LBGTQ - 4 out of 5 cats prefer lesbians

[Sivin]

2 hours ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

 

LOL. Unless Canada annexed Arizona, not Canadian. To be honest, while I've heard these programs mentioned by friends on Facebook and seen articles on the web, I haven't paid much attention to the details since I didn't know anyone who might have need of them. I believe I know someone who knows of them and can inquire.

ETA: looks like I screwed up the quote function, using tapatalk on my phone.

ETA2: I happened to spot this. Don't know if there is anything similar near you

http://m.tucson.com/news/tucson-va-launches-clinic-for-transgender-veterans/article_69a93024-f314-50e0-8c49-e3e476df0c5b.html?mobile_touch=true

Wow. I have seriously thought you were a well-informed Canadian for like literally 3 years (about the time I got banned and then started stalking the forums anonymously).

That's an interesting link, and I don't know of any similar operations near where I am (the shit-heart of Tennessee).

Mostly unrelated, but a line in that article made me irrationally angry (not for the first time).

Quote

" A growing body of research shows the military is a magnet for biological males with gender issues who often try to quell their inner conflict through “hypermasculine” pursuits, said Nadine Cole, a clinical psychologist on the local VA treatment team. "

This is something that annoys me to no end. I was actually asked this by my therapist while I was in the Army, the 2nd person I ever told, and despite what I would call my generally cool and collected self I almost walked out of the room.

I'm sure that factoid is true of some, but I didn't join the Army to 'prove I'm a man' or whatever. I joined the Army with the knowledge that having "Honorably Discharged Veteran" on my resume would make just about every facet of my life marginally easier in the long run and that I could afford to go to college afterwards without financially ruining myself. So, I feel insulted whenever it's implied that I joined in a display of machismo or to prove something to someone (especially myself).

Sorry, little rant.

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Robin is talking about the standalone clinics for transgender vets available at a couple of VA hospitals.  There's one in Tuscon and one in Cleveland and there might be one or two others elsewhere in the country.  For the most part, though, you'd be going through the primary care provider you are assigned to.  Most VA centers will likely have some sort of speciality primary care unit, like women's clinics (I've found these to be the best and I'm hopeful you can access these).  

Reading through your comments, Sivin, I'm a bit concerned about your plan to schedule doctor appointments on Saturdays only.  The VA already has a problem retaining doctors so in perfect circumstances, you're likely to have a change in primary care doctors frequently anyway.  You're almost certain to not have the same doctor each visit if you only go Saturdays (and that's assuming your assigned primary care clinic is even open on Saturdays).  

You may have already worked all this out so this advice would be moot, but I'd really recommend seeing if you can adjust the days of the week you can visit the doctor.  If you haven't done so already, get assigned to a primary care clinic and doctor as soon as possible.  **This is the person who will be the gatekeeper to your access for everything in the VA health care system and you might need to try out more than one doctor before you find one you click with.  My personal opinion is that in the long run, it's better to have a doctor who isn't going to require you to inform them of the regulations every time you try to access care.  

ETA:**sorry, just reread your post and saw you've already been assigned to a PCP.  

Tuscon and Cleveland? One almost wonders if they're established in such places out of malicious intent.

Money, honey. As long as the hormones are in the proper dosage and the 'scripts are refillable, I don't care who's writing them. It could be Ted Cruz or Rush Limbaugh for all I care. I can only reliably go on Saturdays for work reasons, and the money is too good for me to bother letting an outside influence... well, influence that. I've already established that the V.A. hospital here treats on Saturdays, they're just obviously harder appointments to get. But I'm willing/able to schedule well in advance.

Money first, then I'll buy my happiness.

