NFL wild card 2015 continued: home is where the points aren't

[Howdyphillip]

It could be; I watched all of the 4th quarter.  But that play seemed a bit more boarder-line than, well, the Burfict one.  

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CYVFaiUWsAAWS2R.mp4

 

By NCAA rules, he would have been ejected from the game without question. By NFL rules, he speared an offensive player. By contrast, the Burfict hit wasn't nearly as egrigious, but it was still a foul as well.

[Mexal]

@Mexal Deadspin has a piece on it and its virtually impossible to call that there.  

ARTICLE 8. INITIATING CONTACT WITH THE CROWN OF THE HELMET. It is a foul if a runner or tackler initiates forcible contact by delivering a blow with the top/crown of his helmet against an opponent when both players are clearly outside the tackle box (an area extending from tackle to tackle and from three yards beyond the line of scrimmage to the offensive team’s end line). Incidental contact by the helmet of a runner or tackler against an opponent shall not be a foul.

Deadspin says that its the term "initiates" that is the problem.  And I agree.  What is he supposed to do?  NOT tackle him?  As Deads[in says "Shazier can’t be expected to shift space-time faster than an offensive player."

Other than that the Porter thing IS VERY FISHY and you are probably right that it was crazy that he was out there and that the Bengals got a penalty for it.  

Of course he's supposed to tackle him but he's supposed to go in with his shoulder and wrap him up. You cannot lead with the crown of your helmet and it's especially worse when he leads with the crown of his helmet the moment the player turns around after making a catch and leads with that crown of the helmet INTO HIS FACE! Watch the play man. There is nothing legal about it, let alone legal enough to call a fumble after the player is knocked out from it. And even if that's fine, how can you let the Steelers players sit there and dance around like they're fucking amazing when the player is on the ground and not moving with 10 medical personnel around him. That's a moment to pray not dance around on his grave.

ETA: Just watch the link of the play above and tell me he didn't lead with his helmet to a player who barely turned around. He "initiated".

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Now that is an aged reference.

 

Anyway I had already told the nfl I wouldn't be giving them or their sponsors any money any more. This game made it clear that the product they're producing isn't one I want to watch. People like 2055 or whatever the fuck his name is apparently want this kind of game. I do not.

 

Nictarion, mexal, I'm very sorry for this loss. I hope you know I was rooting for you guys. This game sucked.

Well they say you never forget your first, eh?

 

I completely understand your take here. If I had the willpower, I would join you. That game was as dirty a game as I have ever seen. 

 

Echo the condolences to our Bengals pals. Sorry you had to suffer through that loss, guys. I can't think of a worse way to lose a game. 

[Rockroi]

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CYVFaiUWsAAWS2R.mp4

 

By NCAA rules, he would have been ejected from the game without question. By NFL rules, he speared an offensive player. By contrast, the Burfict hit wasn't nearly as egrigious, but it was still a foul as well.

I watched the clip and so I saw the play in real-time and then in slow motion.  I have to say that - to me - its not nearly as clear as you guys are making it out.  It looks like, at first, he makes a good tackle, and then on replay (and really only then) can you see clearly that he dropped his head.  

I wish I could just say "Yeah, filthy dirty" and be done with it, but I can't.  I can absoluetly see the ref not seeing the penalty due to the speed and giving Shazer the benefit of the doubt due to the speed of the contact etc.  

I know you guys are very certain about this belief, but I am giving the refs the benefit of the doubt here.  I could be very wrong.  

I still think the Burfict hit was worse, but now we are just arguing minutia.  Brown didn't have the ball and Burfict had 3-4 steps to pull up.  Shazier was tackling a guy with the ball.  Yes, he hit him with the crown of his head, but that did not look NEARLY as intentional as Burficts when you include the fact that he was hitting a guy without the ball and had 3-4 steps to pull up.  

NFL network then replayed the Jones-Porter fiasco and I will agree that Porter should probably not be out there.  I think Jones got the flag because when he lunges at Porter, there is a ref between them and he pushes the ref.  That ref threw the flag.  

 

[Kalbear]

As to what should have happened - ejections. Ejections a whole lot earlier. Ejections of munchak, ejections of whichever Bengal hit the receiver too hard, ejections of basically the entire fucking steeler coaching staff, and suspensions for the next game.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And the season of injuries narrative grinds on. Look at all the stalwarts that went down today. From Maclin and Watt in the early game, to Brown, Rapelisburger and Bernard in the late one. 

