Comics XII: All New, All Twelve

[Nictarion]

Just dropping in to thank whoever mentioned Essex County in one of these threads a while back.

Read it last night and was blown away by how good it was. I haven't been that moved by GN in a long time, if ever. 

[Calibandar]

On 2/1/2017 at 7:47 AM, Nictarion said:

Just dropping in to thank whoever mentioned Essex County in one of these threads a while back.

Read it last night and was blown away by how good it was. I haven't been that moved by GN in a long time, if ever. 

I may have been the one to mention that.

He has a new one coming up which seems somewhat in that vein.

https://www.amazon.com/Roughneck-Jeff-Lemire/dp/1501160990/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486479978&sr=1-12&refinements=p_27%3Ajeff+lemire

There's also Underwater Welder.

[red snow]

If this forum is anything to go by comics are in a bit of a dire situation at the moment. Feels like we have to sift for gold these days and more interested in Graphic novels or old collections. Rebirth seems to be selling well and I like some of the books but there isn't anything there that has me really excited.

Have to admit that even a lot of the Image works are losing their shine at the moment. Although it could also just be because money is currently tight along with time and comics tend to be the first thing that gets cut.

It's also really hard to justify how I can have Netflix and Amazon Prime for the same price as 4 comics. There really needs to be a digital subscription option for comics. The problem is that it would be suicidal for the mainstream publishers to even try it unless things were desperate. Why let people have access to all your comics for the price of 3 regular ones? I guess part of the problem is we can also consume more comics than TV shows in a given space of time. I think I'd pay £20 a month if it gave me access to all the months comics. I'd probably consider £10-£15 a month just for everything by image.

[mormont]

It's not news that comics companies need to figure out a sustainable model, and that selling monthly single issues through the direct market isn't it. I doubt that even collected editions will work: that's how I like to get my comics these days, but I'm a dinosaur that prefers art on paper. Digital is the way forward, the big companies just have to gather their courage and figure out how best to make it pay. It already supports a number of titles, in effect - Squirrel Girl, Hellcat, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur etc. sell tiny amounts in the direct market but their digital sales are strong enough that it doesn't matter.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Yeah, overall comics seem to be at a low point, creatively-wise. There's nothing right now that leaves me very excited, despite the odd good book here and there.

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Lately I've been buying TPB's of older stuff that comes highly recommended or was reviewed very well. My comic purchasing has been so scatter-shot for the past decade or so that I've missed many gems. Clean Room is really the only truly new comic I've bought in ages. Just got turned onto Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staples Saga, which is really fun, and I'm working my way through The Planetary Omnibus and Sandman Overture.

[MisterOJ]

5 hours ago, red snow said:

If this forum is anything to go by comics are in a bit of a dire situation at the moment. Feels like we have to sift for gold these days and more interested in Graphic novels or old collections. Rebirth seems to be selling well and I like some of the books but there isn't anything there that has me really excited.

Have to admit that even a lot of the Image works are losing their shine at the moment. Although it could also just be because money is currently tight along with time and comics tend to be the first thing that gets cut.

It's also really hard to justify how I can have Netflix and Amazon Prime for the same price as 4 comics. There really needs to be a digital subscription option for comics. The problem is that it would be suicidal for the mainstream publishers to even try it unless things were desperate. Why let people have access to all your comics for the price of 3 regular ones? I guess part of the problem is we can also consume more comics than TV shows in a given space of time. I think I'd pay £20 a month if it gave me access to all the months comics. I'd probably consider £10-£15 a month just for everything by image.

You mean like Marvel Unlimited, which is available for $10 a month. I've been using it for over a year now and I love it.

[red snow]

2 hours ago, MisterOJ said:

You mean like Marvel Unlimited, which is available for $10 a month. I've been using it for over a year now and I love it.

Given most of Marvel's comics are $4 that's a fair price. How many months behind are they on the regular comic releases? Now if only Marvel had some books I was interested in. Although if they have a good back catalogue it might still work.