[karaddin]

Transdermal is a cream, the estrogen is just absorbed through the skin.  I know injections are much more popular in the US than here in Aus, I wasn't sure whether they were IV or IM though (intravenous/into the veins vs intramuscular/into the muscle).  The implant is a tiny capsule that's inserted into fatty tissue at the top of the buttocks via a 1mm incision, but it's super uncommon here and I've not heard of it being a thing in the US.  The endocrinologist I'm seeing gets the pellets done at a compounding chemist as the drug company that used to make them either closed the factory or went out of business, can't recall which.  There may be another supplier that is available for the US though and I might see if I can ask around.  

Generally speaking starting on any other method would be preferred by doctors though, as if you develop any complications it can be immediately stopped and out of your system soon enough, the implant is in and active for 6 months.  

 

ETA: Ok does sound like pellets are "available" in the US, but only doctor I could see is John Odea in Southern Cali, so its probably not very widespread.  Also more expensive.

[Sivin]

Re-reading my post it seems I worded it quite poorly. I know what transdermal is I just didn't know it was an option. As for the implant I was curious about whether they actually made an incision or injected the device with a large needle. You've answered that question, however.

As for I.V. vs I.M., I assumed injections would be I.M., but in pretty much every video I've watched on the YouTube the girls refer to them as I.V. I'm sure that's just ignorance on their part, but I couldn't be sure. Am I just horrible at google, or is it kinda difficult to find reliable and clear information?

 

[Robin Of House Hill]

11 hours ago, Sivin said:

Wow. I have seriously thought you were a well-informed Canadian for like literally 3 years (about the time I got banned and then started stalking the forums anonymously).

That's an interesting link, and I don't know of any similar operations near where I am (the shit-heart of Tennessee).

Mostly unrelated, but a line in that article made me irrationally angry (not for the first time).

This is something that annoys me to no end. I was actually asked this by my therapist while I was in the Army, the 2nd person I ever told, and despite what I would call my generally cool and collected self I almost walked out of the room.

I'm sure that factoid is true of some, but I didn't join the Army to 'prove I'm a man' or whatever. I joined the Army with the knowledge that having "Honorably Discharged Veteran" on my resume would make just about every facet of my life marginally easier in the long run and that I could afford to go to college afterwards without financially ruining myself. So, I feel insulted whenever it's implied that I joined in a display of machismo or to prove something to someone (especially myself).

Sorry, little rant.

Tuscon and Cleveland? One almost wonders if they're established in such places out of malicious intent.

Money, honey. As long as the hormones are in the proper dosage and the 'scripts are refillable, I don't care who's writing them. It could be Ted Cruz or Rush Limbaugh for all I care. I can only reliably go on Saturdays for work reasons, and the money is too good for me to bother letting an outside influence... well, influence that. I've already established that the V.A. hospital here treats on Saturdays, they're just obviously harder appointments to get. But I'm willing/able to schedule well in advance.

Money first, then I'll buy my happiness.

Ha!  I'm not polite enough to be a Canadian.   As it happens, I moved to Tucson last December,  I don't use the VA for any of my medical care.  My only contact with them was, years ago, to establish my claim for benefits due to a service connected injury.  Oddly enough, despite Arizona being a fairly conservative state, Tucson is pretty good.  Before moving here, I learned from other trans people in the city, that they thought it was great.  BTW, while I don't know how true it is today, I do know that back in the 70s, I knew trans women who had joined the military to stave off the tide toward transition, that they were still fighting.  I never felt that way.  I joined to beat the draft.  It was the height of the Vietnam War and "infantry" didn't appeal to me.

11 hours ago, karaddin said:

Transdermal is a cream, the estrogen is just absorbed through the skin.  I know injections are much more popular in the US than here in Aus, I wasn't sure whether they were IV or IM though (intravenous/into the veins vs intramuscular/into the muscle).  The implant is a tiny capsule that's inserted into fatty tissue at the top of the buttocks via a 1mm incision, but it's super uncommon here and I've not heard of it being a thing in the US.  The endocrinologist I'm seeing gets the pellets done at a compounding chemist as the drug company that used to make them either closed the factory or went out of business, can't recall which.  There may be another supplier that is available for the US though and I might see if I can ask around.  