[Mexal]

And the season of injuries narrative grinds on. Look at all the stalwarts that went down today. From Maclin and Watt in the early game, to Brown, Rapelisburger and Bernard in the late one. 

Yea and Peko, Reggie Nelson and Dre Kirkpatrick as well. All injured, none of which returned to the game.

Like Kal, I'm having a hard time supporting the NFL after a game like this. I don't know what I'm going to do but I'm finding myself give less shits than I did before. I just can't rely on the NFL to care as much about their product as the fans. There is never any accountability. How do you have the same ref of a game between the same teams that resulted in $150k in fines? I'm disgusted with the Bengals but so much more with the NFL.

[Ramsay B.]

Pacman's take on the situation. Jerry Porter, lol.

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/1/10/10743886/pacman-jones-posts-video-of-himself-screaming-about-refs

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I watched the clip and so I saw the play in real-time and then in slow motion.  I have to say that - to me - its not nearly as clear as you guys are making it out.  It looks like, at first, he makes a good tackle, and then on replay (and really only then) can you see clearly that he dropped his head.  

I wish I could just say "Yeah, filthy dirty" and be done with it, but I can't.  I can absoluetly see the ref not seeing the penalty due to the speed and giving Shazer the benefit of the doubt due to the speed of the contact etc.  

I know you guys are very certain about this belief, but I am giving the refs the benefit of the doubt here.  I could be very wrong.  

I still think the Burfict hit was worse, but now we are just arguing minutia.  Brown didn't have the ball and Burfict had 3-4 steps to pull up.  Shazier was tackling a guy with the ball.  Yes, he hit him with the crown of his head, but that did not look NEARLY as intentional as Burficts when you include the fact that he was hitting a guy without the ball and had 3-4 steps to pull up.  

I agree that the Burfict hit of Brown was worse, but I thought Shazier's hit was pretty blatant as well. He not only dropped his head, he then drove it up into Bernard's face. Yeah, it happened quickly, but Shazier hits him from his blindside, and took at least two steps before lowering his head. That looked like an obvious flag to me. 

[Mexal]

It's fast but like the Williams hit, which was perfectly legal, they need to err on the side of caution. Or make it reviewable. College does that so not sure why the NFL think it's ok.

[Ramsay B.]

I agree that the Burfict hit of Brown was worse, but I thought Shazier's hit was pretty blatant. he not only dropped his head, he then drove it up into Bernard's face. Yeah, it happened quickly, but Shazier hits him from his blindside, and took at least two steps before lowering his head. That looked like an obvious flag to me. 

I also thought that play was an obvious personal foul, but I got into a crazy argument with 2 of my friends that totally saw the play differentely than me. I mean when I saw it live I thought he led with his helmet but some people didn't just didn't see that for whatever reason. Perspectives are crazy.

[Ice Queen]

I just can't get behind this as being the ref's fault.  These guys KNOW what's a penalty and what's not (unless its PI) and they should not have to NEED TO BE REMINDED That if they fuck around they will be penalized.  

@Mexal:

Ryan Shazier spears Gio Bernard ...

I only heard this play on the radio; did not see it and the call on the radio was shit.  BUT its possible that the rule changes if its a runner v. a defenseless receiver.  If Bernard was a runner OR of he was a reciever who then BECAME a runner (that is a thing) that would explain it.  

Brown was ALWAYS defenseless.  

Joey Porter turns around after Burfict pats Brown ... 

I think anything Burfict does after, like, the 3rd quarter, was suspect.  I think he patted Brown to get a rise out of the Steelers.  The guy is a punk.  BUT Jones' penalty was NOT for that play (I mis-identified it earlier); it was for pushing a ref (I ... I think).  Porter was questionable - he may have had a right to be out there (to tend to Brown) or he may have been trying to egg them on (knowing Porter, I would not put it past him).  But I cannot excuse what the Benagls did and I can't just heap that on the refs.  (and I know you are not excusing the Bengals either).  

 

Ben Rothelsberger raped a woman.  Then had his cop friends cover it up.  

It was for pushing a ref. Simms called it even before the flag was thrown.

[Mexal]

I also thought that play was an obvious personal foul, but I got into a crazy argument with 2 of my friends that totally saw the play differentely than me. I mean when I saw it live I thought he led with his helmet but some people didn't just didn't see that for whatever reason. Perspectives are crazy.

