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Who should Robert have chosen for his Kingsguard?


James Steller

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so he is fireball? 

Since his niece's husband is buddy of king, why do not he ask for a spot? 

There are plenty of spots for some famous guy like him. 

No, because Fireball was married and then sent his wife packing to the silent sisters (I almost wrote Scissor Sisters, which would be hysterical). I'm guessing Blackfish was trying to avoid just that, especially since I can only imagine the powerful Redwynes would've been beyond furious. 

As to why he didn't ask, he probably has too much pride and wanted to be considered on his merits, not get the position by favoritism.

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Oh, dear, you'd have two trigger-happy (or is it hilt-happy?) low-key psychos (1.one of whom is also a pedophile and 2.the other was passed by Cersei Lannister for being too murderous), 3. a traitor willing to trade your family for some of them big and responsive Dornish nipples, and a 4. guy who did nothing much except being beaten into a pulp by a crowd of starving peasants and possibly having the most modern-sounding name in the series? 5. Oh, well, at least is better than Robert's. 

1. Re: Lyn Corbray. We don't know exactly whether he is a paedophile or simply homosexual. Boys is used to refer to both children but also young men like Jon Snow, Robb, etc. We know that he well known to not favour women, so it's not a hidden vice. Furthermore you want someone who is good at killing for a bodyguard job. So I don't see why being a low-key psycho is a problem. He's a second son and has a distinguished Valyrian Steel sword. A great pick for a Kingsguard post Robert's Rebellion, where also his leaning probably weren't known.

2. Horpe is a Stormlands born and pretty loyal guy. Again you want killers on your Kingsguard. 

3. Arys Oakheart's situation was complicated. He was disillusioned by Joffrey and attempting to crown another member of the Royal Family. But at the end of the day he was able to die bravely (albeit stupidly), which is a job requirement.

4. Preston Greenfield is a Lannister stooge. But you need to throw them a bone and you can watch someone obviously in their camp. Also the Lannister are meant to be your allies. I think you're underrating his actions. Dude singly handily waded into a rioting crowd to try and rescue the equivalent of a Pope. You need that blind following orders and dying for a Kingsguard.

5. Yes Robert's Kingsguard was terrible. I don't think mine is a collection of the best or paragons. But realistic practical choices within the limitations at the end of the Rebellion. 

Whereas others are like. 1. Bronze Yohn 2. Randyl Tarly etc. People who wouldn't give up a lordship to be Kingsguard.

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1. Re: Lyn Corbray. We don't know exactly whether he is a paedophile or simply homosexual. Boys is used to refer to both children but also young men like Jon Snow, Robb, etc. We know that he well known to not favour women, so it's not a hidden vice. Furthermore you want someone who is good at killing for a bodyguard job. So I don't see why being a low-key psycho is a problem. He's a second son and has a distinguished Valyrian Steel sword. A great pick for a Kingsguard post Robert's Rebellion, where also his leaning probably weren't known.

2. Horpe is a Stormlands born and pretty loyal guy. Again you want killers on your Kingsguard. 

3. Arys Oakheart's situation was complicated. He was disillusioned by Joffrey and attempting to crown another member of the Royal Family. But at the end of the day he was able to die bravely (albeit stupidly), which is a job requirement.

4. Preston Greenfield is a Lannister stooge. But you need to throw them a bone and you can watch someone obviously in their camp. Also the Lannister are meant to be your allies. I think you're underrating his actions. Dude singly handily waded into a rioting crowd to try and rescue the equivalent of a Pope. You need that blind following orders and dying for a Kingsguard.

5. Yes Robert's Kingsguard was terrible. I don't think mine is a collection of the best or paragons. But realistic practical choices within the limitations at the end of the Rebellion. 

Whereas others are like. 1. Bronze Yohn 2. Randyl Tarly etc. People who wouldn't give up a lordship to be Kingsguard.

Do we even know if Lyn Corbray is a skilled swordsman? Right, he owns a valyrian sword but it can be knocked off his hands too.