Generally speaking starting on any other method would be preferred by doctors though, as if you develop any complications it can be immediately stopped and out of your system soon enough, the implant is in and active for 6 months.  

 

ETA: Ok does sound like pellets are "available" in the US, but only doctor I could see is John Odea in Southern Cali, so its probably not very widespread.  Also more expensive.

Injections are IM.  That hasn't changed in all these years.

[Sivin]

Rock on, sistah-girl. Do you not get your meds from the V.A. because you have a better option, or... something else? If you don't mind me asking.

Otherwise, I'm curious to get your opinions on 'presentation' after I go full time.

I'm very sarcastic and deadpan, and I generally say nothing in groups until the perfect joke opportunity arises. One of my biggest fears is that I won't be able to operate socially as I do now, I'm actually quite fond of my monotone snarkiness and I know I won't be able to pull that off as a woman.

 

Meanwhile, I think I wanna do one of those over-the-years transition videos in 3 or 4 years but instead of setting it to an Abba song or whatever I want it to be to the theme of Jurassic Park or 48 Hours Mystery.

[Robin Of House Hill]

The last time I visited a VA installation was in the late 60s to get conformation regarding service connected injuries to determine what level of compensation I was due.  Quite honestly, I wasn't impressed with the medical staff.  They gave me the impression that they were there because they couldn't survive in private practice.  The only contact after that was in 1980 when I contacted the VA in Washington DC in an attempt to get them to provide SRS.  Didn't work.  Got a letter from the man in charge of the VA stating they wouldn't..  I was paying for my own meds at that point, until I left the New York area.  By then, I had a friend who worked in a hospital pharmacy who provided my hormones (which I discontinued when I was 57).  From 1985 till 2010, the only medical attention I got, was a visit to an emergency room to get a broken arm x-rayed and set.  When I turned 65, I went on medicare, but by then I was so deeply stealth that I wasn't eager to have any contact with the medical profession, as I was pretty sure they would figure things out.  Sure enough, when I had no choice but to go in due to torn tendons in my shoulders, which were extremely painful.  Sure enough, they figured it out.  Now that I've moved, I will be seeing a new doctor next month.  I would consider it a real achievement if I can "pass" when I see her.  Probably won't, but I can at least try.  The more I see of what is going on in the world, these days, the more I'm convinced that stealth is the only way for me to go.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Robin,

Obviously, I am not going to pretend like I understand all of the things that have happened in your life that have led to the conclusion that you need to be stealth in all aspects of your life. You are going to do what you feel you need to do to stay safe and sane, and I respect that.

I do worry, however, that in trying to keep a very significant part of your medical history from a doctor that is going to be physically examining you closely, you are setting yourself up for a lot of, potentially unnecessary, anxiety and disappointment (and, if you are successful, potentially degrading the level of medical care that you do receive). I did a quick google search on trans-friendly doctors in your state. I am not going to pretend that there are a ton of options, but it does appear that there are some, and I wonder if you might be better off trying to find a doctor that you actually might be comfortable telling your entire medical history to. 

[Robin Of House Hill]

7 hours ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said:

Robin,

Obviously, I am not going to pretend like I understand all of the things that have happened in your life that have led to the conclusion that you need to be stealth in all aspects of your life. You are going to do what you feel you need to do to stay safe and sane, and I respect that.

I do worry, however, that in trying to keep a very significant part of your medical history from a doctor that is going to be physically examining you closely, you are setting yourself up for a lot of, potentially unnecessary, anxiety and disappointment (and, if you are successful, potentially degrading the level of medical care that you do receive). I did a quick google search on trans-friendly doctors in your state. I am not going to pretend that there are a ton of options, but it does appear that there are some, and I wonder if you might be better off trying to find a doctor that you actually might be comfortable telling your entire medical history to. 