7 hours ago, mormont said:

It's not news that comics companies need to figure out a sustainable model, and that selling monthly single issues through the direct market isn't it. I doubt that even collected editions will work: that's how I like to get my comics these days, but I'm a dinosaur that prefers art on paper. Digital is the way forward, the big companies just have to gather their courage and figure out how best to make it pay. It already supports a number of titles, in effect - Squirrel Girl, Hellcat, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur etc. sell tiny amounts in the direct market but their digital sales are strong enough that it doesn't matter.

I think paper comics is going to be something that's for the collector which is arguably what the market has been since the 90s slump.

I've always tended to think for the b-list titles like you just mentioned that the paper sales are there just to prop up digital at this point.

2 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Lately I've been buying TPB's of older stuff that comes highly recommended or was reviewed very well. My comic purchasing has been so scatter-shot for the past decade or so that I've missed many gems. Clean Room is really the only truly new comic I've bought in ages. Just got turned onto Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staples Saga, which is really fun, and I'm working my way through The Planetary Omnibus and Sandman Overture.

I've noticed it's been a while since even Image has had an exciting new book. I can remember a couple of years ago I'd pick up an Image issue 1 just out of interest and the hit rate was pretty strong. I missed out on "seven to Eternity" but part of the problem with new books from Image is that they have such good value first volume trades that it's silly to buy the first issues. I guess that in itself shows where Image thinks the market is for them.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, red snow said:

I've noticed it's been a while since even Image has had an exciting new book. I can remember a couple of years ago I'd pick up an Image issue 1 just out of interest and the hit rate was pretty strong. I missed out on "seven to Eternity" but part of the problem with new books from Image is that they have such good value first volume trades that it's silly to buy the first issues. I guess that in itself shows where Image thinks the market is for them.

 Yeah, I've never been a big Image fan, but Saga is a blast. I kind of gave up caring about value (as far as what a book is worth, or might be worth) a long time ago when I came to the realization that I'm almost totally unwilling to sell anything I enjoyed reading. I have probably 30-40 long boxes in the garage, on top of another 30-40 smaller boxes that can attest to this. Maybe in the case of an emergency or something, but outside of that, I just can't seem to part with them. Too many memories, I guess.

[mormont]

7 hours ago, red snow said:

I think paper comics is going to be something that's for the collector which is arguably what the market has been since the 90s slump.

Yeah, but of course that means the value is going to be negligible. The thing that actually drove up the value of most rare comics in the 80s was that buying back issues was the only way to read them, so there was a genuine demand. Demand driven solely by 'collectability' is, and has shown to be many times, nothing but a bubble: fool's gold. If the only people buying single-issue paper comics are the ones who want to collect them, not for value, but out of habit or tradition, and they have no intrinsic value, then they can't be sustainable. They will eventually disappear.

7 hours ago, red snow said:

I've always tended to think for the b-list titles like you just mentioned that the paper sales are there just to prop up digital at this point.

It's not even that. For those titles digital sales appear to dwarf paper sales. There's really no good reason I can see to publish the paper version. The big companies have dipped their toe into digital-only comics, of course, but they're still regarded as second rate, not 'real' comics, and so I think the main reason those titles have a paper version is to show that the companies are behind them. That, and that the companies don't have a good grasp on how to market a digital-only comic yet.

[red snow]

9 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Yeah, I've never been a big Image fan, but Saga is a blast. I kind of gave up caring about value (as far as what a book is worth, or might be worth) a long time ago when I came to the realization that I'm almost totally unwilling to sell anything I enjoyed reading. I have probably 30-40 long boxes in the garage, on top of another 30-40 smaller boxes that can attest to this. Maybe in the case of an emergency or something, but outside of that, I just can't seem to part with them. Too many memories, I guess.

