24 reboot - Without Jack, it's not 24 (Spoilers)

[dbunting]

Well, the actor studied at Julliard so he isn't just a black actor. So far in TWD he has been forgettable. In Compton he was pretty good in a limited role. If this comes out I will definitely watch and see how it goes.

[Rhom]

1 minute ago, dbunting said:

Well, the actor studied at Julliard so he isn't just a black actor. So far in TWD he has been forgettable. In Compton he was pretty good in a limited role. If this comes out I will definitely watch and see how it goes.

I'm not saying he's not a good actor.  I'm saying that in all the public quotes, the higher ups at Fox have said "We're going for something totally different... we're going to have a black lead actor."  Which again, I think defeats the entire concept of the show and really is the opposite of diversity.  I think that true diversity in Hollywood is when the part doesn't matter if the lead is black or white.

As to the discussion on the real time aspect being the important thing, I agree.  The first season everything was much more personal.  An attempt on a presidential candidate.  Jack's private life.  Etc.  Once Season two introduced the ticking time bomb of nukes, every season became a competition to one up the others.  How many times can the president be incapacitated and return to usurp control from his opportunistic vice president?  By reducing the show to 12 episodes, but keeping it as one day it does lose some aspect of that urgency and at the same time resolves the problem mentioned upthread about stretching out storylines to expand to a full day.

[dbunting]

3 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I'm not saying he's not a good actor.  I'm saying that in all the public quotes, the higher ups at Fox have said "We're going for something totally different... we're going to have a black lead actor."  Which again, I think defeats the entire concept of the show and really is the opposite of diversity.  I think that true diversity in Hollywood is when the part doesn't matter if the lead is black or white.

 

Ok, that makes a big difference. If they are saying that then they are truly idiots. At some point in life I would hope to see someone just be who they are. Good, bad, whatever, but not based on color, height, weight, religion etc. gets ridiculous sometimes.

[Lord Varys]

6 minutes ago, Fat Mac said:

I agree. The time concept is by far the most unique thing about 24. I like Jack, but I saw from Live Another Day that he can be replaced by another action hero. Don't know much about this Corey Hawkins guy, but I think they can make it work. But hopefully they don't have the repeat trend of everyone else being incompetent to make the hero look super good. 

Another thing I remembering enjoying from the first seasons was the parallel story concept - when they did it right, then it made a lot of sense to have various stories that eventually interconnected (like the Palmer story, the Bauer story, and the CTU story in season 1). At times that didn't work - say, the Palmer story in season 3 had pretty much nothing to do with the CTU/Jack story in the same season.

Making the plan A and plan B threat thing from season 1 a model (which was back then not done deliberately but because they didn't yet know if they would get a full season and therefore had a possible ending planned after 12 hours) was also not really that great. If they sat down and actually planned a full season in an outline they could have built up suspense and slowly raised the stakes. This is essentially not a series to be watched on TV every week, it is essentially designed for binge-watching - and the production should actually reflect that.

But I've to say overall the show completely sucked after they brought Tony back and fucked things up with two contradictory explanations for the murder of Michelle/Palmer (one in season 6, with Jack's father and brother being the culprits, and then in season 7, I think, again with that other guy that showed up in the end). You cannot possible this stupid stuff anyone with a straight face.

Hell, one really wonders what they could have done had they changed Jack in the process, or allowed him and/or Tony or other characters that were with the show for quite some time to develop into new directions. Say, make Jack/Tony eventually politicians themselves, or have them actually do stuff in other interesting private fields. Instead the show pretty much repeated the same basis story premise over and over again, and tried to outdo itself in that field (which essentially was impossible after they had gone through all the ABC weapons).

[Rhom]

Miranda Otto cast as a leading female role.

"The new take features an all-new cast of characters and will be structured in the same style of the original series. 24: Legacy revolves around a military hero's (Straight Outta Compton's Corey Hawkins) return to the U.S. and the trouble that follows him back — compelling him to ask CTU for help in saving his life and stopping what potentially could be one of the largest-scale terror attacks on American soil. Otto will star as Rebecca Ingram, the blazingly smart former head of CTU. Now married to Sen. John Donovan (not yet cast), she struggles with second thoughts about having left the counter-terrorism agency."

Sounds like a standard 24 part.  I don't hate this casting.

[RumHam]

We were getting off topic in the Star Trek thread (of all places) so I dug this up. Premiers February 5th. Here's a video of some of the actors seemingly explaining the plot of most of the first episode: 

 

[RumHam]

Quote

 

"You cannot miss one second off it. - Dan Bucatinsky"

"We go through in one episode what would normally take a whole season on other shows." - Miranda Otto

 

Those both made me laugh. Have these people ever actually seen 24? I mean hey I'd love to believe this new iteration is so tightly written that these quotes are true. But in the past the format has lead to a lot of stalling and drawing out of events. 