Nestor,

It goes beyond safe and sane. The question is, do I wish to be seen as a human being, or a different kind of human being?  As far as  potentially degrading the medical care I receive, I am uncertain whether you are referring to the possibility of not receiving needed care, because I've withheld information that would have enhanced care, or the doctor figuring it out and providing less than adequate care because they "disapproved."  The term "trans-friendly" is a bit off.  Most are involved in trans-specific medical care, such as HRT, etc.  I require none of that.  I need a doctor who can deal with hypertension, diabetes, arthritis and other afflictions of old folks.  If I don't need any trans-specific care, then my being trans need not be part of the conversation.  It's irrelevant.

[Weeping Sore]

An article calling bullshit on women being more sexually fluid than men:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/08/why-straight-men-have-sex-with-each-other.html

[Lily Valley]

21 hours ago, Weeping Sore said:

An article calling bullshit on women being more sexually fluid than men:

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/08/why-straight-men-have-sex-with-each-other.html

Good article.  I'd read the book.  I have a hard time calling stuff like this science, having had my rage hackles raised by the very narratives that this article is trying to refute.  I'm really glad someone is tearing those narratives down.

[Ormond]

Sorry, I personally don't find the arguments in that article very convincing.

One of the main reasons is that the article seems to be saying that those who say "women are more sexually fluid than men" are expecting ALL men to be less "fluid" than ALL women, which has never been the case. The idea is the women are on average more "fluid" than men, but as with everything else in psychology and human behavior, it's a continuum and there are plenty of men who are more "fluid" than the average woman, and vice versa.

The article also seems to be claiming that if the reasons for women on average being more fluid or "plastic" in their sexual behavior and interests than men is more the result of cultural factors than biological ones, that women really aren't more "fluid." That seems silly to me -- the data show the difference really exists. If you don't like biological theories explaining it, fine -- but that doesn't negate the data that at this point in western culture, women average out being more changeable in sexual interests than men are.

Finally, I largely disagree with the idea that this theory would have "trickled down into the broader culture so that men themselves know which claims have legitimacy." at this point. I think the concept of gender differences in sexual fluidity or plasticity has only been around in the scientific literature for less than 20 years, and I personally doubt that's long enough for it to have had a major impact on how average men and women think of themselves.

P.S. Oh, and the article also seems to imply that sexual fluidity or plasticity is just a matter of the gender of one's partners. But this is not just a matter of one's sexual orientation -- survey research also seems to show that women are more likely to say that the specific sexual activities they enjoy with a partner have changed over the years than men are -- so women average out as being more "fluid" in WHAT they like to do sexually, not just in WHO they like to do it with.

[karaddin]

I saw the article a few months ago and personally had pretty major issues with it too, although primarily different to Ormund. I don't think saying "hey it's OK you want to bone guys, that's totally not gay" helps homophobic attitudes, instead it reinforces that you don't want to be seen as gay and gives you an out.

I've got no issues with sexual fluidity, but it's occasionally finding someone outside of your orientation attractive or your orientation changing over time. If you reliably want to fuck the same sex but hide it bein behind "surfer types only, no homos" you're bi/pan/gay/something else not straight with a bunch of internalised homophobia causing denial.  And that may very well be bisexual but heteroromantic, who you can fuck and who you can love are different things.

[HexMachina]

NUS have told LGBT+ societies to abolish gay men's reps. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/22/nus-tells-lgbt-societies-to-abolish-gay-mens-reps-because-they-dont-face-oppression/

Quote

It says: “Misogyny, transphobia, racism and biphobia are often present in LGBT+ societies. This is unfortunately more likely to occur when the society is dominated by white cis gay men.”

The motion continues to call on LGBT societies at universities – many of whom have dedicated reps for lesbians, trans people, bi people and gay men – to abolish the role for gay men.

It continues: “The reps system exists to ensure that societies committees can always have a reserved place for groups which disproportionately face oppression within the LGBT+ community.