[Ice Queen]

I also thought that play was an obvious personal foul, but I got into a crazy argument with 2 of my friends that totally saw the play differentely than me. I mean when I saw it live I thought he led with his helmet but some people didn't just didn't see that for whatever reason. Perspectives are crazy.

It was legal. Bernard had squared and taken 2 steps in an obvious football move and was never defenseless. AB, on the other hand, was. That piece of shit Burfict should have been ejected and I hope he gets a nice long suspension. A ban would be nice, too. He deliberately headhunted with intent to injure.

And Bengals fans are just classless. I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

[Ice Queen]

Of course he's supposed to tackle him but he's supposed to go in with his shoulder and wrap him up. You cannot lead with the crown of your helmet and it's especially worse when he leads with the crown of his helmet the moment the player turns around after making a catch and leads with that crown of the helmet INTO HIS FACE! Watch the play man. There is nothing legal about it, let alone legal enough to call a fumble after the player is knocked out from it. And even if that's fine, how can you let the Steelers players sit there and dance around like they're fucking amazing when the player is on the ground and not moving with 10 medical personnel around him. That's a moment to pray not dance around on his grave.

ETA: Just watch the link of the play above and tell me he didn't lead with his helmet to a player who barely turned around. He "initiated".

Watch it again. He'd taken a couple of steps, not "barely turned around".

You guys aren't still pissed about Carson Palmer, are you?

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

It was legal. Bernard had squared and taken 2 steps in an obvious football move and was never defenseless. AB, on the other hand, was. That piece of shit Burfict should have been ejected and I hope he gets a nice long suspension. A ban would be nice, too. He deliberately headhunted with intent to injure.

No, it wasn't. The "defenseless receiver" bit has no bearing on it. You can't lead your tackle with the top of your helmet, outside of the tackle box. It's incredibly dangerous for both the tackler and the runner when contact is initiated in this fashion. This is how players get crippled.

[Mexal]

 

It was legal. Bernard had squared and taken 2 steps in an obvious football move and was never defenseless. AB, on the other hand, was. That piece of shit Burfict should have been ejected and I hope he gets a nice long suspension. A ban would be nice, too. He deliberately headhunted with intent to injure.

And Bengals fans are just classless. I don't feel the least bit sorry for them.

Learn the rules please. This had nothing to do with a defenseless receiver but leading with the crown of the helmet which is ILLEGAL as written by the rules. Read any post in this thread. Hell read the rules.

And we're classless? Ok. That seems right.

[l2 0 5 5]

Now that is an aged reference.

 

Anyway I had already told the nfl I wouldn't be giving them or their sponsors any money any more. This game made it clear that the product they're producing isn't one I want to watch. People like 2055 or whatever the fuck his name is apparently want this kind of game. I do not.

 

Nictarion, mexal, I'm very sorry for this loss. I hope you know I was rooting for you guys. This game sucked.

But you'll continue to watch so your weightless comments about not watching anymore are impactful. Your money has also been revoked, I'm sure the NFL is devastated to know this. And what game is it that you think I'm a fanboy of? I'm happy we won. I'm not gonna boohoo about the Shazier hit. Why should I? It was a turnover. Do I love the guy? No, but I'm not gonna hate him because he made a helmet to helmet hit. FFS it happens in every game.  Didn't see anyone mention the hit Burfict tried to put on Brown at the end. 

[Mexal]

Watch it again. He'd taken a couple of steps, not "barely turned around".

You guys aren't still pissed about Carson Palmer, are you?

Go back to your cats. You clearly cannot read. I'm classless yet you're making comments about Palmer, someone I never brought up in the 100 posts I've made between this thread and last? Ok. Go continue to cheer on the players who dance and celebrate while another player is knocked out after taking a helmet to his face. Go cheer your coaches who grabbed players hair and curse out other players when he has no reason to be on the field. I at least have admitted my players were wrong and even said I wish Burfict wasn't on the Bengals. You instead call me classless. Ok.

[Spring Bass]

That was a shitty ending to an ugly game. I suppose there's hope that the Steelers will go down by 30 points next week, in a clean game where a playing Roethlisberger completely humiliates himself. Ugh. 

I still like watching most NFL games (I mean, was this that much shittier than the period when the NFL let replacement referees incompetently referee games despite risk of injury and cheapshots during the referee labor dispute? I stuck around after that), but I really hope the rest of the playoffs are better than that.