zelticgar Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I have not seen any discussion about this incident. A few of my military friends are outraged but I am not sure what to make of it. The images of the sailors apologizing, on their knees in surrender poses and the female soldier wearing a head scarf seem pretty rough. I'd be curious to see what any former military folks think of this. The administration seemed to move quickly to apologize to Iran for the incident but I am not clear why there was a rush to do that. Most article I have read indicate there is no clear indication of exactly what happened and that the pentagon is still investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It seems pretty straightforward - they accidentally went into Iranian waters, they got arrested, the US apologised and Iran released them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yeah but, how do you accidentally go into Iranian water? I thought we had GPS technology that tells us where we are? Seems like someone screwed up at some level to cause this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Or the Iranians may have a different idea of where the border is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yeah but, how do you accidentally go into Iranian water? I thought we had GPS technology that tells us where we are? Seems like someone screwed up at some level to cause this to happen.I read that their ship(s) had mechanical difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesy Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Pro-tip from a former US Sailor: if you can't make steerage, the ocean will put you wherever the fuck it wants, without permission from anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 A few of my military friends are outraged but I am not sure what to make of it.Are they outraged the sailors came back safe in a timely manner?A few sailors in 'surrender' poses and a female one wearing a headdress is about as mild as it gets. They shouldn't be so easily offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 In 2007, the same thing happened to some British sailors -- mechanical difficulties, drift into Iranian waters, get taken in. The Iranians held them for 13 days, and put them in all sorts of promotional photos and videos. Some of the British sailors claim to have been tortured. Getting these sailors back, unharmed, in less than 24 hours is due to diplomacy.But in the GOP Presidential candidate fever dream, anyone so much as pointing a middle finger at an American abroad without getting carpet bombed in response is evidence of the appalling weakness of a nation that spends more on its military than the next umpteen countries combined, so they fell all over themselves to wail and moan about American weakness, a few hours before American diplomacy got the sailors back. It must be exhausting and terrifying to live in the world of a Republican politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This is nothing more then an empty story for Republicans to get mad about and thump their chests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonesy Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Mr. Unwashed, as a US Sailor who boarded freighters in the Persian Gulf I am verifying that is what we do. It would not shock me to read that those Sailors assumed that position unprompted because it's so very standard and to speed up and ease the process of the evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Are they outraged the sailors came back safe in a timely manner?A few sailors in 'surrender' poses and a female one wearing a headdress is about as mild as it gets. They shouldn't be so easily offended.They are former marines who fought in Iraq. From what i could tell they basically thought the sailors should not have apologized or allowed the Iranians to video tape them. One of the guys said he would not have allowed his fellow marines to be video taped. I have no knowledge of military procedure or protocols so I was just kind of curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 They are former marines who fought in Iraq. From what i could tell they basically thought the sailors should not have apologized or allowed the Iranians to video tape them. One of the guys said he would not have allowed his fellow marines to be video taped. I have no knowledge of military procedure or protocols so I was just kind of curious. Yeah, it would have so much better if they got involved in a totally unnecessary firefight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yeah, it would have so much better if they got involved in a totally unnecessary firefight. I dont think they were talking about the part involving the capture itself which is what you are talking about. Their issue was with the sailors participating in a video after capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 In 2007, the same thing happened to some British sailors -- mechanical difficulties, drift into Iranian waters, get taken in. The Iranians held them for 13 days, and put them in all sorts of promotional photos and videos. Some of the British sailors claim to have been tortured. Getting these sailors back, unharmed, in less than 24 hours is due to diplomacy.But in the GOP Presidential candidate fever dream, anyone so much as pointing a middle finger at an American abroad without getting carpet bombed in response is evidence of the appalling weakness of a nation that spends more on its military than the next umpteen countries combined, so they fell all over themselves to wail and moan about American weakness, a few hours before American diplomacy got the sailors back. It must be exhausting and terrifying to live in the world of a Republican politician.This is totally true. Based on any rational analysis, it's hard to see this incident as anything other than a complete and total win for Obama's diplomatic stance toward Iran. The GOP's complete and utter obsession with symbolism - and the idea that people in other countries need to be killed for these kinds of symbolic sleights against American hegemony (which have been going on for as long as American hegemony has been a thing) - is just completely absurd. I want to believe that a majority of the Republicans standing up on that stage last night know that what they're saying is complete bullshit and that they're just playing to the audience, but my suspicion is that a few of them are sincere, and that is a pretty frightening prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I dont think they were talking about the part involving the capture itself which is what you are talking about. Their issue was with the sailors participating in a video after capture. Ah, okay. I think the sailors should be commended for not over-reacting and turning a petty little situation into an international incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 no state of war so no need for sailors to stfu, no? apology videos are therefore reasonable participation in Iranian propaganda when the US position is substantially identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andriy Czarchenko Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This is totally true. Based on any rational analysis, it's hard to see this incident as anything other than a complete and total win for Obama's diplomatic stance toward Iran. The GOP's complete and utter obsession with symbolism - and the idea that people in other countries need to be killed for these kinds of symbolic sleights against American hegemony (which have been going on for as long as American hegemony has been a thing) - is just completely absurd. I want to believe that a majority of the Republicans standing up on that stage last night know that what they're saying is complete bullshit and that they're just playing to the audience, but my suspicion is that a few of them are sincere, and that is a pretty frightening prospect. Well a big part of the problem is the lack of thought towards international issues by most americans. I mean even Zelticgar´s original post is completely devoid of any mention of the sailors origin. It´s just Navy sailors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zelticgar Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well a big part of the problem is the lack of thought towards international issues by most americans. I mean even Zelticgar´s original post is completely devoid of any mention of the sailors origin. It´s just Navy sailors.Do other countries have Naval fleets? I thought that was an American thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Walker Texas Ranger Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Do other countries have Naval fleets? I thought that was an American thing? Yes...? In fact the sailors got captured near a Revolutionary Guard Naval Base. I think that there were some Iranian internal politics at play here. I believe the Revolutionary Guard and some of the more extreme mullahs are opposed to reconciliation with the US. It's possible they were trying to spark an incident and derail the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 obviously BHO set this up so that they could be fake-captured and released in a show of diplomatic skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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