“Gay men do not face oppression as gay men within the LGBT+ community and do not need a reserved place on society committees.”

It goes on to “encourage LGBT+ Societies that have a gay men’s rep to drop the position”.

I'm not an expert or anything, and obviously you all understand these things a lot better than me. But this seems like a troubling decision

[TrackerNeil]

49 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

NUS have told LGBT+ societies to abolish gay men's reps. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/22/nus-tells-lgbt-societies-to-abolish-gay-mens-reps-because-they-dont-face-oppression/

I'm not an expert or anything, and obviously you all understand these things a lot better than me. But this seems like a troubling decision

I don't know all of the backstory here, but I think we see a good deal of internecine warfare among liberals, where each group is claiming the greatest pain and accusing the others of erasing their experiences, etc. The gay community is no different in this respect. I think the thing to do is to examine the specifics of each situation and judge only that situation. Well, there's something else we can all do, which is to remember that, when the rubber meets the road, we are all on the same side, even if we don't all have the same opinions.

[Robin Of House Hill]

On 3/2/2016 at 11:19 PM, Robin Of House Hill said:

It goes beyond safe and sane. The question is, do I wish to be seen as a human being, or a different kind of human being?  As far as  potentially degrading the medical care I receive, I am uncertain whether you are referring to the possibility of not receiving needed care, because I've withheld information that would have enhanced care, or the doctor figuring it out and providing less than adequate care because they "disapproved."  The term "trans-friendly" is a bit off.  Most are involved in trans-specific medical care, such as HRT, etc.  I require none of that.  I need a doctor who can deal with hypertension, diabetes, arthritis and other afflictions of old folks.  If I don't need any trans-specific care, then my being trans need not be part of the conversation.  It's irrelevant.

I just thought I'd mention how my doctor's appointment worked out, yesterday.  Not saying this approach as the only right way.  Just reporting how it wound up.  A moderate success, in that I didn't have to provide my old medical records.

From my Facebook post:

Quote

 

Okay, so here's the deal with my doctor's appointment, yesterday. Last year, after being forced to out myself, to several doctors, the Los Angeles Superior Court, City of New York, and State Department, in order to put my birth certificate, I decided, no more! My first decision was to not permit my medical records to be transferred to my new doctor they contained reference to my being transgender and that is wholly irrelevant to any medical condition for which I require, or am likely to require treatment. To forestall being asked to request the medical records, I prepared a thorough list of diagnoses, how I was being treated for them and any ongoing conditions that needed attention.

When I got there, yesterday, I had to fill out their new patient forms.Those forms included gynecological questions, such as the date of my last pelvic exam, etc. Although I could have made stuff up, I chose to leave those questions blank. If the doctor figured things out, she would instantly have known I was trying to hide something. Her knowing I was hiding something is more of a vulnerability, than her only suspecting it. She remarked on the fact that I hadn't listed dates for the examinations on the form and said, "I see you haven't had these. Do you prefer not to go looking for trouble?" I replied that I didn't like invasive exams. She seemed to accept that and didn't attempt to convince me otherwise. The rapport during my visit was quite good, At the end, she joked, "You ought to use moisturizer, out here, or you'll wind up looking like a lizard. Welcome to the desert."

I consider this a moderate success. No one gave any hint that they thought I was transgender. Had she asked me how old I was at the onset of menopause, I would have considered it a complete success. Now, I'm stuck with the thought that she might have not brought up a topic that I'd shown no inclination to discuss. Only time will tell.

This had started as an attempt to keep certain information out of my medical record, but grew to be more. Could someone who cannot really be considered to have cis-normative appearance, live stealth and remain undetected, even in this era of visibility and public awareness? Considering the deteriorating political conditions in this and other countries, I certainly hope so. Invisibility may wind up meaning survival.