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Lord Commander: Brynden Tully (just, honorable, dutiful and stern. Not to mention he's quite skilled. Exactly what you want in a LC)

-Kingsguard: Godry Farring (He may be a dick, but he is not someone to back down from danger, making him already way better Boros Blount)

-Kingsguard: Balon Swann (A very skilled fighter, and seems to obey well)

-Kingsguard: Barristan Selmy (Obviously a great fighter, but seems to lack the conviction to be the Lord Commander. After all, he stood by when Cersei destroyed Robert's will, despite his misgivings. I am sure Tully would've acted there)

-Kingsguard: Lyn Corbay (Has shown great bravery by taking the lead on the against Dorne in RR + gets bonus points for lady Forlon. We just need to make sure he doesn't partake in his...um... indulgences)

-Kingsguard: Sandor Clegane (One of the best fighters in the realm. I feel like as long as I treat him well, he will stay fiercely loyal.  However, I might get him a therapist to help deal with his fear of fire). 

-Kingsguard: Cortnay Penrose (As we see in Clash when he challenges Stannis to single combat, he is very loyal, willing to risk his life to defend. He is also supposedly a seasoned commander, which is something else that can be useful). 

 

I would be able to sleep pretty well at night with this group guarding me. I personally think it's wayyy better than Robert's Kingsguard. The one person who could cause trouble would be Farring, but even he wouldn't dare do harm. I feel like Tully will do a good job at leading them and keeping them in check. Concerning the kingslayer, I would most likely send him to the wall. I would also have Gregor Clegane and Armory Lorch given the axe. That might also help ensureSandor's loyalty lol, especially if I let him do it himself (except there is the whole kinslaying taboo thing). 

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First off, I'm going to dismiss Jamie and Barrestan from The Kingsguard. I don't want either of them guarding me; Jamie's not trustworthy, and Barristan is a Targaryen lapdog who will regret serving me despite the fact that I saved his life (when I could easily have let him bleed out). So Barristan gets sent to The Wall and Jamie gets released from his vows and sent to Casterly Rock with an honor guard and a massive feast/tourney to celebrate his service to The Seven Kingdoms (also keeps him away from my wifey).

Once that's done, I'll choose my Kingsguard. 

Lord Commander: Balon Swann

Jory Cassel

Richard Horpe

Sandor Clegane

Rollard Storm

Gendry Waters

Jon Snow

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First off, I'm going to dismiss Jamie and Barrestan from The Kingsguard. I don't want either of them guarding me; Jamie's not trustworthy, and Barristan is a Targaryen lapdog who will regret serving me despite the fact that I saved his life (when I could easily have let him bleed out). So Barristan gets sent to The Wall and Jamie gets released from his vows and sent to Casterly Rock with an honor guard and a massive feast/tourney to celebrate his service to The Seven Kingdoms (also keeps him away from my wifey).

Once that's done, I'll choose my Kingsguard. 

Lord Commander: Balon Swann

Jory Cassel

Richard Horpe

Sandor Clegane

Rollard Storm

Gendry Waters

Jon Snow

Gendry? Does he know how to fight?

Jon Snow? don't you worry that he would break his oath and abandon you for his sister? (something like, oh, my little sister had to wed a bad man, anyone who wants to wed her except me is bad man. I am leaving right now, see you!)

 

 

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Gendry? Does he know how to fight?

Jon Snow? don't you worry that he would break his oath and abandon you for his sister? (something like, oh, my little sister had to wed a bad man, anyone who wants to wed her except me is bad man. I am leaving right now, see you!)

I can make Gendry a squire for one of my knights, giving him martial education from the men like Balon Swann and Rollard Storm. 

If I'm Robert, then Eddard is like a brother to me. Therefore, anyone who wishes to hurt his daughters can expect to get smashed to bits by my Warhammer. Plus, he won't have to make difficult choices because Lord Commander Swann will provide guidance.

 

 

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I can make Gendry a squire for one of my knights, giving him martial education from the men like Balon Swann and Rollard Storm. 

