered if they weren't fulfilled just by Jon being born a king.

People often claim that that Jon would never usurp Rickon but he may not learn about him being alive before he learns about the will.

 

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Jon's journey is from humble beginnings to the King of Westeros, but there is a progression

Bastard of Winterfell Jon Snow > Brother of the Night's Watch Jon Snow > Lord Commander Lord Snow > King in the North/ King of the Trident Jon Stark > King of Westeros Viserys "Jon" Targaryen

[John Doe]

Or he's the Night's King 2.0

[Lord Wraith]

Or he's the Night's King 2.0

 

Someone has to make peace with the Others.

[dariopatke]

Or he's the Night's King 2.0

I actually think that Wall was built by men AND others. All 13 commanders were like Nights King,marring with others, but humans got sick of them, cleaned Wall from their presence and made it like it was only 13 LC who was sacrificingbso poeple never know about the deal. If this happens, then when the new peace is brokered, new LC will have others at Wall, perhaps a wife too. If that is Jon, he will be NK.

[Lord Friendzone]

On ‎4‎. ‎1‎. ‎2016 at 11:17 PM, King Viserys Targaryen IV said:

Jon's journey is from humble beginnings to the King of Westeros, but there is a progression

Bastard of Winterfell Jon Snow > Brother of the Night's Watch Jon Snow > Lord Commander Lord Snow > King in the North/ King of the Trident Jon Stark > King of Westeros Viserys "Jon" Targaryen

Possible until that. While he might be a king in the end and embracing Targaryen surname. At this point he'll have some emotional connection to them, not stronger than Starks...but he wil nevertheless.

We talked about this before, but even if they ever figured it out his name that was going to be given by Rhaegar(Lyanna might've known that). I doubt he'll change his name from Jon to Viserys just like that and it's not even necessary.  All he needs potentialy is his surname from Snow/Stark to Targaryen for example...if he wants to rule or is meant to do it. Doesn't need to change his name and in fact since he might find out that Ned gave it to him. He'll keep it as to honor Ned/Stark part of him.

[RoamingRonin]

On 1/4/2016 at 10:59 AM, ser gerold said:

iam sure that jon will be back.when reading adwd i stumbled upon the passage where mormonts raven says "king" once and again says " jon snow".As jon recalls that the bird never said his full name before.It means two things , one is jon the true king to sit on the iron throne and the second thing is may be lady mormont and mallisters along with glover would show up on the wall holding robb's later to make him king as he is free from his vows once ressurected.only manderly knows rickon is alive and he is far away storm bound.So jon may become king this way in the books.

If he is Rhaegar's son then he is a king. He doesn't have to sit the throne to have the title -- just look at Stannis. It's speculated that the raven calling him king is Bran. Since the raven has never called his full name before, it's likely that another person is in the raven at that point.

On 1/5/2016 at 9:13 PM, Lord Wraith said:

Someone has to make peace with the Others.

Someone has to lead the Others. Only a black brother of the night's watch can open the black gate.

[tallTale]

19 minutes ago, RoamingRonin said:

 

Someone has to lead the Others. Only a black brother of the night's watch can open the black gate.

I truly believe the Others are looking for Jon, potentially to lead them.

Problem is the Others are cold blooded murderers. They don't have any redeeming qualities other than to be able to fight. I see Jon being eventually forced to choose between joining them as the next NK and perhaps peace or all out war with the Others.He'll choose whichever side is not on the Others IMO.

So then the next question is: why do the Others want Jon? does he have some super Warg ability to control wights? 

[Jak Scaletongue]

On 2016-01-04 at 9:59 AM, ser gerold said:

iam sure that jon will be back.when reading adwd i stumbled upon the passage where mormonts raven says "king" once and again says " jon snow".As jon recalls that the bird never said his full name before.It means two things , one is jon the true king to sit on the iron throne and the second thing is may be lady mormont and mallisters along with glover would show up on the wall holding robb's later to make him king as he is free from his vows once ressurected.only manderly knows rickon is alive and he is far away storm bound.So jon may become king this way in the books.

I've always thought it would be funny if the big twist in Robb's will was that he didn't disinherit Sansa!  Just added some wording making it impossible for her husband (any husband, but clearly aimed at Tyrion) to take the power...