[Rhom]

I've been seeing the commercials while watching football... I'm just not feeling it.  I own every season on DVD, even the mini-movie thing they did during the writer's strike, and I even own the book that came out between season one and two (Congressional findings or some such).  This just doesn't feel like 24 to me.  Perhaps its because of the glut of similar shows that have popped up over the years, but this show just seems like it could have any other name and be exactly the same.

But of course... I'll plop down on my couch after the Super Bowl and watch, because that's what I do.   

[dbunting]

I wonder if using this format lends the show to binge watching. Seems like a 2-3 episode binge at a time would work really well since the episodes literally lead from one minute to the next.

[Rhom]

I'm editing the first post to allow spoilers as soon as I get done posting this.

Everything about this show felt like a cheap parody.  So an Army team who took out the 24 equivalent of Osama Bin Laden is back home and basically put into witness protection.  A team of Middle Eastern bad guys (should I make a TM symbol there?) is hunting them down based on a Army buddies photo of the team because one of them stole Al Gore's lock box or something.  They kill women and children in their ruthless hunt for the "lock box."  Until they get to Black Jack Bauer who has some issues with the fact his wife is taking the pill because he is totally messed up on PTSD.  Hijinx ensue.  Shots are fired.  A mole is suspected. 

We're twenty minutes in and the super smart former director has decided that the current head of CTU has to be a mole.  Naturally this leads to a climax 20 minutes later where she uses a TAZER ON HIM TO KEEP HIM FROM INTERFERING AS SHE HELPS BLACK JACK VIA SATELLITE FOOTAGE.  That was the point where I really wanted to tune out.  However, earlier in the episode, the young up and coming analyst tells the older established analyst that she's totally awesome because she is Edgar's cousin or niece or something and the older dude doesn't know who Edgar is.  Which is totally sad.  Everyone should remember Edgar's epic death scene as he ran through the sealed off CTU and Chloe had to watch him die of poison gas.  Edgar even got a silent clock.  Never forget.

Black Jack has to take his wife to safety with his brother the gang leader who he stole her from years ago when he decided to go straight and join the military.  (Because every black guy in a reputable profession had to get there by escaping the clutches of gang life epitomized by his brother/friend/father etc.)  The brother has to keep his girl Snookie in check because she's jealous of the ex girlfriend sister in law.  A betrayal is coming.

Seemingly completely unrelated to the other terrorists, there's a good looking white kid who yells at his girlfriend in the hallways of the high school.  He then gets a well meaning lecture from the wise teacher mentor figure that tells him yelling at a girl is never okay.  Then the good looking white kid tells him that she's a terrorist.  The teacher doesn't believe him because she isn't even Muslim.  She's like Armenian or something.  But because good looking white dude said she's a problem he has to be responsible and tell the principal.  Then later we see the not a terrorist terrorist Lolita slip out of class to answer a text.  She meets the teacher mentor dude behind the library stacks and tells him to settle down.  She's got this shit and they can make out then blow up the school.

Overall, the show likely could have been good... except they were trying too hard to fit every possible trope into one hour instead of letting the tension build organically.  The only thing missing was Black Jack yelling "Dammit!  We don't have time!" into his phone.

Honestly... I would have preferred to see them adapt this version of 24.

 

 

[generalzod]

I liked when Black Jack kept telling the homeless guy to calm down on the phone when the homeless guy was pretty calm in relaying the Army unit had been wiped out. 

[Crazydog7]

America fuck yeah. 

 

its frustrating yet not surprising that this show has or something like it has the following it does.  Yet again middle east bad, america good, black jack bauer kill everyone.  At least the people who are making this show know their audience and understand they don't have to worry about things like moral ambiguity or nuance. 

[Lord Varys]

It seems the writers cannot come up with anything else but play the Muslin/Middle-eastern terrorist card. How often did they do this already? I lost count.

The story got even less convincing in the second episode. Stealing money from a police precinct? Really? Why not ask the Rebecca's husband for money? Or his father? That guy looked like Joe Kennedy, and one would expect him to have stashed some cash in various safes.

Or why not have, you know, a lot of people there to take the madman with the stick into custody? I mean, lives are at stake here (again) so that guy should be expendable. Carter might want to save his life but Éowyn and her sidekick have no reason to do so.

Why is only the new CTU director under suspicion and never the heads of NSA and CIA who also knew about the deal? Are they somehow above all suspicion?

What irked me most about many seasons of 24 is the unbelievable 'I've to do this on my own' routine. The threats were more often than not actually sincere and dangerous enough for people not being able to handle it with a lot of people trying to figure things out. The idea that one guy assisted by some tech people with magical abilities will be able to resolve things was always stretching things.

Oh, and is it just me or does Jimmy Smits look as if really gained weight? I didn't notice that in 'Rogue One'.

[dbunting]

So you guys are watching a reboot of a show about terrorism where a agent almost single handedly saves the day every season, and you are surprised that the reboot has a guy chasing terrorists and almost single handedly saving the day? I mean, this is what 24 has always been so why would they make a reboot that was nothing like the original?