I know how you feel. I have a lot of boxes of comics and while I'll never read them again and 99% are worthless, I can't part with them. Nostalgia to those times I guess.

1 hour ago, mormont said:

 

It's not even that. For those titles digital sales appear to dwarf paper sales. There's really no good reason I can see to publish the paper version. The big companies have dipped their toe into digital-only comics, of course, but they're still regarded as second rate, not 'real' comics, and so I think the main reason those titles have a paper version is to show that the companies are behind them. That, and that the companies don't have a good grasp on how to market a digital-only comic yet.

Interesting angle. So the physical comics are esentially little more than adverts. It is true that if Marvel or DC have digital only comics I tend to think they are second rate so your theory makes sense. Maybe even for readers who only read digital too.

Case in point for me is buying most of Brian K Vaughn's work but not being so good at buying his online work despite it being good and having a "choose your price" policy.

[MisterOJ]

13 hours ago, red snow said:

Given most of Marvel's comics are $4 that's a fair price. How many months behind are they on the regular comic releases? Now if only Marvel had some books I was interested in. Although if they have a good back catalogue it might still work.

They're six months behind on the new releases. Which isn't a big deal for me, because I had not read any comics in over 15 years before Marvel Unlimited brought me back in. I just checked my subscription history and I got Unlimited in April of 2015, so I've had it for almost two years. I'd say for the first 12 months, I did nothing but read every significant comic I'd missed out on in the previous 15-plus years. Civil War, Runaways, Old Man Logan, Planet Hulk, Secret Invasion, the whole run-up to Secret Wars... all of it. It was so worth it. I even read a lot of the crap like Avengers vs. X-Men, Axis, etc. It wasn't costing me anything extra, so I figured, "What the hell?"

Around the time Secret War started to hit on Unlimted (six months after the fact) I started reading those as they were released. I read almost everything during that time. I've been reading books as they come out on Unlimited ever since. I think it's pretty cool. I probably read 50-75 percent of the stuff Marvel is publishing. Yeah, a lot of it is crappy; but even the crappy titles I get a weird sort of entertainment from. Like Nighthawk. That book is so terrible, but everytime a new one drops on Unlimited, I read it just to see how bad it is. I'd never in a million years spend $4 for an issue of it, but since it's included in the subscription - why not?

The real value in Marvel Unlimited is the back catalog though. It's amazing. I think the current count is that they have over 17,000 comics on there that you have access to for $10 a month. Every issue of Amazing Spider Man, Captain America, Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men... all on there. And they're constantly adding old stuff. And they keep it fairly topical too. Around the time that the Luke Cage Netflix series came out, they added a bunch of his old comics from the 70s through the 90s. They did the same thing for Doctor Strange. But sometimes they just add random stuff. A couple weeks ago, they added a bunch of issues from the original New Warriors run in the early 90s. When I was a kid, that was my favorite comic. So, I had a lot of fun reading those again for the first time in decades. 

Really, the only downside is that for the big events, I get spoiled way in advance before I can read any of the real earth-shattering stuff. I knew about War Machine and Bruce Banner long before I ever read those issues of Civil War II. But, CWII is pretty much crap, so it doesn't bother me much.

So, yeah, Marvel Unlimted is awesome and I love it. I just hope it proves to be sustainable. If DC had something similar, I would be paying for it in a heartbeat.

[red snow]

To be fair if you visit comic newsites Marvel is happy to spoil the event comics before they are even released. Your way possibly gives you a chance to forget some details.

I'll have to see if it's possible to get access to the service outside the UK. Credit it where it's due to Marvel for making such a service available. I think Comixology might have a similar program in the US at least,

[MisterOJ]

15 hours ago, red snow said:

To be fair if you visit comic newsites Marvel is happy to spoil the event comics before they are even released. Your way possibly gives you a chance to forget some details.

