All dead characters will return??

[Ser Didymus]

You’re going to have to bear with me on this one.

White Walkers turn corpses into Wights.  Does this mean that ALL corpses are susceptible to becoming Wights?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, let us assume that the White Walkers make their way through/over/past the Wall, and beginning marching South through Westeros.

If we have seen Wight-humans, Wight-giants, wight-bears and wight-horses North of the Wall, is it safe to assume that these creatures will exist/appear South of the Wall as well?  

If so, ALL dead bodies (whether it be a human, animal or magical creature?) can become Wights.

 

The big questions:

If the White Walkers reach Winterfell, will the corpses of the Stark family members that are buried in the catacombs become reanimated Wights?  Is there an amount of time that would prevent a corpse from becoming a Wight?

Are ALL characters who have died subject to re-animation?  Will we see Wight-Robert Baratheon?  Wight-Robb Stark?  Wight-Tywin Lannister?  Pieces of Wight-Lysa Arryn?

And really, this whole line of questioning sprung from one thought I had during my 5^th re-read:  Will a character in the books see re-animated heads on spikes?  It’s a grisly thought, to be sure, but also an incredible image; especially if that character recognizes the head on the spike.

A question for another day, perhaps, but worth mentioning here.  What happens when the magical power that creates Wights from corpses bumps against the magical power that re-animated the corpse of Catelyn Stark?  The world may never know…. But it’s something I have been thinking about.

And lastly, will we see a Wight-Lady Direwolf loping around if the White Walker’s make their way far enough South?

 

“What is dead may never die, but rise again, blue-eyed and zombified.”

 

[Lady Winter Rose]

I find this theory plausible.

[Liaraeyne]

 This actually makes sense. No time limit for turning corpses into wights has ever been specified. Until then, this is well possible should the Others invade the south.

“What is dead may never die, but rise again, blue-eyed and zombified.”

*famous whatsapp teary-eyed laughter emoticon*

[dannyk65]

Never heard the theory before about Starks rising as Wights from the crypts below Wfell.

 

Very cool

[Lautrec]

That would be quite interesting to see, and rather cool, honestly. But for logistical reasons I kind of don't see Martin writing it.

[The Knight of Night]

Maybe that's why the Starks use the crypt under Winterfell. Maybe that's also why Ned had Lyanna and Brandon put there after they died.

[Curled Finger]

Maybe that's why the Starks use the crypt under Winterfell. Maybe that's also why Ned had Lyanna and Brandon put there after they died.

I tend to think that even in this scenario there has to be a fail safe against this sort of abomination.    Maybe that's exactly why the Targs practice cremation?  Would make excellent TV though.  

[Durran Durrandon]

A) That would seem to be the purpose of the iron swords in the Stark crypts. They are a magic ward to keep the bodies from getting frisky.

B ) While we see some skeletal looking wights in the show, book wights are definitely covered with flamable dead flesh, which leads me to think that once the flesh has rotted, they can't be animated as wights. 

C) As for the likes of Beric, Cat, and Mel, we can quible over assumption loaded labels like "undead", but they do not have rotting dead flesh, they breath, and have circulating blood,, black and smoking though it may be. I don't think they qualify as wightable corpses.

[[Deleted]]

Here's something I've always wondered about: Do you remember Othor and Jafer, the corpses that were found north of the wall, brought back to Castle Black, and then rose as wights? How did that happen? Why were they able to re-animate when all other corpses on the other side of the wall don't seem to be affected?

I think before your theory can gain creedence, we need to understand how exactly the Others "make" wights. In the TV show, we see the Night's King just raise his hands and suddenly all the dead are wights. Why can't the Others just do that to all corpses everywhere at once while they sit at home on the sofa, kicking back with a (very!) cold one while the wights destroy the world for them?

[Ser Didymus]

4 hours ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Here's something I've always wondered about: Do you remember Othor and Jafer, the corpses that were found north of the wall, brought back to Castle Black, and then rose as wights? How did that happen? Why were they able to re-animate when all other corpses on the other side of the wall don't seem to be affected?

