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Are Dany, Arya and Jon mary sues/gary stu?


Raven

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They seem to be.

By comparison:

Jaime: lost his hand, loses most of his fighting power as well.

Bran: loses the ability to walk.

Tyrion: scars on his face due to battle, father and sister who hate him and have plotted to have him killed or sent to the wall

Brienne: has to hear crap from many people because everyone thinks she isn't a good knight because she's a female

Sansa: while I don't really like this character, it is evident that she has suffered greatly in King's Landing with Joffrey

Theon: well, he got tortured and has gone through the tragedy of being in conflict about fighting the starks or staying loyal with them. I get the feeling that he does care for Bran, Robb, Sansa, Arya and Rickon, and Jon too I think.

Cat: her son losing the ability to walk, herself thinking that she has lost many/all of her children and of course the fact of what happened during the Red Wedding.

Dany gets dragons, Arya gets powerful magic assassin abilities or something, Jon gets a sword made from Valyrian steel and becomes Lord Commander. Jon got attacked by his own men, but I think GRRM has more plans for him.

 

 

 

 

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Dany lost her family before she was even born, was hunted and abused her entire childhood, had to watch her brother die in front of her because he'd gone mad, lost her beloved husband and child, and the only power she had.  She was prevented from being raped and enslaved only by her own use of magic to bring the dragons to life.  Oh, and even then she had to cross a desert and lost half her remaining followers. 

Arya has gone through just as horrible experiences as Sansa.  She's hardly unchanged by them - it's possible she'll end up half mad or forget who she is.

I think you have a point with Jon.  Mostly because he's never had to make a difficult/morally compromising decision, unlike Dany, Tyrion, Arya, and Sansa.  But, that's the character GRRM decided to write so we have to go with it ultimately.  He didn't want Jon to compromise morally so he wrote Around it.

 

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Dany lost her family before she was even born, was hunted and abused her entire childhood, had to watch her brother die in front of her because he'd gone mad, lost her beloved husband and child, and the only power she had.  She was prevented from being raped and enslaved only by her own use of magic to bring the dragons to life.  Oh, and even then she had to cross a desert and lost half her remaining followers. 

Actually this is why she was lucky. 

Everybody around her just died tragically or terribly. But she remained very well. No raping, no slaving, not even hurting or injuring.

The loss of her husband and son is quite convenient to bring the dragons back. 

I am pretty sure her second husband will also die, third husband will also die, but she will still survive and marry Jon Snow. 

 

 

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I think you have a point with Jon.  Mostly because he's never had to make a difficult/morally compromising decision, unlike Dany, Tyrion, Arya, and Sansa.  But, that's the character GRRM decided to write so we have to go with it ultimately.  He didn't want Jon to compromise morally so he wrote Around it.

 

No difficultt decision? The decision to leave Ygritte whom he loved so that he could warn his brothers? the decison to kill qhorin halfhand , because qhorin told him so, but  at the cost of his own honor? the decision to let Tormund and his band of wildings in disagreement with a lot of people in the nights watch? 

His situation was pretty messed up and he was sent to Mance to negotiate because according to Janos, he was an oathbreaker , tuncloak and warg

Bastard children were born from lust and lies, men said; their nature was wanton and treacherous. Once Jon had meant to prove them wrong, to show his lord father that he could be as good and true a son as Robb. I made a botch of that. Robb had become a hero king; if Jon was remembered at all, it would be as a turncloak, an oathbreaker, and a murderer. He was glad that Lord Eddard was not alive to see his shame.

He may have been very very lucky. But thats true for a lot of POV characters. You need the luck to hatch dragons. You need luck to escape Harrenhal the way Arya did. Almost all the major characters are lucky to have survived this long.

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Dany lost her family before she was even born, was hunted and abused her entire childhood, had to watch her brother die in front of her because he'd gone mad, lost her beloved husband and child, and the only power she had.  She was prevented from being raped and enslaved only by her own use of magic to bring the dragons to life.  Oh, and even then she had to cross a desert and lost half her remaining followers. 

 

You know, even though I don't think Dany is a Mary Sue, I don't think this is the reason why.

I could totally see Ensign Mary Sue, whose got all the answers, along with her boyfriend Wesley Crusher, having this type of endearing backstory.

ie:
She lost her entire family at 12 years old and became an orphan. But, being super smart she was able to enter Star Fleet Academy at just 14 years old, graduating at the top of her class, at 17, because it only took her 3 years rather than the normal 4 years.

Anyway, I don't think Dany, Arya, or Jon are Mary Sues or Gary Stus respectively.

I guess if anyone would be close, it would probably be Jon. But, Jon, at times, has done some boneheaded things.

Also, even though GRRM might have his favorite characters, I don't think he always goes out of his way to present them in a favorable light. Tyrion is a favorite, and clearly Tyrion can be a real ass at times.

I don't think the fact that somebody hasn't allegedly suffered qualifies them as being a Mary Sue. To me a Mary Sue is somebody that never fucks up, while having some kind of super awesome abilities.

 

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Actually this is why she was lucky. 

Everybody around her just died tragically or terribly. But she remained very well. No raping, no slaving, not even hurting or injuring.

The loss of her husband and son is quite convenient to bring the dragons back. 

I am pretty sure her second husband will also die, third husband will also die, but she will still survive and marry Jon Snow. 

I wouldn't call emotional abuse all her life as lucky, just because she hasn't died doesn't mean she's lucky. Watching your family and closed ones died tragically while had to run from murderers multiple times as beggars can't be count as lucky, it's terrible to be alone and having no one to trust. Sansa and Arya hasn't died too but i wouldn't call them lucky. Also Viserys did hurt her physically. 