I'll have to see if it's possible to get access to the service outside the UK. Credit it where it's due to Marvel for making such a service available. I think Comixology might have a similar program in the US at least,

I looked into the Comixology service at one point, and it just didn't have the same value as Marvel Unlimited. The price point was the same (if I recall correctly) but the only thing you got was access to partial runs of a bunch of indie comics. It was pretty much just the first volume of most series. Like, you could read the first trade paperback as part of the subscription, but if you want to read the subsequent trades, they weren't available and had to be just bought outright. 

I understand why they set it up that way, the value just wasn't there for me. Plus, I'm not a huge fan of indie comics anyway.

[red snow]

58 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

I looked into the Comixology service at one point, and it just didn't have the same value as Marvel Unlimited. The price point was the same (if I recall correctly) but the only thing you got was access to partial runs of a bunch of indie comics. It was pretty much just the first volume of most series. Like, you could read the first trade paperback as part of the subscription, but if you want to read the subsequent trades, they weren't available and had to be just bought outright. 

I understand why they set it up that way, the value just wasn't there for me. Plus, I'm not a huge fan of indie comics anyway.

the marvel one seems a better offer - especially given the bulk of their titles and how interconnected they can be. Reading an event 6 months later is probably easier and pays for a year's subsciption in a month of releases.

[Calibandar]

I have a few trades coming out which I intend to get:

Roughneck by Lemire

Thanos by Lemire

Unworthy Thor vol. 1

Black Hammer by Lemire

Autumnlands vol . 2- Busiek

Also looking into getting the massive trade of Infinity, because I want to read some Thanos stuff. May also get the new Jim Starlin hardcover trilogy on Thanos./

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

10 hours ago, Calibandar said:

Also looking into getting the massive trade of Infinity, because I want to read some Thanos stuff. May also get the new Jim Starlin hardcover trilogy on Thanos./

 If you like Starlin you should check out the old Dreadstar stuff. Fun Sci-Fi/Superhero mashup of sorts, not unlike Guardians of the Galaxy. Features a villain who is very Thanosesque. 

[Calibandar]

I wanted to get Infinity Gauntlet to finally read up on Thanos and this seems to be the definiteve book on him.

However, it's old and I can't get past the art style which is just not to my style. Would have gobbled that up as a 5 year old in the 80's, but not today I'mn afraid.

The new ones ( 2014-2016)have much improved art, but a less ambitious story.

[red snow]

On 10/02/2017 at 10:38 AM, Calibandar said:

I have a few trades coming out which I intend to get:

Roughneck by Lemire

Thanos by Lemire

Unworthy Thor vol. 1

Black Hammer by Lemire

Autumnlands vol . 2- Busiek

Also looking into getting the massive trade of Infinity, because I want to read some Thanos stuff. May also get the new Jim Starlin hardcover trilogy on Thanos./

 

There seems to be a common theme in that list

3 issues into "the clean room" trade. No idea what's going on yet but this is the best thing I've read from Simone. The art is amazing - surely he's destined to become an A lister. It has elements of Quitely but less stylized (Quitely characters tend to have pudgy faces) and he has a great way of doing horror without necessarily relying on gore. I see he's doing the wildstorm relaunch designs and one of the books. I was already tempted by Ellis being the writer but now I'm sold.

Hopefully the Clean Room can go on hiatus so the art can continue although I noticed Simone is listed as the sole creator - which I'm kind of surprised at in this day and age. It also means there's a lot less of a reason for him to stick with the title as he's just going to be on a page rate so getting on the big books is best for him.

[Kalbear]

The new artist for Clean Room is not as good as the original - who is simply one of the best artists I've seen since Cassady and Opena - but is still quite good, and is very good at the clean style and expressive character design. 

Clean Room also benefits tremendously from rereads once you find out what's going on, as you see a lot more setup and planning than most stories. It's very clear that the story has been planned from early on. Apparently Clean Room will 'end' around issue 24, but there might be a volume 2.