I think before your theory can gain credence, we need to understand how exactly the Others "make" wights. In the TV show, we see the Night's King just raise his hands and suddenly all the dead are wights. Why can't the Others just do that to all corpses everywhere at once while they sit at home on the sofa, kicking back with a (very!) cold one while the wights destroy the world for them?

I worry that this line of thinking gets us into an area that will never be addressed, nor do i think it needs to be.  It's like everyone who was waiting for a legitimate and realistic explanation for the events that took place in the TV show "Lost."  

we know so little about the White Walkers' abilities, especially in terms of raising the dead as members of their army.  the OP was intended to explore the idea that ALL CORPSES are fair game, if only to show the readers a handful of long-dead characters.  i just think there is a wealth of literary value to a character like Sansa meeting/seeing/interacting with a character like LSH.... or less probable... Jon Snow coming face to face with his wight-mother.

i think the only corpses that are "safe" from becoming wights are those that have been burned (past Targaryens), or as 'Durran Durrandon' mentioned, corpses that have some sort of magical element guarding them.

 

along a similar line of thinking, i wonder why freshly-made corpses don't immediately rise as wights.  do White Walkers need to be close by?  do they need to make physical contact at some point?  is there something in the air that "infects" a corpse?  what is the role of the SUN with regards to wights and White Walkers?  these are all questions i wonder about, but i do not think it will detract from the overall quality of the series if they are not answered.

 

[Lowly Crow]

On 1/18/2016 at 10:46 AM, Aegonzo The Great said:

Here's something I've always wondered about: Do you remember Othor and Jafer, the corpses that were found north of the wall, brought back to Castle Black, and then rose as wights? How did that happen? Why were they able to re-animate when all other corpses on the other side of the wall don't seem to be affected?

I think before your theory can gain creedence, we need to understand how exactly the Others "make" wights. In the TV show, we see the Night's King just raise his hands and suddenly all the dead are wights. Why can't the Others just do that to all corpses everywhere at once while they sit at home on the sofa, kicking back with a (very!) cold one while the wights destroy the world for them?

Othor and Jafer were already wights when they were found by Ghost and the Night's Watch. There are two passages that point to this in GoT, Jon Ch. 52

 

“Othor,” announced Ser Jaremy Rykker, “beyond a doubt. And this one was Jafer Flowers.” He turned the corpse over with his foot, and the dead white face stared up at the overcast sky with blue, blue eyes.

and a few pages later...

Dywen sucked at his wooden teeth. “Might be they didn’t die here. Might be someone brought ‘ern and left ‘ern for us. A warning, as like.” The old forester peered down suspiciously. “And might be I’m a fool, but I don’t know that Othor never had no blue eyes afore.”
Ser Jaremy looked startled. “Neither did Flowers,” he blurted, turning to stare at the dead man. - GOT, Jon Ch. 52 (Emphasis mine)

There is a good discussion about this in Heresy 99 that begins about halfway down the first page. One of the more interesting quotes from that thread is from aDancewithFlagons:

Quote

If you look back before Jon wakes up cold, you will see the weather changing. After arriving at Castle Black with the two 'dead' rangers, Jon makes his way to the LC's Tower. After leaving the Tower we get this description. 'The wind was rising, and it seemed colder in the yard than it had when he'd gone in. Spirit summer was drawing to an end.

 

Then two paragraphs down we get this description. 'A north wind had begun to blow by the time the sun went down. Jon could hear it skirling against the Wall and over the icy battlements as he went to the common hall for the evening meal.'

 

So the weather has changed from no wind, warm and humid when they found the bodies to windy and colder before Jon falls asleep that night.

The coldness allowed Othor and Jafer to reanimate. The coldness did not not come from these two wights.