If I'm Robert, then Eddard is like a brother to me. Therefore, anyone who wishes to hurt his daughters can expect to get smashed to bits by my Warhammer. Plus, he won't have to make difficult choices because Lord Commander Swann will provide guidance.

 

 

The key issue is that Robert hated Rheagar and his dragon pawns. And we know who Jon Snow is. 

 

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But neither Robert nor Jon know that. If Eddard keeps what he knows to himself, than Jon Snow remains the son of Robert's best friend. 

Even if it gets revealed, it's not like Jon Snow will try to avenge his sperm-doner biological father. Rhaegar means nothing to Jon Snow, and Jon probably believes the same things about Rhaegar that Bran does (That Rhaegar was a cruel rapist). 

As for my/Robert's reaction, I'd probably assume that Lyanna was forced to bare Rhaegar's son. If Eddard is there to calm him/me  down, than I/Robert will instead see Jon Snow as being the last remnant of Lyanna and will cherish him (plus, being in the Kingsguard means never having children, which means Rhaegar's bloodline will die out anyway). From another angle, being a father-figure to Jon Snow would be a good way of delivering a "Fuck You!" to Rhaegar from beyond the grave: I killed him AND stole his son. 

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Do we even know if Lyn Corbray is a skilled swordsman? Right, he owns a valyrian sword but it can be knocked off his hands too.

He killed Lewyn Martell (albeit wounded) and led a counter attack that broke the Dornishmen. He and most of the Vale act like he's incredibly dangerous. Even if he isn't 100% of his reputation he is probably very good and I think Kingsguard standard.

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Y'all know Addam Marbrand is heir to Ashmark? Dude isn't likely going to be a Kingsguard or sworn sword. 

Lord Commander: Brynden Tully (just, honorable, dutiful and stern. Not to mention he's quite skilled. Exactly what you want in a LC)

-Kingsguard: Godry Farring (He may be a dick, but he is not someone to back down from danger, making him already way better Boros Blount)

-Kingsguard: Balon Swann (A very skilled fighter, and seems to obey well)

-Kingsguard: Barristan Selmy (Obviously a great fighter, but seems to lack the conviction to be the Lord Commander. After all, he stood by when Cersei destroyed Robert's will, despite his misgivings. I am sure Tully would've acted there)

-Kingsguard: Lyn Corbay (Has shown great bravery by taking the lead on the against Dorne in RR + gets bonus points for lady Forlon. We just need to make sure he doesn't partake in his...um... indulgences)

-Kingsguard: Sandor Clegane (One of the best fighters in the realm. I feel like as long as I treat him well, he will stay fiercely loyal.  However, I might get him a therapist to help deal with his fear of fire). 

-Kingsguard: Cortnay Penrose (As we see in Clash when he challenges Stannis to single combat, he is very loyal, willing to risk his life to defend. He is also supposedly a seasoned commander, which is something else that can be useful). 

 

I would be able to sleep pretty well at night with this group guarding me. I personally think it's wayyy better than Robert's Kingsguard. The one person who could cause trouble would be Farring, but even he wouldn't dare do harm. I feel like Tully will do a good job at leading them and keeping them in check. Concerning the kingslayer, I would most likely send him to the wall. I would also have Gregor Clegane and Armory Lorch given the axe. That might also help ensureSandor's loyalty lol, especially if I let him do it himself (except there is the whole kinslaying taboo thing). 

You know I had never thought about Cortnay Penrose (second son, brave and probably competent) and I immediately assumed Ser Barristan had to either be Kingsguard or removed from his position. I forget he wasn't the Commander until Robert made.

I'd change my Kingsguard to

Lord Commander Brynden Tully

Ser Barristan Selmy (I would give him the option to go to the Wall with honours or remain as a Kingsguard not Commander his choice)

Ser Lyn Corbray

Ser Balon Swann

Ser Richard Horpe

Ser Rolland Storm

Ser Cortnay Penrose

With Ser Godfry Farring as a spare if Barristan decides to go to the Wall.