And it wasn't convenient, she had no idea about the dragons. It only clicked on her after not before

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I don't think just because someone hasn't died and has had some good things happen to them makes them Mary Sue or Gary Stu. Jon, Dany, & Arya have each made stupid decisions and have each had some horrible things happen to them. They're no where near perfect. IMO, that's what usually make a Mary Sue or Gary Stu. There no where near what a perfect hero would be nor are we even sure they will be "heroes" at the end of the day. Now I will say that they, along with Tyrion have some pretty good plot armor, but that doesn't make them Mary Sues.

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I wouldn't call emotional abuse all her life as lucky, just because she hasn't died doesn't mean she's lucky. Watching your family and closed ones died tragically while had to run from murderers multiple times as beggars can't be count as lucky, it's terrible to be alone and having no one to trust. Sansa and Arya hasn't died too but i wouldn't call them lucky. Also Viserys did hurt her physically. 

And it wasn't convenient, she had no idea about the dragons. It only clicked on her after not before

well, compared to what some other people got, what dany suffered was really not that much. Did jeyne Poole get three dragons? 

By the way, no matter how bad you feel to be lonely, it is still better to be alive than die, right? 

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I think Dany comes closest, in that she is the most privileged character of the bunch. She also has a whole bunch of romantic crap going for her which even Jon doesn't quite have.

  • tragic past which she has heroically overcome
  • noble heritage
  • not simply beautiful, but THE most beautiful of them all, with amethyst eyes, silver hair
  • the cause which forgives a multitude of sins. "But she's freeing slaves!" is pretty much an end to any criticism she might receive.
  • Magic that sets her apart: Fireproof, at least once. Hatches not one but three dragons, managing what a century of Targs couldn't.
  • The noble titles.
  • The fucking SAVIOR.
  • She's spared punishment for mistakes. She makes plenty on SB, yet she is not scarred, stabbed, beheaded, bitten, defaced. Her consequence is a ride on Drogo (her locking up the dragons had NO consequence) and an epiphany.
  • Oh, and the ever-Mary Sue thing: People who love her are good. People who don't...they're so far very very bad.
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Actually this is why she was lucky. 

Everybody around her just died tragically or terribly. But she remained very well. No raping, no slaving, not even hurting or injuring.

The loss of her husband and son is quite convenient to bring the dragons back. 

I am pretty sure her second husband will also die, third husband will also die, but she will still survive and marry Jon Snow. 

 

 

I have seen the same arguments given for Arya..So any girl who has not get raped in this pseudo medievalist fantasy is lucky?

What is convenient? For the story it is? But personally..I am sure Dany and Arya would prefer being with their family over dragons or assassin training..

No she won't marry Jon Snow

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The definition of a Mary Sue can shift at times, but generally a Mary Sue is suppose to the perfect character.  Very good looking, smart, brave, good at everything with no or next to 0 character flaws.  Dany is the closest, but no character is honestly anywhere close to being a Mary Sue.  

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well, compared to what some other people got, what dany suffered was really not that much. Did jeyne Poole get three dragons? 

By the way, no matter how bad you feel to be lonely, it is still better to be alive than die, right? 

how exactly one measure the suffering of different people...do all those people who are mentioned in the OP suffered more than jeyne Poole ....did sansa  did Jamie did bran suffer more than jeyene Poole..

just because some people have suffered more doesn't mean others suffering are any less

 

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I think Dany comes closest, in that she is the most privileged character of the bunch. She also has a whole bunch of romantic crap going for her which even Jon doesn't quite have.

  • tragic past which she has heroically overcome
  • noble heritage
  • not simply beautiful, but THE most beautiful of them all, with amethyst eyes, silver hair
  • the cause which forgives a multitude of sins. "But she's freeing slaves!" is pretty much an end to any criticism she might receive.
  • Magic that sets her apart: Fireproof, at least once. Hatches not one but three dragons, managing what a century of Targs couldn't.
  • The noble titles.
  • The fucking SAVIOR.
  • She's spared punishment for mistakes. She makes plenty on SB, yet she is not scarred, stabbed, beheaded, bitten, defaced. Her consequence is a ride on Drogo (her locking up the dragons had NO consequence) and an epiphany.
  • Oh, and the ever-Mary Sue thing: People who love her are good. People who don't...they're so far very very bad.

A lot of this is nonsense. Why her noble heritage or her cause is an argument for her being Mary Sue? And Jon has that too.

She is priveleged..YES, Perfect...NO

Dany has a lot of visible flaws compared to Jon(who is the perfect prince) which you didn't cover in your post.

 

 

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They seem to be.

(...) Dany gets dragons, Arya gets powerful magic assassin abilities or something, Jon gets a sword made from Valyrian steel and becomes Lord Commander. Jon got attacked by his own men, but I think GRRM has more plans for him.

What do you think Mary Sue is?! Because whatever definition you do have, it's very different from the commonly agreed on.

Mary Sue is a walking perfection, no chink in her armor, always nice, always on the side of right, and whatever she does, she does perfectly at the first attempt. Neither Dany nor Arya never got even close to that, certainly not after the first book. Troubling, conflicting moments aplenty for both of them. Arya at her worst is scary vicious, and Dany saying "yeah, fine, torture the wineseller's daughters" was simply, unambiguously wrong. For example.

Out of those three, Jon Snow would be the closest to a classical Mary Sue, but Mary Sue would never get blindsided by a dagger in the hand of one of her subordinates. Heroic sacrifice, maybe. Be politically outplayed, certainly not.

Now, Baelor Breakspear, that's a fine Mary Sue for you.

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