 

[[Deleted]]

On 1/20/2016 at 7:04 PM, Lowly Crow said:

Othor and Jafer were already wights when they were found by Ghost and the Night's Watch. There are two passages that point to this in GoT, Jon Ch. 52

 

I do remember this, but the question becomes, if they were already wights, why weren't they up walking around like other wights? Were they just "playing dead"? (Har!)  Were they waiting for the darkness and cold? Why have we not seen other wights acting like this?

And in response to Ser Didymus:

I think it would be very unlike GRRM if he didn't lay down some rules for how the Others' magic works. Otherwise, his carefully crafted world would suddenly be full of the mother of all dues ex machinas, where the Others could come up with new powers whenever it suited their needs. I think the evidence we've seen so far has followed a certain pattern, but we simply haven't picked up on it yet. There DOES seem to be some kind of time limit on how quickly Others can create wights, otherwise they would just bring back everything that ever died ever north of the wall and have a massive army instantly at their disposal. Think about it: Nothing would rot in the cold, and the Others have allegedly been around for 8000 years at least. How many people and animals died north of the wall in 8000 years? Their army would number in the hundreds of thousands. To say nothing of all the dead south of the wall.

For the record, I'm of the belief that the wights represent some kind of advanced warging on behalf of the Others. We've seen the Starks and their ability to take control of the living, the Others on the other hand have the ability to take control of the dead. But as others have said, the big question is: Is the a limit to WHICH dead the Others can warg? And if so, what it that limit? These are questions that I expect will be answered in the Winds Of Winter. And perhaps the title itself is a clue.

[Morgana Lannister]

On 14/01/2016 at 3:41 PM, Ser Didymus said:

You’re going to have to bear with me on this one.

White Walkers turn corpses into Wights.  Does this mean that ALL corpses are susceptible to becoming Wights?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, let us assume that the White Walkers make their way through/over/past the Wall, and beginning marching South through Westeros.

If we have seen Wight-humans, Wight-giants, wight-bears and wight-horses North of the Wall, is it safe to assume that these creatures will exist/appear South of the Wall as well?  

If so, ALL dead bodies (whether it be a human, animal or magical creature?) can become Wights.

 

The big questions:

If the White Walkers reach Winterfell, will the corpses of the Stark family members that are buried in the catacombs become reanimated Wights?  Is there an amount of time that would prevent a corpse from becoming a Wight?

Are ALL characters who have died subject to re-animation?  Will we see Wight-Robert Baratheon?  Wight-Robb Stark?  Wight-Tywin Lannister?  Pieces of Wight-Lysa Arryn?

And really, this whole line of questioning sprung from one thought I had during my 5^th re-read:  Will a character in the books see re-animated heads on spikes?  It’s a grisly thought, to be sure, but also an incredible image; especially if that character recognizes the head on the spike.

A question for another day, perhaps, but worth mentioning here.  What happens when the magical power that creates Wights from corpses bumps against the magical power that re-animated the corpse of Catelyn Stark?  The world may never know…. But it’s something I have been thinking about.

And lastly, will we see a Wight-Lady Direwolf loping around if the White Walker’s make their way far enough South?

 

“What is dead may never die, but rise again, blue-eyed and zombified.”

 

Fantastic questions but some of your imagery, sad and grisly as it may be has got me rolling on the floor laughing lol especially the last sentence 

[Morgana Lannister]

On 14/01/2016 at 10:18 PM, Lautrec said:

That would be quite interesting to see, and rather cool, honestly. But for logistical reasons I kind of don't see Martin writing it.

I wonder if the crypts might not serve the opposite purpose; i.e. to prevent the White Walkers from turning them.  This would definitely would make sense to me hence it is import for the Stark family to ensure their relatives are buried there.  However, I suspect that if this is the case the custom started for that reason but the reason why has gotten lost with the pass of time and the current family members do no longer realise that this is the case... Just a thought

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

Are there any Wights in the books that weren't killed by other wights or white walkers?

I know that everyone North of the wall burns their dead, but that could be a "better safe than sorry" policy.

[[Deleted]]

1 minute ago, Lord Spark of House Spark said:

Are there any Wights in the books that weren't killed by other wights or white walkers?