I'd be very happy with this group guarding me. Corbray is the only wildcard, but with proper supervision he can be made into a decent KG. Mostly from the Stormlands but that's good for loyalty for this generation at least.

 

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Assume that you are Robert Baratheon, and you need to select five worthy knights to replace the five dead Kingsguard.

The men have to be alive and of mature age at the time (284 AC), they cannot be heirs to a lordship, and they must worship the Faith of the Seven. Assume that they will accept if you select them.

Which men would you pick?

At the time of 284 AC let me see. 

LC: Keep Barristan the Bold. The man is a living legend, honorable and still capable. I won't break tradition without good reason.

Bryden "Blackfish" Tully

Lyle "Strongboar" Crakehall

Garth "Greysteel" Hightower

Archibald Yronwood 

Wendel Manderly

"Silveraxe" Fell

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I think quite a few people missed the OP's parameters that Robert is picking his KG in 284, and no one can be heirs to lordships

These suggestions are all too young

Garlan, Loras, Archibald Yronwood, Waymar Royce, Balon Swann, Andrey Dalt, Lucas Blackwood, Daemon Sand, Godry Farring, Sandor Clegane, Jon Snow, Gendry, Guyard Morrigen, Arys Oakheart, Richard Horpe

And these suggestions are all heirs or lords themselves

Harras Harlaw, Bryce Caron, Andrey Dalt, Smalljon Umber, Addam Marbrand, Sandor Clegane, Lyn Corbray

 

Robert's KG probably actually is about what you expect from a guy who had to fill 5 spots (Jaime says that he and Barristan re-swore their oaths at Robert's coronation so they were already picked) 15 years ago right after a war. At the time they were probably all fairly good picks (after all, they had to have been picked initially for some reason at that's probably because of their skill displayed during the war). The problem is that they got older and nothing's killed them off for better replacements to step in because Robert's reign was so peaceful (well other than whoever Arys replaced as he only became KG in 290, likely after one died in the Greyjoy Rebellion). Robert's Kingsguards' biggest problems is that they weren't dying while they got crappier.

So while it does seem to be that there are a few guys who would have made good candidates at the time, like someone else mentioned, we're also looking at his KG 15 years after most were probably chosen and have the benefit of hindsight of knowing how those picks turned out. As Osmund says about Boros Blount

"Boros the Belly?" Ser Osmund chortled. "He's what, forty? Fifty? Half-drunk half the time, fat even when he's sober. If he ever had a taste for battle, he's lost it. Aye, Your Grace, if Ser Boros wants for killing, Osney could do it easy enough. Why? Has Boros done some treason?"

The guy's old, drunk, out of shape, and lost any taste for battle he had... 17 years after he would have been chosen that is. But from Jorah's recounting of the Lannisport tourney it seems to be that Boros made it to the semi-finals as he's the last person Jorah mentions before saying he had to face Jaime in the final, and he seems to have been the porcupine knight from the KOTLT story which means that he was a champion in the biggest tourney ever for almost 2 days. So once upon a time Boros was really good with a lance and wasn't just some mediocre knight or the fat coward we see. He probably actually seemed like a great pick for the KG. The problem is that it's been 19 years since Harrenhal, and 11 years since Lannisport. Not everybody is a Barristan Selmy whose prime never ends. And Robert couldn't have had any way of knowing that Boros would have slacked off and lost the will to fight back when he gave a 28 year old Boros a white cloak.

So guys like Boros the Belly aren't really a true reflection of Robert's Kingsguard as we're looking at how they've fallen over the years, which happens to every warrior and especially to men who are stuck in their posts and can't retire, and not how they were when chosen which probably paints a much different picture. I'm sure fresh from the war they probably seemed like fairly decent picks ("Did you see that charge young Meryn led at the Trident? Such valor!"). It's a lack of activities that cause death (duels, battles, wars) that's made Robert's KG look weak in various aspects as those would have exposed their failing abilities and led to new members when they couldn't keep up anymore (or never could have in the first place if the members were always mediocre).

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