 

 

[Weeping Sore]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 9:59 AM, karaddin said:

I saw the article a few months ago and personally had pretty major issues with it too, although primarily different to Ormund. I don't think saying "hey it's OK you want to bone guys, that's totally not gay" helps homophobic attitudes, instead it reinforces that you don't want to be seen as gay and gives you an out.

 

I think de-stigmatizing homosexual desires in the broader population/culture could help to defuse homophobia, particularly if we accept that some hatred/aversion/fear of gays is an externalization of the fear of being gay.

I also found the idea of culturally gay or queer to be an interesting topic, when you have James Franco claiming cultural gayness without being you know, actually gay.

If you have any homosexual desires and call yourself straight you're really closeted and need to come out, right? Just click your heels together and say "There's No Place Like Home" and you'll be whisked away to the open arms of the LGBT community. Or maybe it's a bit like letting Gay Jesus into your heart and being born again.

I would contend that the idea of a total transformation of the identity or a "coming home" to the true self is a kind of fantasy with a relation to religious conversion narratives, but you know, whatever works for people is fine with me. It's certainly a healthier narrative than nonstandard sexuality as an addiction like alcoholism.

To me, the best analogue for sexuality is "a taste". You can innately find something delicious. You can develop a taste for something. I mean, something you initially thought was disgusting could become your favorite. You can lose your taste for something over time. And some things are just never going to taste good to you no matter what. I recognize that this is not a very politically useful perspective, but that's my take.

 

[Robin Of House Hill]

I think it is easier to say humans are sexual.  Who one prefers may be either static or variable over the course of their lifetime.  The question is, would the same person's preference differ if there were no societal influence?

[karaddin]

I don't really want to get into it, I feel like it lets people enjoy their gay sex while continuing to be homophobic assholes but I'll drop it.

[Weeping Sore]

15 hours ago, Robin Of House Hill said:

I think it is easier to say humans are sexual.  Who one prefers may be either static or variable over the course of their lifetime.  The question is, would the same person's preference differ if there were no societal influence?

 

Let's take sardines. If society kept sending messages that eating sardines was a really bad and shameful practice, a lot of people might never try them. So they wouldn't even know that they really like sardines. Of course many people conforming to the societal pressure to avoid sardines actually wouldn't like sardines even if they did try them. And some, out of a desire to defy society's expectations and carve out a unique space for their identities, would eat and embrace sardines even though, deep down, they didn't really prefer sardines over other foods. And me, I really love sardines. But I maintain that I would still be an authentic me even if I didn't eat them for whatever reason.

14 hours ago, karaddin said:

I don't really want to get into it, I feel like it lets people enjoy their gay sex while continuing to be homophobic assholes but I'll drop it.

I respect your desire to let it drop; I'm sure you're right on one level. I'll submit that if enjoying the occasional gay sex were more acceptable and less identity-determining, these bros might feel less of a need to use a homophobic smokescreen.

[Robin Of House Hill]

On 3/29/2016 at 6:44 AM, Weeping Sore said:

 

Let's take sardines. If society kept sending messages that eating sardines was a really bad and shameful practice, a lot of people might never try them. So they wouldn't even know that they really like sardines. Of course many people conforming to the societal pressure to avoid sardines actually wouldn't like sardines even if they did try them. And some, out of a desire to defy society's expectations and carve out a unique space for their identities, would eat and embrace sardines even though, deep down, they didn't really prefer sardines over other foods. And me, I really love sardines. But I maintain that I would still be an authentic me even if I didn't eat them for whatever reason.

 

I hope you realize, that trying to wrap my brain around that, is a monumental task at my age.  What about those who won't eat sardines because they fear they'll like them, thus losing the benefits of belonging to a specific portion of society?  Far fetched?  I actually know of a real world case.  A trans man I know was told by a woman, "if you were a dyke, I'd be really attracted to you."  I guess she feared having her lesbian library card revoked.

(If I've missed something in the context of this discussion, and said something irrelevant, feel free to ignore it.)