I know that everyone North of the wall burns their dead, but that could be a "better safe than sorry" policy.

This is a great point. Even on the TV show at Hardhome, all of those dead that became wights were killed by the Others or the wights themselves.

It still begs the question: What IS it about how someone/something dies that makes that dead thing a candidate to become a wight? As I said, there must be some limitation to the Others' power, but what is that limitation?

You may be onto something with your question.

[Morgana Lannister]

7 minutes ago, Lord Spark of House Spark said:

Are there any Wights in the books that weren't killed by other wights or white walkers?

I know that everyone North of the wall burns their dead, but that could be a "better safe than sorry" policy.

Well, it could be a "better safe than sorry" policy indeed but Ygritte seemed very keen on being burnt in Jon killed her and I would have thought the wildlings should now about those things.  

[Morgana Lannister]

On 17/01/2016 at 0:38 AM, Curled Finger said:

I tend to think that even in this scenario there has to be a fail safe against this sort of abomination.    Maybe that's exactly why the Targs practice cremation?  Would make excellent TV though.  

lol yes (re tv); the Targs and the followers of the Lord of Light though although they make their own undead, like Beric and Cat and yet I get the feeling that they counter-act each other in nature somehow.  Sorry, probably didn't express myself very well here but the thing about Ice and Fire being like the whole essence of the entire series; I wonder if one type of undead can kill the other... and this would tally with Mel's ranting on the Night being dark and full of terrors and this "other god" they won't name (Master of the Wights???)  I have to admit though that I haven't read any other books besides the Song of Ice and Fire so not sure if there are clues elsewhere in Martin's work.

[Morgana Lannister]

On 17/01/2016 at 4:46 AM, Durran Durrandon said:

A) That would seem to be the purpose of the iron swords in the Stark crypts. They are a magic ward to keep the bodies from getting frisky.

B ) While we see some skeletal looking wights in the show, book wights are definitely covered with flamable dead flesh, which leads me to think that once the flesh has rotted, they can't be animated as wights. 

C) As for the likes of Beric, Cat, and Mel, we can quible over assumption loaded labels like "undead", but they do not have rotting dead flesh, they breath, and have circulating blood,, black and smoking though it may be. I don't think they qualify as wightable corpses.

A)  You could be onto something here

B ) Good point

C) Indeed but these are a different type.  "Me thinks" that the Wights have something to do with that god of darkness Mel & Co won't dare name and the other ones clearly are connected to Mel's god and both seem to be in eternal opposition which I find in a round about way reminiscent of the Fae Courts of Winter and Summer in folk culture.  This category seem to be time-sensitive given that Cat had been drowned and left there for 3 days and was almost unresurrectable.  Now, another thing, drowning them for long enough might prevent this; hence the Drowned God cult.

Now, let me see; possible parallel here with the 4 elements:  fire, water, air and earth.  Not sure about earth but let's see:  the ones from the fire god are prevented with water; the ones from the god of kind of frozen water (ice) are counteracted by fire... I think this means something guys

Now, we have the added complication of people like Qyburn and our mystery Ser Robert Strong who would appear to possibly be a third type, more a la Frankenstein...

[Morgana Lannister]

On 18/01/2016 at 5:46 PM, Aegonzo The Great said:

Here's something I've always wondered about: Do you remember Othor and Jafer, the corpses that were found north of the wall, brought back to Castle Black, and then rose as wights? How did that happen? Why were they able to re-animate when all other corpses on the other side of the wall don't seem to be affected?

I think before your theory can gain creedence, we need to understand how exactly the Others "make" wights. In the TV show, we see the Night's King just raise his hands and suddenly all the dead are wights. Why can't the Others just do that to all corpses everywhere at once while they sit at home on the sofa, kicking back with a (very!) cold one while the wights destroy the world for them?

lol scary thought but good point.  Again great imagery for a good laugh. I can now picture the Others watching a show at home with a remote control to activate the wights whilst wearing sleepers and sipping some whiskey lol