But, just funny - I don't think it's likely or plausible or any of that good stuff.  Just highly amusing!  It certainly would send this forum into a tailspin!

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

52 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Possible until that. While he might be a king in the end and embracing Targaryen surname. At this point he'll have some emotional connection to them, not stronger than Starks...but he wil nevertheless.

We talked about this before, but even if they ever figured it out his name that was going to be given by Rhaegar(Lyanna might've known that). I doubt he'll change his name from Jon to Viserys just like that and it's not even necessary.  All he needs potentialy is his surname from Snow/Stark to Targaryen for example...if he wants to rule or is meant to do it. Doesn't need to change his name and in fact since he might find out that Ned gave it to him. He'll keep it as to honor Ned/Stark part of him.

If Jon becomes King, it will most likely be part of a alliance with Daenerys (I can't see him gaining the South's approval otherwise, and Jon is not going to take the Iron Throne by force). As part of that alliance with the continuation of the Targaryen legacy.

 

One, Jon will need to provide his "credentials" IE, the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna being married, anything he finds in the crypt and his given Targaryen name. This will be necessary for Daenerys to believe him.

Two, Daenerys considers her brother and herself as a direct continuation of the Targaryen and specifically Aerys' line. That makes her brother King Viserys III, and making Jon; Viserys IV.

 

I am not saying that Jon is going to go around using this name, he will always be Jon Snow/Stark in his heart. But for the history books and for Royal pageantry and pomp and circumstance, he will Viserys IV Targaryen.

[RainGhost]

I can't imagine Robb's will having any effect on Jon, except giving him the Stark name i.e. giving him more credibility amongst the northern lords. But this may or may not be rendered irrelevant anyway when it's revealed his father was Rhaegar. It probably just serves as some motivation for Glover and Mormont to continue fighting for the Starks, as they may or may not know that Bran and Rickon are alive. Dead men can't become kings, not even walking dead men (although a walking dead man could probably become the second Night's King if he wanted to).

[Lord Friendzone]

On ‎29‎. ‎1‎. ‎2016 at 5:06 PM, King Viserys Targaryen IV said:

If Jon becomes King, it will most likely be part of a alliance with Daenerys (I can't see him gaining the South's approval otherwise, and Jon is not going to take the Iron Throne by force). As part of that alliance with the continuation of the Targaryen legacy.

 

One, Jon will need to provide his "credentials" IE, the story of Rhaegar and Lyanna being married, anything he finds in the crypt and his given Targaryen name. This will be necessary for Daenerys to believe him.

Two, Daenerys considers her brother and herself as a direct continuation of the Targaryen and specifically Aerys' line. That makes her brother King Viserys III, and making Jon; Viserys IV.

 

I am not saying that Jon is going to go around using this name, he will always be Jon Snow/Stark in his heart. But for the history books and for Royal pageantry and pomp and circumstance, he will Viserys IV Targaryen.

Of course Targaryen surname holds a better value in the south than Stark. If he wants to rule and that is a big if...so far it would seem really out his character to pursue Iron Throne in any way, shape or form. Besides not really looking forward to this kind of ending. As much as I would love romance, this is a bit neat,cliche and happy for my taste.

Of course somehow he will or has to prove it, but then again evidence might naturally comes out that it would be undeniable. He might never tell anyone and it would be only for himself. It would be a bit of a clusterfuck, but it can happen. A lot of things to consider. 

Their surname is all he needs and be acknowledged by Daeny via evidence and whatever that might be. His potential Targaryen name is absolutely not needed and would not convince Dany of anything. If evidence like combination of Rhaegar's will, wedding cloak and harp is good enough, he doesn't need the name. I don't see any logic behind this. Daeny would be happy either way. No need to take on even their name...that seems a bit of fanfiction to please Targ fans.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

1 minute ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Of course Targaryen surname holds a better value in the south than Stark. If he wants to rule and that is a big if...so far it would seem really out his character to pursue Iron Throne in any way, shape or form. Besids not really looking forward to this kind of ending. As much as  I would love romance, this is a bit neat and happy for my taste. We'll see about the new Jon. Of course somehow he has to prove, but then again evidence might naturally comes out that it would be undeniable. He might never tell anyone and it would be only for himself. It would be a bit of a clusterfuck, but it can happen. A lot of things to consider. 