To me this makes perfect sense and introduces the lead in a way that ties in current/recent events. How many people thought about the blow back on seal team six members that actually killed Bin Laden? Do you not think that they would be a target for extremists to kill? Now, of course they had to add in some valuable information that they are after to add the side stories, and put them in hiding so you have a mole or a leak, again side stories.

Now, has it been great, no it hasn't, it has had a few too many clichés. Has it been tense entertaining and suspenseful, for me, yes. I have really enjoyed the first two episodes because I know what to expect and enjoy it.

[Rhom]

26 minutes ago, dbunting said:

So you guys are watching a reboot of a show about terrorism where a agent almost single handedly saves the day every season, and you are surprised that the reboot has a guy chasing terrorists and almost single handedly saving the day? I mean, this is what 24 has always been so why would they make a reboot that was nothing like the original?

To me this makes perfect sense and introduces the lead in a way that ties in current/recent events. How many people thought about the blow back on seal team six members that actually killed Bin Laden? Do you not think that they would be a target for extremists to kill? Now, of course they had to add in some valuable information that they are after to add the side stories, and put them in hiding so you have a mole or a leak, again side stories.

Now, has it been great, no it hasn't, it has had a few too many clichés. Has it been tense entertaining and suspenseful, for me, yes. I have really enjoyed the first two episodes because I know what to expect and enjoy it.

I knew what to expect, and I'm certainly not some sort of PC prude when it comes to the plot.  Thus far, there is no hint of nuclear or biological weapons so I count that as a positive.  However, I just feel like they jumped in too far into the deep end early with some of the classic 24 tropes.  Generally, the asshole bureaucrat CTU boss gets a few episodes to brood and make life miserable to the rogue analysts who are used to just doing whatever they want before they get tazered and stuck in a holding cell.    The badass field agent returning to CTU to side with Female Edgar would typically get introduced and have some sort of role before he swoops in to rescue the asshole CTU boss.

I have no problems with the action set pieces thus far.  They have all been typical 24 quality.  I figured somewhere along the way there would be some young black male vs police drama.  This felt a bit on the nose, however I'm pretty sure Jack has done exactly this and been picked up by police somewhere along the way as well.  It does feel like they have abandoned the concept of "real time" events already with the reboot though.  Certainly the original series had gotten away from even pretending to do this within the first few seasons, but the fact that he has gone from happily coming home from work (at noon?) to shooting up a police station in less than two hours does stretch the credibility of real time events even for 24.

Edit:  Will say that I didn't expect good looking white kid to have his skull crushed by the wise teacher mentor figure quite so soon.   

[Rhom]

And how long do we figure the show can go without bringing in the old nemesis the Russians?  With all the talk of Russian hacking lately and Jack being held by them, I figure somehow it will work its way in.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

I knew what to expect, and I'm certainly not some sort of PC prude when it comes to the plot.  Thus far, there is no hint of nuclear or biological weapons so I count that as a positive.  However, I just feel like they jumped in too far into the deep end early with some of the classic 24 tropes.  Generally, the asshole bureaucrat CTU boss gets a few episodes to brood and make life miserable to the rogue analysts who are used to just doing whatever they want before they get tazered and stuck in a holding cell.    The badass field agent returning to CTU to side with Female Edgar would typically get introduced and have some sort of role before he swoops in to rescue the asshole CTU boss.

I have no problems with the action set pieces thus far.  They have all been typical 24 quality.  I figured somewhere along the way there would be some young black male vs police drama.  This felt a bit on the nose, however I'm pretty sure Jack has done exactly this and been picked up by police somewhere along the way as well.  It does feel like they have abandoned the concept of "real time" events already with the reboot though.  Certainly the original series had gotten away from even pretending to do this within the first few seasons, but the fact that he has gone from happily coming home from work (at noon?) to shooting up a police station in less than two hours does stretch the credibility of real time events even for 24.

Edit:  Will say that I didn't expect good looking white kid to have his skull crushed by the wise teacher mentor figure quite so soon.   

Right, because these tropes are what 24 is as a show. Badass agent, underdog/under appreciated analyst and corrupt and or inept management at CTU. Then your flavor of the season politician and terrorist. To me that is what 24 always will be.

 

I also expected the kid to last a little longer, expected the brother and sister to kill the teacher and student.

 

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

And how long do we figure the show can go without bringing in the old nemesis the Russians?  With all the talk of Russian hacking lately and Jack being held by them, I figure somehow it will work its way in.

Season 2 if it makes it!

 

On a more serious note, who else would our enemies be? I mean, CTU is the central unit of the show. So, North Korea, China, Russia and random Muslim extremist are the logical bad guys. If this season came on and CTU was battling New Guinea terrorists would that be better?

[SpaceChampion]

This is like 30 years in the future now, should be Martian terrorists!

[Martini Sigil]

This show reminds me of the X Files insofar as when they both began, they were original, and exciting... and both of them should have ended after three seasons... Broadcast TV gets so little right, that when they have a good concept, they can't help themselves when they milk the shit out of it.

[Knight of Ashes]

Looks like Miranda Otto's playing a less interesting version of Alison, her character in Homeland.