Their surname is all he needs and be acknowledged by Daeny via evidence. His potential Targaryen name is absolutely not needed. IF evidence is good enough, he doesn't need the name. I don't see any logic behind this. Daeny would be happy either way. No need to take on even their name...that seems a bit of fanfiction to please Targ fans.

I dont think this will be a happy ever after love story, I think this is a political marriage to prevent further war and to unite the two sides after the battle with the Others.

Jon will not want the Iron Throne, he will join with Daenerys and accept it to unite the realm.

[The Bold Wolf]

Where is "Viserys" coming from for a Targaryen name for Jon? Did I miss something in the books that alluded that Rhaegar wanted to call Jon "Viserys"? or is this some fan fic?

The only thing that stopped Jon from Stannis proclaiming him a Stark, was his vows to the Night's Watch. Technically speaking, his watch is ended with his death, so when he's revived, he can be made Stark by Robb's will, and thus being proclaimed King in the North by the Northmen, like Robb was, whether he wants it or not. If he believes its his duty to be King in the North, then I think he will do it.  

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

49 minutes ago, The Bold Wolf said:

Where is "Viserys" coming from for a Targaryen name for Jon? Did I miss something in the books that alluded that Rhaegar wanted to call Jon "Viserys"? or is this some fan fic?

Rhaegar named his three kids after the original three heads of the Dragon: Aegon, Rhaeneys and Visenya

Viserys is the only male version of Visenya that we have seen in the books (other than Viserion the dragon).

Now, it is possible that Jon would have a different male version of Visenya, and GRRM has purposefully not shown the name before because he is saving it for Jon.

But, basically Rhaegar would have assumed that Jon would be a girl and named her Visenya, but knowing there was a chance that the baby was a boy, he told Lyanna that Viserys should be the boy's name.

[StarkofWinterfell]

9 minutes ago, King Viserys Targaryen IV said:

Rhaegar named his three kids after the original three heads of the Dragon: Aegon, Rhaeneys and Visenya

Viserys is the only male version of Visenya that we have seen in the books (other than Viserion the dragon).

Now, it is possible that Jon would have a different male version of Visenya, and GRRM has purposefully not shown the name before because he is saving it for Jon.

But, basically Rhaegar would have assumed that Jon would be a girl and named her Visenya, but knowing there was a chance that the baby was a boy, he told Lyanna that Viserys should be the boy's name.

From a pure story-telling perspective, this would be a horrible choice. 99% of the audience will not know this but they will know of Daenerys' brother Viserys and how crazy he was. 

Please stop spouting this as fact when it's purely a theory of yours.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

3 minutes ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

From a pure story-telling perspective, this would be a horrible choice. 99% of the audience will not know this but they will know of Daenerys' brother Viserys and how crazy he was. 

Please stop spouting this as fact when it's purely a theory of yours.

Of course it is a theory. This WHOLE PLACE IS A COLLECTION OF THEORIES.

It is a theory backed up by evidence.

Why name 2 of your kids after the Three Heads of the Dragon but change the the last name... when you are trying to re-create the three heads of the dragon?

 

[StarkofWinterfell]

Just now, King Viserys Targaryen IV said:

Of course it is a theory. This WHOLE PLACE IS A COLLECTION OF THEORIES.

It is a theory back up by evidence.

Why name 2 of your kids after the Three Heads of the Dragon but change the the last name... when you are trying to re-create the three heads of the dragon?

 

I'm not, but you have to understand that many people won't get this connection and if Jon were to be renamed Viserys, then this would give the audience misperception about him because they will be thinking of the only other Viserys they know, who by the way, wasn't a good guy.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Just now, StarkofWinterfell said:

I'm not, but you have to understand that many people won't get this connection and if Jon were to be renamed Viserys, then this would give the audience misperception about him because they will be thinking of the only other Viserys they know, who by the way, wasn't a good guy.

Wait, so people reading 7 books that all contain POVs from Jon, are suddenly going to be confused about who Jon is because fof his Targaryen name?

The whole book is filled with subtle things that most people wont get. With out the internet who many people will get R+L=J? OR A+J=T? or the Gravedigger is the Hound, etc....

Of course Viserys wasn't a good guy. But having Jon named Viserys (or another male version of Visenya) is not naming him after Viserys III, it is after Visenya.